It Took Two Months and Nearly a Million Dollars to Save an Unvaccinated 6-Year-Old

Bangswitch · Mar 12, 2019

340six said:
I have a very very healty never ever sick vaccinated Autistic Son.
Did you see that we have tons of cost to vaccinate and quarantine illegals. Think the number is over 2000 now. Laura Ingraham started reporting this say a year ago that they were bringing in things that were lo g gone in the 48 states many many years ago.
Like her show and she is not bad either.

Did you see a link between the vaccination and the symptoms of autism?

One arguement against the notion that the vaccines cause autism is that Autism tends to begin to show symptoms around the same time frame as the 1year vaccines.

Did you see a sudden change in behavior? I know that’s a fairly personal question. I appogize if I’m crossing a line.

340six · Mar 12, 2019

Nope no change. I know the statement is way over used by another group but I am going with. He was born that way. I personally think that is the case and that before 1 year any person under a year is not developed enough to show one way or the other. IE as they grow up you see that they are different not that they care changing.
There is also one person here who posted his son is also. So hope he chimes in as well.
He openly posted that his son was in the past
My wife and I were talking about studies last night of all types depend on who does them. And most are a,waste of money given the schools that should have been used for doing real things other than a,study.

Bangswitch · Mar 12, 2019

340six said:
Nope no change. I know the statement is way over used by another group but I am going with. He was born that way. I personally think that is the case and that before 1 year any person under a year is not developed enough to show one way or the other. IE as they grow up you see that they are different not that they care changing.
There is also one person here who posted his son is also. So hope he chimes in as well.
He openly posted that his son was in the past
My wife and I were talking about studies last night of all types depend on who does them. And most are a,waste of money given the schools that should have been used for doing real things other than a,study.

No doubt. The old saying about numbers never lie is true, but people definitely manipulate numbers to fit an agenda.

340six · Mar 12, 2019

Funny story. After Katrina my youngest sons school was messed up so they had the whole school go to another one. So his demgrapic changed for the rest of the school year. But it was on record.
Tulane was doing a study and got names and address from that.
I had down time to to heath issuies unlike others who work for a living if ya get my drift. Once there my wife and I an 2 maybe 3 other coupes who were they only ones in the group who were middle class or upper middle class. So the outcome was already set to get the results they wanted. Yes we may have put a little spin on it but not enough to change the majority's
We were the minority so to say. And when I stated that they were upset that I said so. I looked it up and showed them what they ment and they stated I was using that word out of context. Yes I am that kinda guy.

Gator 45/70 · Mar 12, 2019

As a kid I built up my immune system by eating my buggers.....Hey it seems to work!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/health/immune-system-allergies.html

thperez1972 · Mar 12, 2019

Bangswitch said:
While I agree the incoherent twice removed accounts of people without a clue are dangerous, but there are some smart people out there saying their is a risk of prolonged adverse side effects when it comes to the early shots. We were concerned with our first child and I remember talking for quite a while with a long time friend who happens to be a published pediatrican who specializes in immune deficiencies, and my wife and I came to the conclusion that the shots had much lower risk of long term complications than not getting them.

I agree with weighing the risks of both getting and not getting the shots. In the article, the kid did not get the shots although the article did not give the reason. It seems reasonable that the risks to the kid of not getting the shots far outweighed the risks of getting the shots. Hindsight suggests that. Any complications from the shots are likely to be less than near death. So the parents gambled and lost. After spending almost $1M of someone else's money, it's time to admit they were wrong in not getting the shots by getting the shots. Or the consequences of their actions should rest fully on their shoulders. I'm not saying the shots should be mandatory. I'm saying it it turns out the shots are a smaller risk, get the shots or you're on your own.

