New Zealand mosque attack

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  • Magdump

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    070d31c7e80e2c339a68525b2a05f07f.jpg



    I’ll just leave this right here..


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    AZ2VET

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    Just seen a video stating that anyone caught in New Zealand having the video of the shooting will be prosecuted and sent to prison for 10 years and add 4 years if they distributed it. But yet footage of JFK and RFK are all over.
     

    Emperor

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    Just seen a video stating that anyone caught in New Zealand having the video of the shooting will be prosecuted and sent to prison for 10 years and add 4 years if they distributed it. But yet footage of JFK and RFK are all over.

    I don't know the laws of New Zealand, but it is a democratically elected system, so how can their government make such a ridiculous claim without some war declaration or martial law? If their government can proclaim such an ad-hoc law and enforce it, those kiwi's live in a ********!

    https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/government-in-new-zealand/

    Besides, it was a link?!?
     

    Old School

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    Looks like it’s been removed from the link on this topic


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    Magdump

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    Looks like it’s been removed from the link on this topic


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    It’s still up. You have to click on ‘play video’ under the NSFL warning...
    Not Safe For Life...really?
    New Zealand Prime Minister says new gun laws in 10 days.
    NZ public as well as the entire planet seeing an entirely new level of censorship.
    And there was a source that briefly stated Podesta was in NZ a week ago? Kinda off the wall but that’s how these things get... lots of confusion and dead people. Remember Mandalay Bay?
    So, really looks like somebody is either following an agenda or maybe just seizing the opportunities that a good crisis has to offer?
    I too would like to read his manifesto, now that certain media outlets have picked over it and commented on it. Also, there may be more answers than the media has to offer. I’ve been trying to imagine what other outlandish claims the media and lefties will come up with next. As it stands, if you’re a white male, you had something to do with it...
     
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    LACamper

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    I have to wonder... (random thoughts wandering around the head, feel free to agree or refute).
    the media are mainly physical cowards. (agree? or not?). They can attack Christians without fear of retribution (that whole turn the other cheek thing... ). Jihadist are another story. There are enough jihadist out there that are crazy enough to do what they are told. Does the media side with Muslims out of fear? Let's face it, if the media attacks Muslims outright, then tv studios will suddenly become a target...

    the Catholic church leadership is ticking me off. I went back to the church a few years ago. Our old (80 year old) priest had no fear of speaking out and saying what needed to be said. Our new priest (cool guy, don't get me wrong- former AF nuke silo guy even!) says what he's told, which is usually nothing in relation to anything in world events. I know they fear losing their nonprofit status but I so want them to take a stand!
     

    RaleighReloader

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    I have to wonder... (random thoughts wandering around the head, feel free to agree or refute).
    the media are mainly physical cowards. (agree? or not?). They can attack Christians without fear of retribution (that whole turn the other cheek thing... ). Jihadist are another story. There are enough jihadist out there that are crazy enough to do what they are told. Does the media side with Muslims out of fear? Let's face it, if the media attacks Muslims outright, then tv studios will suddenly become a target...

    the Catholic church leadership is ticking me off. I went back to the church a few years ago. Our old (80 year old) priest had no fear of speaking out and saying what needed to be said. Our new priest (cool guy, don't get me wrong- former AF nuke silo guy even!) says what he's told, which is usually nothing in relation to anything in world events. I know they fear losing their nonprofit status but I so want them to take a stand!

    I haven't heard of any attacks on the Christian religion as a whole. Yes, the Catholic church is getting roundly crapped on for its handling of the systemic pedophilia within the church's ranks, among other deeply rooted problems ... but that's not a condemnation of individual Catholics that find comfort within that faith system. And frankly, the Catholic church deserves it ... shielding pedophiles from justice is inexcusable, in my books.

    So it is with the Catholic church and pedophilia, and so too is it with Muslims and the concept of "jihad." So-called Muslims that would commit acts of violence against non-Muslims under the auspices of "jihad" are a fringe minority (like the Catholic priest pedophiles) that have contorted a religion to suit their psychotic ends.

    The average Muslim is just like the average Catholic, Baptist, Episcopalian, Buddhist, Hindi, or anyone else: just trying to make a living and support their family, pay their taxes and have a little left at the end of the day for some fun and relaxation. The Muslims I've known have all been wonderful people that are as kind and charitable as anyone else in the community. There's really no great "truth" beyond that.

    Mike
     

    jdindadell

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    I watched the vid, pretty extreme...

    The shooter (if that is his voice) did not seem overly worked up, so he must have been planning this quite a bit.

