Thoughts on “Donna’s Law?”

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  • MetalVendor

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    Interesting concept here. As someone with close friends suffering from mental illness (who I’ve had to confiscate firearms from for their own safety in the past) and someone who truly loves our 2nd Amendment rights and freedom, I can honestly say I’m torn here, but not totally opposed to this idea.

    Please refrain from expressing your opinions if you can’t even read the entire article... Curious to hear other BS members’ thoughts on this. https://www.wwltv.com/mobile/articl...list/289-a7a5bdfa-b237-443e-9e76-ede6723e33f1
     

    Tboy

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    I have kin that used a firearm to end his life. I can understand the draw to make a *simple* adjustment to create a law to protect someone else.

    But unfortunately it’s too slippery of a slope to start down. Good intentions at first, then made mandatory. You have to think about 20 steps of folks with *good intention”

    This is going to sound a bit harsh but folks bent on killing themsleves will do so with or without a firearm.

    There are already laws for someone without the mental capacity to realize what there doing. They can be committed or held for there own protection if they are suicidal.
     

    RaleighReloader

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    If a person can voluntarily add themselves to the list, and then voluntarily remove themselves from the list (albeit with a waiting period), then is it really going to work?

    I guess it would stop someone from impulsively going out and buying a gun in the heat of the moment, but a modicum of planning would get around this.

    Mike
     

    Danny Abear

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    10 or 12 years ago, a woman from Port Allen took the city bus to a BR gun range, rented a pistol, and shot herself with it; I don't think the law would have prevented this
     

    N4sir

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    There's a whole list of issues I can list that this law would raise.
    Really, I think her efforts would be better spent on a crusade to help ALL who suffer and think suicide is the answer no matter what method they choose to end their life. Why single out suicide by firearm? As said before, if someone wants to do it they will find another way.
     

    J.Ellis

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    If it’s voluntary to get on and off the list what’s the point? If you want to kill yourself with a gun don’t put yourself on the list.
    Donnas law, has good intentions, but as already pointed out it’s a slippery slope.
    The road to hell (or gun control) is paved with good intentions.
     

    Gator 45/70

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    Nope,Just liberal Hokie Pokie Lets cry a bucket of tears and in the end,Blame the gun!

    Dudes first reaction,Was it pills? Nope it was a a gun so the knee jerk reaction is lets do something to ban gun ownership.

    The smoke screen word here is ''voluntary'' that can be easily be amended to mandatory.
     

    RaleighReloader

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    Some other thoughts about this.

    I would have huge concerns about privacy. Who has access to this list? Where does it get maintained? NICS searches are done by the FBI, so one would assume that being placed on this list would make that information accessible nationally. What other uses might the government find for a list like this?

    And in that same vein ... would this information be protected by HIPAA? Now we're into the realm of medical data being used for non-medical purposes (ie. a gun purchase), and I wonder what slippery slope that sets up.

    On that note ... while I think this is well-intentioned, I would much rather focus on getting suicidal individuals the help they need, instead of focusing on guns. And I'd much rather focus on doing that through the mental health system, instead of making that a quasi-judicial function.

    Mike
     

    MetalVendor

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    All great points so far, y'all. Thanks. I find this whole topic/concept to be so interesting. Could something like this save a few lives? Sure, I'd think so. But, could it also open the floodgates to more regulation that we don't want? I also think so. This is a bit of a tough one for me to see 100% clearly yet, so all your thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated.

    RaleighReloader nailed it, this is a well-intended idea for sure, but we should focus on this issue through the mental health system. Too bad our mental health system is quite lackluster.
     

    Bangswitch

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    All great points so far, y'all. Thanks. I find this whole topic/concept to be so interesting. Could something like this save a few lives? Sure, I'd think so. But, could it also open the floodgates to more regulation that we don't want? I also think so. This is a bit of a tough one for me to see 100% clearly yet, so all your thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated.

    RaleighReloader nailed it, this is a well-intended idea for sure, but we should focus on this issue through the mental health system. Too bad our mental health system is quite lackluster.

    Bingo I have an in-law who has both mental deficiencies and major bipolar issues, her parents failed her miserably and the facilities she has been in have turned her into a science experiment. We are currently trying to take over her affairs so that she gets the care she deserves.
     

    buttanic

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    My brother killed himself with a gun. That did not change my opinion one iota that gun laws don't work. He was smart enough and determined enough to find another way.
     