Bangswitch · Mar 12, 2019

thperez1972 said:
I agree with weighing the risks of both getting and not getting the shots. In the article, the kid did not get the shots although the article did not give the reason. It seems reasonable that the risks to the kid of not getting the shots far outweighed the risks of getting the shots. Hindsight suggests that. Any complications from the shots are likely to be less than near death. So the parents gambled and lost. After spending almost $1M of someone else's money, it's time to admit they were wrong in not getting the shots by getting the shots. Or the consequences of their actions should rest fully on their shoulders. I'm not saying the shots should be mandatory. I'm saying it it turns out the shots are a smaller risk, get the shots or you're on your own.

If in 20 years they found a link between the tettinus shot and some type of illness say cancer, should the parents cover the treatment? Being a GOOD parent is hard, and making life altering mistakes is easier than it sounds. Hindsight is 20/20.

If I develop angina should the amount of visits to McDonalds vs visits to the gym be analyzed?

If I leave the house and push the button on my visor to close the garage knowing thieves are constantly scanning and spoofing garage door openers to break in and steal, and I come home to an empty house should I even call my agent?

If you are drinking and driving wreck and total-out a strangers car, the insurance company will drop you but not before buying someone a new car.

I get it negligence cost money which affects everyone else’s premiums at the end of the day, but I think you are stepping off into draconian territory.

thperez1972 · Mar 12, 2019

Bangswitch said:
If in 20 years they found a link between the tettinus shot and some type of illness say cancer, should the parents cover the treatment? Being a GOOD parent is hard, and making life altering mistakes is easier than it sounds. Hindsight is 20/20.

If a link is found in 20 years, the parents should not have to cover the costs for cancer treatment. But until this fantasy becomes reality, it had no bearing on the situation today.

Bangswitch said:
If I develop angina should the amount of visits to McDonalds vs visits to the gym be analyzed?

Going to or not going to McDonalds does nothing to vaccinate someone against angina.

Bangswitch said:
If I leave the house and push the button on my visor to close the garage knowing thieves are constantly scanning and spoofing garage door openers to break in and steal, and I come home to an empty house should I even call my agent?

Not a health issue.

Bangswitch said:
If you are drinking and driving wreck and total-out a strangers car, the insurance company will drop you but not before buying someone a new car.

Not a health issue.

Bangswitch said:
I get it negligence cost money which affects everyone else’s premiums at the end of the day, but I think you are stepping off into draconian territory.

No, I'm not. Draconian territory would be saying non-vaccinated kids should not be covered for medical procedures stemming from the condition they were not vaccinated against. What I'm offering is quite reasonable. It allows for the parent to be correct in their decision to not vaccinate their kid. But if they are found to be wrong with their decision and they continue to choose to be wrong, they foot the bill rather than burdening the rest of the system. If their decision burdens the system, they can choose between not burdening the system again and reimbursing the system. The parents have a choice before their kid gets sick and they have a choice after their kid gets sick.

Bangswitch · Mar 13, 2019

thperez1972 said:
If a link is found in 20 years, the parents should not have to cover the costs for cancer treatment. But until this fantasy becomes reality, it had no bearing on the situation today.

Going to or not going to McDonalds does nothing to vaccinate someone against angina.

Not a health issue.

Not a health issue.

No, I'm not. Draconian territory would be saying non-vaccinated kids should not be covered for medical procedures stemming from the condition they were not vaccinated against. What I'm offering is quite reasonable. It allows for the parent to be correct in their decision to not vaccinate their kid. But if they are found to be wrong with their decision and they continue to choose to be wrong, they foot the bill rather than burdening the rest of the system. If their decision burdens the system, they can choose between not burdening the system again and reimbursing the system. The parents have a choice before their kid gets sick and they have a choice after their kid gets sick.

You are missing my point. Some times we make dumb decisions. Some are seemingly benign, others wildly irresponsible, but that’s partly what insurance is there for. Denying a claim because someone was a bonehead is quite the slippery slope. Soon no claims of any type would be getting paid because everyone makes boneheaded moves at some point.