    The doodles on the guns seem strange to me, must have something to do with his state of mind. Obviously not playing with a full deck, mentally normal people don't usually go on shooting sprees.

    His ar jammed...
     

    Bangswitch

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    I haven't heard of any attacks on the Christian religion as a whole. Yes, the Catholic church is getting roundly crapped on for its handling of the systemic pedophilia within the church's ranks, among other deeply rooted problems ... but that's not a condemnation of individual Catholics that find comfort within that faith system. And frankly, the Catholic church deserves it ... shielding pedophiles from justice is inexcusable, in my books.

    So it is with the Catholic church and pedophilia, and so too is it with Muslims and the concept of "jihad." So-called Muslims that would commit acts of violence against non-Muslims under the auspices of "jihad" are a fringe minority (like the Catholic priest pedophiles) that have contorted a religion to suit their psychotic ends.

    The average Muslim is just like the average Catholic, Baptist, Episcopalian, Buddhist, Hindi, or anyone else: just trying to make a living and support their family, pay their taxes and have a little left at the end of the day for some fun and relaxation. The Muslims I've known have all been wonderful people that are as kind and charitable as anyone else in the community. There's really no great "truth" beyond that.

    Mike

    I will preface everything said from here as elementary school version of Church doctrine. I am no theologian but I do understand the tenants of my faith and all descriptions will be expressed as facts. If you don’t like that tough. Choose not to believe, it doesn’t rob me of a thing.

    There is BIGdifference between any denomination of Christianity and Islam. Devout Christians are not told to wage war on all nonbelievers. Convert or die is not a part of any Christian doctrine that I’m aware of. And the founder of the faith was not a child raping murder either. He was a self sacrificing servant-leader who broke no law of man or God, and allowed himself to be executed as a common criminal. Additionally he rebuked a follower who removed the ear of a soldier that arrested him and healed the soldier on the spot.

    Regardless what you want to call Jhadist, radicalized or devout, Islam’s founding was in waging war on other humans, Jesus waged a supernatural war in effort conquere death. Regardless of any claims made concerning the Old Testament where the Israelites conquered fortified cities Jesus brought a new Covenant between God and mankind. The Quran and the Old Testament are very similar. However it was written by one man between 609-632AD, long after the Bible was Assymbled by a team of saints including books dating back to 1400BC through 68AD.

    The key to all this is how you get to heaven. Christiananity by in large says Jesus is the answer (some have some ill-convinced notions about works getting you there but Jesus is the key), Islam however requires works often dieing for your faith. Jesus told the criminal next to him on the cross, *Today you will be with me in paridise*. Not sure that he was able to climb down and do some good stuff before he died but I’m guessing not.

    Now which sounds like a religion to follow one where the founder dies for you or you die for the founder? Ok on to my thoughts the above was mostly doctrinal (God forgive me for any errors).

    Islam was founded by a man who hated Jews but basically stole portions of the Torah to use as Sharia, and proceeded to wage Jhad on all who didn’t convert. Eventually Mohammad laid siege to the Vatican, and the Pope begged for help from the European believers. This what is commonly referred to as the Crusades. I’m not really sure how this sort of founding can translate into a religion of peace and tolerance.

    After the revolutionary war the French eventually stopped protecting our merchant ships and they began to be raided and captured by Muslims. Upon this realization Thomas Jefferson got a copy of the Quran and read it. He quickly realized that there was no point in trying to bargain with them because they believe God gave them permission to do so. I’m not sure, but I don’t recall any historically significant Christians who capture people in the name of Jesus. Wait scratch that. The reformation was pretty aweful.

    Additionally the atrocities that happened during the reformation are in stark contrast with the teachings of Jesus. The atrocities that still take place in the name of Mohammad seem to carry out the Sharia.
     
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    Emperor

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    If people quit watching they will quit posting this crap

    I don't believe that. It's all younger people do almost entirely now. Is it all blood and gore vids they relentlessly watch almost every waking minute? Don't know. Hope not. But let me state another point about this particular video:

    First and foremost, I didn't really want to watch it. My thought initially was; great, more pictures of death and destruction. Then I realized this whacko took it to a whole new level which was, real time filming of the actual attack. What's the difference? The difference for me and only speaking for myself, I wanted to see if I could learn anything from it if I was ever in a situation where another whacko attacked a place where I might be. Which is why I posed the question in my first response to this thread. No one actually responded to that here, which is fine; but really, what am I supposed to do?

