Mueller Report

Ninja Defender said:

I think this is a good point. The way I see mass media, along with social media today, is that progressives are trying to use it to condition people to accept ideas that are extremely anti-American. Things like socialism, open borders, and extreme gun control

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I don’t think it’s intentional really. I think that when twitter, YouTube, Facebook, etc use their algorithms to determine what content you’re likely to engage with it puts up perspectives you agree with. For people who already struggle with diversity of thought and need someone else to blame for their problems, it becomes very insulating. The problem is that these conditions, horrible ideas being preached in echo chambers, are the sorts of things that lead to violence. It’s where you get people beating each other with clubs, throwing mortar shells into crowds, and eventually attempted bombings in Long Beach, trying to buy guns from cartels to attempt armed rebellion on the border, etc. Our Country’s blessing with the fringe left is their incompetence of action, nothing else.

None of those things are compatible with the Constitution. In order to tear down America and rebuild it in the progressive image, they are going to have to find some way to either get rid of the Constitution, or weaken it to the point it can no longer protect anything. That the power-mad crowd is doing this is not surprising. Control freaks are going to try to do what they can to get the control.

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I really don’t think they need to do any of that at all. They just need to appoint judges that interpret it in nonsensical ways. It’s why they’ve been kissing RBG’s ass and why they melted down with Brett Kavanaugh. It’s why “judicial resistance” is becoming common and it’s done with the same roots as what seems to have sprouted the FBI’s investigations. Some of the recent rulings seem so far away from being a reasonable interpretation of law, it becomes obvious that the rulings are politically motivated.

The problem is twofold. If we ever have a Supreme Court which has swung that far, the damage will be incredibly long term if not completely irreversible. In those lower courts the rulings are overturned, but not before progress is delayed for months or years, and there is no true oversight for these judges.

Jack- Great point.

You mentioned "some of the better voice on youtube.."

Which channels/content creators do you watch/Listen to?

Let's post up some of the better Youtube channels and podcasts related to this whole broader thread topic if we could-

I listen to and watch Dan Bongino Podcast, on youtube I watch Praying Medic, Redpill78, JustInformed Talk, X22Report, In Pursuit of Truth. I'll turn the speed up on most all of these to 1.5, or higher to speed things up just a bit.

Who do some of you listen to?

Tim Pool, Ben Shapiro, Stephen Crowder, Dave Ruben, Dan Crenshaw, etc. I like stuff that is either in depth from a self identified left or right perspective, because you can see the opinions and take the bits of truth while the lean isn’t hidden. I also like long form unedited interviews/debates/discussions, because it gets further into the issues than what would work on cable TV. Joe Rogan’s Podcast can be really good as well, depending on who he has on with him.

Stephen Crowder, I can’t really deal with his podcasts, they get really annoying, but his change my mind stuff is actually pretty good.

Ben Shapiro is good, but he focuses way too hard on anti-semitism to the point it becomes a broken record(he is a Jew, so I understand why he focuses on it, but I don’t need to hear about Ilan Omar every day).

Tim Pool and Dave Ruben are a bit left, but criticize both sides, which makes for a good perspective.

Dan Crenshaw is pretty damn well spoken and rational. He gives a good right libertarian perspective and if he ever comes up on a national ballot I’ll vote for him.

Here,For those who haven't seen this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7qPwE1CD_Y

This is all about discrediting Barr so when he goes after Obama & Hillary Clinton the msm can spin it......

Jack said:

I actually disagree on a few of those counts. I think that some of the better voices on YouTube are the best voices across all platforms. Because the platform itself is more open than others, it allows people to have viewpoints that are unpopular or wouldn’t get huge ratings.

To me, high misinformation is low information, and we have that, plus those people who only read headlines without giving anything much thought. I’m a bit young to remember 1992, but I can say it feels like the echo chambers presented by certain facets of the news and certainly by social media add to that polarization and lack of information.

I think a lot of what’s shown below comes down to those echo chambers at work. I mean, the Democratic Party has openly become the party of anti-semitism, abortion to point of birth, open borders, totally ignoring science, safe spaces, anti-interracial couples, speech is violence, punching nazis(and EVERYONE right of Bill Mahr is a Nazi), etc. etc. Certainly some of this stuff has been around, but they’ve never been so blatant about it.