And don’t say this is different because it’s health insurance because insurance is insurance. Ever heard of professional liability or general liability? What about Employment Practices Insurance? It is quite literally designed to protect a company and its principals in the event the company makes some boneheaded moves. Did I mention one of my duties at work has to do with insurances?

Look I get it. It’s crap that parents make really bad decisions that cost their children all kinds of hurt and discomfort, then the rest of us indirectly shoulder the burden, but I don’t believe your solution is the right one.

thperez1972 · Mar 13, 2019

Bangswitch said:
You are missing my point. Some times we make dumb decisions. Some are seemingly benign, others wildly irresponsible, but that’s partly what insurance is there for. Denying a claim because someone was a bonehead is quite the slippery slope. Soon no claims of any type would be getting paid because everyone makes boneheaded moves at some point.

I'm not missing your point. Yes, people make mistakes. I'm saying the insurance will cover the claim as long as the mistake is recognized and corrected. If the mistake is recognized and ignored, the claim should be denied. And insurance is there to help you with unexpected circumstances. An unvaccinated child catching the condition for which he was not vaccinated for is not an unexpected circumstance. But, again, I'm not advocating denying the claim for making the mistake of not vaccinating your kid. I'm saying the claim should be denied if, after catching the condition the vaccine would have prevented, the parents choose to keep their kid unvaccinated.

There's no slippery slope. There's not "all claims will be denied." The scope of this is focused on vaccines. You make whatever choice you want to make for your kids. If your choice burdens me and you would like my assistance, that assistance comes with the condition you take the necessary steps to decrease the chances you will need to ask for my help again. If you choose to not take those steps, you are welcome to not ask for my assistance. There are no consequences for not taking steps to prevent the situation. But there are consequences for not taking steps to prevent the situation a second time. What you want is consequence free choices. That doesn't exist nor should it exist.

thperez1972 · Mar 13, 2019

Bangswitch said:
And don’t say this is different because it’s health insurance because insurance is insurance. Ever heard of professional liability or general liability? What about Employment Practices Insurance? It is quite literally designed to protect a company and its principals in the event the company makes some boneheaded moves. Did I mention one of my duties at work has to do with insurances?

Look I get it. It’s crap that parents make really bad decisions that cost their children all kinds of hurt and discomfort, then the rest of us indirectly shoulder the burden, but I don’t believe your solution is the right one.

It's different because the scope in limited to vaccines. I'm not saying if your kid breaks his arm playing football he should not play again to keep from breaking his arm again or insurance won't cover the second break. And I'm not saying parents must get their kids vaccinated.

If a professional repeatedly makes the same preventable mistakes over and over, will the insurance company continue to cover the claims or will they eventually deny him coverage?

Troedoff · Mar 13, 2019

I am the draconian one. I can't stand insurance, or the system. People should have to pay for, and live with the decisions they make. Big or small, mistakes are mistakes, and no one seems to be able to recognize their's anymore, but are quick to point out someone else's.

RaleighReloader · Mar 13, 2019

thperez1972 said:
And insurance is there to help you with unexpected circumstances. An unvaccinated child catching the condition for which he was not vaccinated for is not an unexpected circumstance. But, again, I'm not advocating denying the claim for making the mistake of not vaccinating your kid. I'm saying the claim should be denied if, after catching the condition the vaccine would have prevented, the parents choose to keep their kid unvaccinated.

I'm not sure that I agree with this being a "mistake." Not vaccinating one's child is a very deliberate choice. And that's fine ... but to then expect someone else to underwrite the consequences of that decision (especially when the scientific community almost unanimously agrees that it's batshit crazy to not vaccinate) is an extraordinary circumstance that falls well outside of normal insurance underwriting.

I worked in the insurance industry for a few years but never on the health insurance side of things, so I don't know what latitude health insurance providers have to deny a claim caused by the deliberate choice to not vaccinate. I'm also leery of denying a child access to medical care because of their parents' stupidity. That said, it doesn't seem right for the rest of us to shrug our shoulders and chalk this up to "personal choice."