    We have seen the pictures and videos of lawful gun owners carrying AR's into coffee shops, on the streets, etc. Okay, fine. They are exercising their Rights. But I don't know whether or not the guy is simply a douche, or a potential murderer?!? Again; in this whacko's video he walks right toward and past two people getting in/out of a car. They couldn't have been 10 yards away as he turns to go into the courtyard of that mosque. He's carrying two rifles (though one was a shotgun), and several magazines. I assume he was dressed like a tacticool ninja too, by the gloves (which is all we could see). If he decides to shoot those first two people, they are history. They either didn't see him coming, were oblivious to him, or were just not thinking this was odd looking to begin with. They were lucky! Unless they were non-Arabs in the eyes of this whacko; or, he didn't wan't to alert others inside by starting the shooting outside. Don't know.

    We are constantly being told (by the phony media and abhorrent politicians), how common these mass shooting are and are becoming. Not true according to statistics, but what media stooges or pathetic politicians care about facts? Nonetheless, I see this video, I see what is happening in real time, and I think about what I would do. What could I learn from it for myself. That's it! My friends and I are not talking about it, my co-workers are not talking about it, and the news is only telling me their takes on it, which is worthless and meaningless to me.

    Those of us that know what a rifle can do know pretty damn well, if you get hit with one you may not survive the first shot much less a barrage. We also know that those things can really reach out and touch.

    Just yesterday, I was at the St. Patrick's Day parade in Metairie. People were popping balloons near me. Once I saw them doing it I didn't think twice about it, but when it first happened; I won't lie, I was instantly on alert. Paranoia? Maybe. Aware of my surroundings? Most assuredly! I was there with my 14 year old. He was near me, but not within arms reach. If another whacko here starts sending lead into my area, what am I supposed to do? Leave my kid and haul ass to save myself? No F'n way. So, based on the multitude of various situation that could be present, I can only try to adapt. If this whacko's video helps me in my research for my only personal reasons which have nothing to do with his, I'm not a bad person for watching it.
     

    Bangswitch

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    I don't believe that. It's all younger people do almost entirely now. Is it all blood and gore vids they relentlessly watch almost every waking minute? Don't know. Hope not. But let me state another point about this particular video:

    First and foremost, I didn't really want to watch it. My thought initially was; great, more pictures of death and destruction. Then I realized this whacko took it to a whole new level which was, real time filming of the actual attack. What's the difference? The difference for me and only speaking for myself, I wanted to see if I could learn anything from it if I was ever in a situation where another whacko attacked a place where I might be. Which is why I posed the question in my first response to this thread. No one actually responded to that here, which is fine; but really, what am I supposed to do?

    We have seen the pictures and videos of lawful gun owners carrying AR's into coffee shops, on the streets, etc. Okay, fine. They are exercising their Rights. But I don't know whether or not the guy is simply a douche, or a potential murderer?!? Again; in this whacko's video he walks right toward and past two people getting in/out of a car. They couldn't have been 10 yards away as he turns to go into the courtyard of that mosque. He's carrying two rifles (though one was a shotgun), and several magazines. I assume he was dressed like a tacticool ninja too, by the gloves (which is all we could see). If he decides to shoot those first two people, they are history. They either didn't see him coming, were oblivious to him, or were just not thinking this was odd looking to begin with. They were lucky! Unless they were non-Arabs in the eyes of this whacko; or, he didn't wan't to alert others inside by starting the shooting outside. Don't know.

    We are constantly being told (by the phony media and abhorrent politicians), how common these mass shooting are and are becoming. Not true according to statistics, but what media stooges or pathetic politicians care about facts? Nonetheless, I see this video, I see what is happening in real time, and I think about what I would do. What could I learn from it for myself. That's it! My friends and I are not talking about it, my co-workers are not talking about it, and the news is only telling me their takes on it, which is worthless and meaningless to me.

    Those of us that know what a rifle can do know pretty damn well, if you get hit with one you may not survive the first shot much less a barrage. We also know that those things can really reach out and touch.

    Just yesterday, I was at the St. Patrick's Day parade in Metairie. People were popping balloons near me. Once I saw them doing it I didn't think twice about it, but when it first happened; I won't lie, I was instantly on alert. Paranoia? Maybe. Aware of my surroundings? Most assuredly! I was there with my 14 year old. He was near me, but not within arms reach. If another whacko here starts sending lead into my area, what am I supposed to do? Leave my kid and haul ass to save myself? No F'n way. So, based on the multitude of various situation that could be present, I can only try to adapt. If this whacko's video helps me in my research for my only personal reasons which have nothing to do with his, I'm not a bad person for watching it.