    Gator 45/70

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    Some other thoughts about this.

    I would have huge concerns about privacy. Who has access to this list? Where does it get maintained? NICS searches are done by the FBI, so one would assume that being placed on this list would make that information accessible nationally. What other uses might the government find for a list like this?

    And in that same vein ... would this information be protected by HIPAA? Now we're into the realm of medical data being used for non-medical purposes (ie. a gun purchase), and I wonder what slippery slope that sets up.

    On that note ... while I think this is well-intentioned, I would much rather focus on getting suicidal individuals the help they need, instead of focusing on guns. And I'd much rather focus on doing that through the mental health system, instead of making that a quasi-judicial function.

    Mike

    Bingo and plus 10,000,Very well thought out and stated,I never considered the HIPPA act,Very valid point!
     

    RaleighReloader

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    As an aside ... this is why I oppose ALL red flag laws.

    Red flag laws do nothing to help a person in a crisis get the help they need. Instead, they're focused solely on "OMG GUNS!" A person in crisis is still left to flap in the wind while bureaucrats figure out how to extrajudicially confiscate private property -- without the due process that the Constitution affords us all.

    Even if the intention is good, the focus needs to be on the person and getting them the help they need. Otherwise, they're still out in the world and free to commit whatever acts of violence they may decide to commit.

    Mike
     

    Bangswitch

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    As an aside ... this is why I oppose ALL red flag laws.

    Red flag laws do nothing to help a person in a crisis get the help they need. Instead, they're focused solely on "OMG GUNS!" A person in crisis is still left to flap in the wind while bureaucrats figure out how to extrajudicially confiscate private property -- without the due process that the Constitution affords us all.

    Even if the intention is good, the focus needs to be on the person and getting them the help they need. Otherwise, they're still out in the world and free to commit whatever acts of violence they may decide to commit.

    Mike

    Funny thing is the same people who advocate the red flag/legalized theft likely oppose involuntary commitments. Sighting the same constitution. It’s all a game to those types.
     

    RaleighReloader

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    Funny thing is the same people who advocate the red flag/legalized theft likely oppose involuntary commitments. Sighting the same constitution. It’s all a game to those types.

    I haven't heard that argument, but I'm not surprised. It's easy to retreat to the extremes to try to make a point.

    Mental health isn't an "either/or" proposition (where a person either doesn't get help, or they get involuntarily committed). There's a whole spectrum of mental health services and treatments in the middle; individual and group therapy, etc. But these services aren't always easily accessible, especially at the intersection of mental health and law enforcement.

    (No slight is intended against law enforcement here; we simply, as a culture, haven't figured out how to get at-risk people the mental health services that we need, and some of them end up caught up in the judicial system, which is similarly not tooled to handle these complex issues.)

    Mike
     

    Expert684

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    My brother killed himself with a gun. That did not change my opinion one iota that gun laws don't work. He was smart enough and determined enough to find another way.

    Ironically I did too! We had no clue what so ever this was going to happen! Only in sorting through his house after did we find notes he had written over a period of years thinking about taking his life!
     

    DarcMac

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    Obviously, this woman was going to kill herself, one way or another. She was also anti-gun. It is entirely possible that Donna killed herself with a gun specifically to achieve some sort of anti-gun backlash. Sort of killed two birds with one .38, so to speak. In this situation, she literally had nothing to lose and everything to gain, from her perspective. If we reward that with any sort of anti-gun law, it encourages others to do the same, then the laws get more stringent. Its a slippery slope, as many have said. Despite the voluntary nature of the "list", that could easily change in the future.
     

    MetalVendor

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    Obviously, this woman was going to kill herself, one way or another. She was also anti-gun. It is entirely possible that Donna killed herself with a gun specifically to achieve some sort of anti-gun backlash. Sort of killed two birds with one .38, so to speak. In this situation, she literally had nothing to lose and everything to gain, from her perspective. If we reward that with any sort of anti-gun law, it encourages others to do the same, then the laws get more stringent. Its a slippery slope, as many have said. Despite the voluntary nature of the "list", that could easily change in the future.

    Interesting perspective. I hadn't even considered the possibly of her having that intention. Certainly seems plausible.
     

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