Mike

thperez1972 · Mar 13, 2019

RaleighReloader said:
I'm not sure that I agree with this being a "mistake." Not vaccinating one's child is a very deliberate choice. And that's fine ... but to then expect someone else to underwrite the consequences of that decision (especially when the scientific community almost unanimously agrees that it's batshit crazy to not vaccinate) is an extraordinary circumstance that falls well outside of normal insurance underwriting.

I worked in the insurance industry for a few years but never on the health insurance side of things, so I don't know what latitude health insurance providers have to deny a claim caused by the deliberate choice to not vaccinate. I'm also leery of denying a child access to medical care because of their parents' stupidity. That said, it doesn't seem right for the rest of us to shrug our shoulders and chalk this up to "personal choice."

Mike

A mistake is "an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong." The child almost died as a result of the parents' decision. Unless that was the parents' intention, I'd suggest they made the wrong choice. Or a bad choice. I don't think the label means much. The bottom line is the situation was preventable. Either way, the child should get medical care. The issue is who will pay for it.

Bangswitch · Mar 13, 2019

thperez1972 said:
I'm not missing your point. Yes, people make mistakes. I'm saying the insurance will cover the claim as long as the mistake is recognized and corrected. If the mistake is recognized and ignored, the claim should be denied. And insurance is there to help you with unexpected circumstances. An unvaccinated child catching the condition for which he was not vaccinated for is not an unexpected circumstance. But, again, I'm not advocating denying the claim for making the mistake of not vaccinating your kid. I'm saying the claim should be denied if, after catching the condition the vaccine would have prevented, the parents choose to keep their kid unvaccinated.

There's no slippery slope. There's not "all claims will be denied." The scope of this is focused on vaccines. You make whatever choice you want to make for your kids. If your choice burdens me and you would like my assistance, that assistance comes with the condition you take the necessary steps to decrease the chances you will need to ask for my help again. If you choose to not take those steps, you are welcome to not ask for my assistance. There are no consequences for not taking steps to prevent the situation. But there are consequences for not taking steps to prevent the situation a second time. What you want is consequence free choices. That doesn't exist nor should it exist.

thperez1972 said:
It's different because the scope in limited to vaccines. I'm not saying if your kid breaks his arm playing football he should not play again to keep from breaking his arm again or insurance won't cover the second break. And I'm not saying parents must get their kids vaccinated.

If a professional repeatedly makes the same preventable mistakes over and over, will the insurance company continue to cover the claims or will they eventually deny him coverage?

Ok I get where you are coming from, it’s like bailing out a family member from self inflicted problems. Except specially as it relates to shots. That sort of thing never stays limited to a specific scope, because reasonable people get talked into a slow creep with reasonable arguments and before you know it personal freedoms are gone.

I actually have bought into a similar concept. My company sponsored insurance is so expensive my wife and I chose to swap to MediShare. They don’t cover all kinds of stuff. MediShare is a Christian based organization so if your claim is caused by something that violates the core values they espouse they don’t cover it. I chose to go that route because I knew what I was getting myself into and I’m currently saving $1,000 per month this way.

thperez1972 · Mar 13, 2019

Bangswitch said:
Ok I get where you are coming from, it’s like bailing out a family member from self inflicted problems. Except specially as it relates to shots. That sort of thing never stays limited to a specific scope, because reasonable people get talked into a slow creep with reasonable arguments and before you know it personal freedoms are gone.

I actually have bought into a similar concept. My company sponsored insurance is so expensive my wife and I chose to swap to MediShare. They don’t cover all kinds of stuff. MediShare is a Christian based organization so if your claim is caused by something that violates the core values they espouse they don’t cover it. I chose to go that route because I knew what I was getting myself into and I’m currently saving $1,000 per month this way.