    I watched it listening for a motive, because like you said the media is not to be trusted. It appears based on the comments below the video it was likely as much racist as anti-Islam. It’s funny by the way you hear it portrayed in the media Americans hold a patent on racism. However in my experience the rest of the world are much worse than we are.
     

    RaleighReloader

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    Thanks for the lengthy reply, @BangSwitch.

    My degree is in history but I did not specialize in world religions, so most of the arguments that I'd present would be unscholarly or third hand.

    A good friend of mine is a Muslim Cleric, and his definition of Jihad has nothing to do with violence towards non-believers. In his opinion Jihad is the personal struggle that every Muslim wages against the vices that would steer that person away from his/her religion. He is one of the most non-violent people that I know of any religion, and he eschews violence to the point that he won't even harm an insect. One person does not define the religion, of course, but his sentiments have been far more consistent with my experience of other Muslims than this notion that so many people have that Islam is a religion of violence, and that it espouses acts of violence against non-believers.

    I am more qualified to speak about Jefferson -- one of America's great conundrums. It's hard to give Jefferson much credit for tolerance and benevolence given his proclivity to wage war against America's First Nations people. He did, however, quote John Locke in his personal notes regarding tolerance towards Pagans, Jews and Muslims, and his Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (which he penned) was a pretty affirmative expression of this. And you're right that Jefferson is known to have owned a copy of the Qu'ran, but there's a good bit of scholarly debate about why he did.

    And you have to admit that it's curious that we're debating how peaceful Islam is, after fifty of its adherents were murdered in a Mosque by a white ethno-nationalist. No sane Christian would equate that murderer's actions to anything in Christianity any more than a sane Muslim equating the 9/11 terrorist attacks to Islam. These are fringe elements.

    Mike
     

    machinedrummer

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    Nobody’s head catches on fire when people in China are murdered with swords or run over with vehicles in other countries. No call for a ban on swords or cars over here. Only when a gun is used. This has nothing to do with saving lives or caring about people. It’s about removing the only thing standing between what’s left of freedom and total control of a out of control gubment. These other countries don’t have a 2nd amendment and look how quickly they can disarm their subjects.
     

    Bangswitch

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    Thanks for the lengthy reply, @BangSwitch.

    My degree is in history but I did not specialize in world religions, so most of the arguments that I'd present would be unscholarly or third hand.

    A good friend of mine is a Muslim Cleric, and his definition of Jihad has nothing to do with violence towards non-believers. In his opinion Jihad is the personal struggle that every Muslim wages against the vices that would steer that person away from his/her religion. He is one of the most non-violent people that I know of any religion, and he eschews violence to the point that he won't even harm an insect. One person does not define the religion, of course, but his sentiments have been far more consistent with my experience of other Muslims than this notion that so many people have that Islam is a religion of violence, and that it espouses acts of violence against non-believers.

    I am more qualified to speak about Jefferson -- one of America's great conundrums. It's hard to give Jefferson much credit for tolerance and benevolence given his proclivity to wage war against America's First Nations people. He did, however, quote John Locke in his personal notes regarding tolerance towards Pagans, Jews and Muslims, and his Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (which he penned) was a pretty affirmative expression of this. And you're right that Jefferson is known to have owned a copy of the Qu'ran, but there's a good bit of scholarly debate about why he did.

    And you have to admit that it's curious that we're debating how peaceful Islam is, after fifty of its adherents were murdered in a Mosque by a white ethno-nationalist. No sane Christian would equate that murderer's actions to anything in Christianity any more than a sane Muslim equating the 9/11 terrorist attacks to Islam. These are fringe elements.

    Mike

    Couple things:

    1: The *Native Americans* were not the first nor were they native they came across the baring strait. The best we can tell there were no true natives.

    2. I will agree there are fair minded normal everyday folks who proclaim their religion as Islam, but there are also self proclaimed Christians who have never seen the inside of a church.

    3. The only reason I see in discussing the tenants of Islam is you lumped it in with several denominations of Christianity, and there is nothing about Christianity that prescribes it’s its own counter-culture laws or conquering pagans and nonbelievers. The head of the Christian faith says the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. The foundation of each religion should be a reasonable expectation as to what the proper execution of its tenants looks like.

    Religion is a tricky subject. It’s one of those places where culture, history, and traditions meet. Typically when a person talks about their religion it typically consists of three things, scriptures, spoken history and traditions. Scripture is the least flawed but it’s also the least connected to. Which means as time goes by people pick and choose what traditions and stories are kept in the for front. In addition our religion is often chosen for us by location, family, social pressures, etc. Needless to say I find religion fascinating
     
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