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There is now doubt that the media has become more emboldened by our stupidity as a whole. Those with an agenda have pushed and pushed shifting the conversation to the left. But the tribalism you speak of I can be explained by the use and abuse of social media.

Social Media posts are the new chain email. You know the ones I speak of, the kind where if you disengage you critical thinking skills for a minute, seem true and the thought of it possibly being true enrages enough people for it to be reposted to another dozen pages and sites before the first poster actually put five seconds of critical thought to it.

The media and the wacko left even the neocons often take advantage of this foolishness. Using it as the echo chamber you speak of. Personally I saw this take of under Obama you would get wild conspiracies that have no resemblance of intellectual honesty, but because Obama was a Muslim communist (I actually believe that part) it must be true.

Since we as a whole have given up on critical thinking completely it’s easier and easier for people with agendas to manipulate us we are almost like Pavlav’s dog now, but instead of a dinner bell making us salivate it’s key words like unconstitutional, American values, tyranny, etc. that make us jump up and go to foaming at the mouth and barking.


Prime example:
Have you discussed the bump stock ban with anyone. Despite anyone’s opinion of validity of the ban we lost a little private property rights and a little gun rights all in one EO. Find your favorite Trump supporter and explain that to them and then explain that after eight years of bluster from Obama we lost zero gun rights. Then watch their eyes glaze over.

I agree with all of that, but I would also add that the current situation lends itself to not only providing lots of those opportunities to abandon critical thinking, but also limits interactions with legitimate thoughts and ideas.

Once google(YouTube), Twitter, Facebook, etc. have decided a person leans in a certain direction they exclusively provide content reenforcing that stance. If you were to create a gmail account and sign into YouTube, the content would be varied(provided they aren’t using previously gained information). If you were to search for green new deal, as an example, you would get videos showing opinions from both sides. Once you *pick a side* by watching a mess of videos from the young Turks, you’ll end up getting results geared towards far left crazy. The inverse is also true.

Because of this, it becomes both a self enforced echo chamber(people choosing to watch content that reflects their opinions) and an outside enforced echo chamber(whatever platform only presenting information that agrees with those same viewpoints). It’s both issues at once, not so much one or the other.

As an aside, it’s gotten to the point where Facebook information gathers for people who have never even been on the site. When Facebook asks a person if they can pull their contacts, it uses that information to create networks of people and who they know. It also logs information from pictures and their comments.

If I had never made a Facebook account, but a girl I’m dating has, and she uploads her contacts, they store my name, phone number, email(if it’s in her contacts), etc. If she then posts a bunch of pictures with her and I, while referencing my name in the caption, Facebook sees that and then associates those pictures with my information. If one of my relatives shares their contacts and has me listed as an emergency contact in their phone with relation name, it sees that and then uses the information to extrapolate who all I’m related to. The list goes on.

I know this might sound pretty tin foil hat(where is emperor anyways )but it’s actually true. I think it’s a bit shitty, it’s something I think people should be able to entirely opt out of, and it becomes worrisome, especially considering what Facebook is doing with people’s data and then allowing things Russian government interference in our elections. Add to that, then currently working on a cryptocurrency system and troubling seems to be an understatement.

Jack said:

I agree with all of that, but I would also add that the current situation lends itself to not only providing lots of those opportunities to abandon critical thinking, but also limits interactions with legitimate thoughts and ideas. It’s both issues at once, not so much one or the other.

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Agreed we are watching a social de-evolution.

I think that two things can be true at the same time. In addition to your point, I would say that there is a great potential to all of this. YouTube personalities are getting more views than MSNBC right now, especially among key demographics. I think over the next decade we will see traditional media continue to lose ground to independent content creators. If censorship doesn’t come for them, I think it will become more about ideas and less about narratives and misinformation.

Our history has been one of good ideas slowly gaining ground and replacing bad. We take a step back, we take two forward, it has been one of refining and trying to live up to the ideas of the founders. Though some might say it, I think anyone would have a hard time convincing me we haven’t moved in a good direction over the two centuries. They’d also have a hard time convincing me that over a long enough span of time that we won’t move past the struggles we have today.