Yep...and I'm willing to compromise and say the first one is free even if they don't get vaccinated. But if there's a second time, it's out of pocket for the family.

Bangswitch · Mar 13, 2019

thperez1972 said:
Yep...and I'm willing to compromise and say the first one is free even if they don't get vaccinated. But if there's a second time, it's out of pocket for the family.

If that’s the rules from the jump I don’t necessarily have issues. But that’s not how it works. Heath Insurance is the biggest scam running. Last year we spent nearly $20,000 just on premium for my family of four meanwhile they may have paid out 1,500-2,000 in claims. Plus we spent an additional probably $1,000 in co-pays. Why would anyone in my shoes voluntarily give up rights to a potential claim without a major reduction in premium? Don’t forget sometimes shots are inadvertently skipped. Say my kids pediatrican missed tetanus and mumps. And we are really unlucky and my child gets one. That’s our one oops, but we are really unlucky still don’t know the second one is missed and end up getting the other one too. I’m not sure your system would be fair. I’m not doctor so I do rely heavily on doctors to make sure I’m making the right choices. I’m lucky to have a friend who is an expert in this particular field not everyone is so lucky. Also spending a lot of time in rural areas, I’ve come to realize the standard of care is not remotely the same. Who is at fault then?

RaleighReloader · Mar 13, 2019

Bangswitch said:
Heath Insurance is the biggest scam running. Last year we spent nearly $20,000 just on premium for my family of four meanwhile they may have paid out 1,500-2,000 in claims. Plus we spent an additional probably $1,000 in co-pays.

I hope this doesn't happen ... but let's imagine that a member of your family requires $250,000 in health care next year. Will health insurance still be a scam if they cover that?

Mike

Bangswitch · Mar 13, 2019

RaleighReloader said:
I hope this doesn't happen ... but let's imagine that a member of your family requires $250,000 in health care next year. Will health insurance still be a scam if they cover that?

Mike

No the big scam is my company plan showed a loss in year 12 for the first time ever and our plan took a 50% hike in year 13. That’s the scam. Year 14 is about to start and we are getting a 5% reduction. I’m not uninsured I just chose an option that lends itself to prudent use which helps keep the plan cost lower. If we required monthly prescriptions or we were in another phase in life my current choice may not be the best option. But I currently have a lower max out of pocket than my company plan and I pay $1,000 less each month. If you feel I don’t know what I’m talking about please feel free to PM me, but I’m the one who negotiates with our insurance companies.

Additionally I would like to modify my point health insurance in its current incarnation is a scam, but it’s not just the insurance itself it’s the whole industry. When you can get the exact same care for cheaper if you just pay 100% out of pocket, than your portion after Insurance that’s a scam. That happens every day of the week.

Don’t get me wrong I’m no communist doctors need to make money, health insurance companies need to make money, but what we had before The Afordable Care Act was a soup sandwich and what we have now resembles a collision of a train, a airliner and a cruise ship, in the Washington belt way at rush hour.

thperez1972 · Mar 13, 2019

Judge won't let unvaccinated children back in school

CHESTNUT RIDGE, NY - A federal judge, citing an "unprecedented measles outbreak" in suburban Rockland County, New York, has denied a request to let 44 unvaccinated children return to school.

Parents of students in the Green Meadow Waldorf School in Chestnut Ridge have sued the county health department. They say none of the school's excluded children have contracted measles amid the county's outbreak, which started last fall.

According to the Journal News, their lawyer, Michael Sussman, criticized the judge's decision Tuesday to deny a temporary injunction that would have allowed the children back in classes.

On the same day, pediatric organizations expressed support for state legislation that would allow minors to get vaccinated without parental consent.

The legislation's Democratic sponsors say too many parents believe unsupported online claims that vaccines are unsafe.

http://www.wbrz.com/news/judge-won-t-let-unvaccinated-children-back-in-school

It Took Two Months and Nearly a Million Dollars to Save an Unvaccinated 6-Year-Old

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