Jack said:

I think that two things can be true at the same time. In addition to your point, I would say that there is a great potential to all of this. YouTube personalities are getting more views than MSNBC right now, especially among key demographics. I think over the next decade we will see traditional media continue to lose ground to independent content creators. If censorship doesn’t come for them, I think it will become more about ideas and less about narratives and misinformation.

Our history has been one of good ideas slowly gaining ground and replacing bad. We take a step back, we take two forward, it has been one of refining and trying to live up to the ideas of the founders. Though some might say it, I think anyone would have a hard time convincing me we haven’t moved in a good direction over the two centuries. They’d also have a hard time convincing me that over a long enough span of time that we won’t move past the struggles we have today.

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I don’t disagree there is tons good content on YouTube. I watch Steven Crowder and Ben Shapiro from time to time, but an overwhelming amount of content and users range from a little tin-foily to intentionally misinforming and silly to mentally retarded. You may start with Ben Shapiro excoriating a leftist about gun control and two videos later it’s the builderburgs, agenda 21, and mass casualty sites. Or you watch a clip on the mass migrations in Europe and two videos later it’s a want to be lawyer saying am I being detained. I find that more you watch the crazy crap the more you get it cued up. If you just suspended your critical thinking for 2-3 hours you could really get wound up.

CatCam said:

This is all about discrediting Barr so when he goes after Obama & Hillary Clinton the msm can spin it......

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You expect someone to actually investigate or charge Obama and the Clintons? I believe you have a little too much faith in the broken one sided system.

Yeah, my hard rule is if I see the pyramid with the eye from the back of the dollar bill, I pass lol.

As it relates to the lawyers being detained, I think that YouTube has figured out some of the right gets a kick out of that stuff and puts it in there as an option to see if it expands what you look at to include that kind of stuff. If you click it, you get more.

Bangswitch said:

You expect someone to actually investigate or charge Obama and the Clintons? I believe you have a little too much faith in the broken one sided system.

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I’m cautiously optimistic on this. Lots of signs pointing towards bad actors, possible criminal activities, a president who campaigned on lock her up and endured two years of conspiracy theories designed to undermine his presidency. If there were ever a set of circumstances to make it happen, these are those circumstances. It’s not like before, when Obama pardoned Holder. They don’t really have a direct way of worming out of accountability. No more executive privilege, no more pardons.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...arted_we_are_going_to_see_accountability.html

Jack said:

Yeah, my hard rule is if I see the pyramid with the eye from the back of the dollar bill, I pass lol.

As it relates to the lawyers being detained, I think that YouTube has figured out some of the right gets a kick out of that stuff and puts it in there as an option to see if it expands what you look at to include that kind of stuff. If you click it, you get more.

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Yeah for me it’s more entertaining to watch some *brilliant* lawyer harass a cop in hopes he does something dumb enough to ride the lightning, than say catfish Cooley eating a hot pepper and washing it down with fireball whiskey. There is enough foolishness on YouTube to prove we are living in the times of Idiocracy, and I suppose I’m guilty of enjoying one of the things I complain about killing our society. All we can do is try to engage those around us in intellectual conversations that cross dividing lines in hope that we help others exercise their critical thinking skills, because it’s basically a mental muscle the more you use it the stronger it gets.

Oh yeah, I still get a kick out of “don’t taze me bro”

People will always be entertained by that kinda stuff, it’s just the type of animal we are.

"Two things can be right" I'm going to borrow that phrase . Good discussion , civil and enjoyable .

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ozarkpugs said:

"Two things can be true " I'm going to borrow that phrase . Good discussion , civil and enjoyable .

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ozarkpugs said:

"Two things can be right" I'm going to borrow that phrase . Good discussion , civil and enjoyable .

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It’s such a basic and overwhelming point, especially when someone is using whataboutisms. It’s also a great way to move conversations forward. People love to ignore something they’re doing wrong(or those they follow) by redirecting to something else. It brings the topic back, acknowledges their point, and keeps it moving on.