Louisiana trying to ban death penalty?

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  • Gator 45/70

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    Hardly a scare crow argument. I wonder if this senator has any ties to the current prison system, and how they get paid. Prisoners per head on average cost more than the average median income of some states. Only 622 million in Louisiana. I am all for giving a guy his day in court, and many of the cases that are being turned over are cases that are many years old. As the years go by, the number of incarcerated innocent people will go down. I am all for the death penalty, because it is supposed to be a deterrent rather than a final punishment. That is the problem with they system as a whole today. The punishments are supposed to be harsh, to encourage human behavior. Like everything else though, we have watered it all down to the point that no one really cares. Religion, watered down, Politics, watered down, Society, watered down, Morality, watered down, Responsibility, watered down, Self Control, watered down, Freedom, watered down. Why not just continue to water down the justice system as well.

    Any system where a few people profit off of the many people, especially those on the receiving end of our tax dollars, will have a certain amount of corruption. The masses today value money, and power over all else. As long as our relaxed moral code is accepted, and continues to become more relaxed our society will continue to devolve into madness.

    No kidding,Prisons are big business nowadays,Follow the money trail!
     

    gwpercle

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    The Pharmaceutical Co. wont supply the drugs needed for an execution ?

    Just write the condemened man a prescription for an opioid pain medicine...watch how fast they will fill that...with unlimited refills...the job will soon be over !
     

    Roadhazzard

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    You say,Oops,Here's 20 million of the states tax dollars like everyone else who screws up and pulls the trigger on the wrong dude...

    Every human life is an absolutely unique and unprecedented thing in all of space and time. If that unique and unprecedented thing is snatched out of existence, and it turns out it was an innocent....well Gator, Oops and some money just doesn't cut it for me. Not even close. I am genuinely confused how so many people can just overlook the abject horror of the state purposefully taking an innocent life with such cavalier abandon. I really don't understand.

    I know I'm not like everybody else oftentimes, but for me, the emotional satisfaction from burning down a billion guilty souls would not erase the stain on my own from even one innocent death that I have had a part in. I know what kind of forum this is, and I am perfectly prepared to use deadly force without hesitation to protect the lives of myself and those I love. But I have to confess, I am surprised by the bloodthirsty tone from some members here. And disappointed.

    Aren't we, the members of a group like this, supposed to be the ones protecting the innocent? I don't remember who said it but I often reflect on a quote..."Nothing is as strong as gentleness, and nothing is as gentle as true strength."




    This has been an interesting discussion. It is unlikely that I will contribute further for fear of repeating myself.

    Thanks Mike, and Ozark for your thoughts.
     

    Gator 45/70

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    Every human life is an absolutely unique and unprecedented thing in all of space and time. If that unique and unprecedented thing is snatched out of existence, and it turns out it was an innocent....well Gator, Oops and some money just doesn't cut it for me. Not even close. I am genuinely confused how so many people can just overlook the abject horror of the state purposefully taking an innocent life with such cavalier abandon. I really don't understand.

    I know I'm not like everybody else oftentimes, but for me, the emotional satisfaction from burning down a billion guilty souls would not erase the stain on my own from even one innocent death that I have had a part in. I know what kind of forum this is, and I am perfectly prepared to use deadly force without hesitation to protect the lives of myself and those I love. But I have to confess, I am surprised by the bloodthirsty tone from some members here. And disappointed.

    Aren't we, the members of a group like this, supposed to be the ones protecting the innocent? I don't remember who said it but I often reflect on a quote..."Nothing is as strong as gentleness, and nothing is as gentle as true strength."




    This has been an interesting discussion. It is unlikely that I will contribute further for fear of repeating myself.

    Thanks Mike, and Ozark for your thoughts.

    How sweet,Their all Innocent,Just ask them boys on death row, In real time how about the victims of these raping,bloodthirsty gang of cut-throats we have on death row?

    No pity party for the innocents?
     

    Bangswitch

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    Maybe my lack of experience with the criminal justice system is causing me to be naive, maybe some of you guys are a little jaded, but I don’t think innocent people in prison in general is as common an issue as it seems this thread is making it. It would be wise to have some type of check and balance to confirm the prosecutor has turned over all evidence concerning a case, and a penalty steep enough to deter such naughty behavior, because the truth is our prisons and the death penalty is not a good enough deterrent. Punishments should be more swift and more severe than our limp wrist whinny society has made it. I mean seriously the death penalty takes 30 years and then they put you down like a beloved pet with a failing heart. All while keeping you safe and warm and fed until that faithful day. Death row typically gets a special place outside of general population so short of the end result it’s probably safer than the admin buildings in most prisons. It’s an embarrassment.
     

    Roadhazzard

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    How sweet,Their all Innocent,Just ask them boys on death row, In real time how about the victims of these raping,bloodthirsty gang of cut-throats we have on death row?

    No pity party for the innocents?


    I am truly sorry. But if this is honestly what you took away from what I wrote I do not believe you and I have enough in common to have a conversation. Fair enough, every man may chose who he will be. I wish you a happy, long, and prosperous life. Please do not attempt to communicate with me again in any way, shape, form, or fashion.


    .
     

    Roadhazzard

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    Bangswitch, I had to read your post again to be sure I didn't miss anything. After doing so, I find myself in general agreement with everything you wrote. The one area in which it may seem we differ is not really an area of dispute between us. I agree that innocent people are probably not very common in prison. But I also do believe there are some.

    I also happen to be in a position to know that the kiss them on the wrist instead of spanking that *** style of discipline in the schools contribute to the guilty prison population. They call it the School to Prison Pipeline, and they are right, just not for the reasons the nuttigeg social justice warriors believe.


    And now I am really out. Enjoyed the conversation.

    .
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    How sweet,Their all Innocent,Just ask them boys on death row, In real time how about the victims of these raping,bloodthirsty gang of cut-throats we have on death row?

    No pity party for the innocents?
    You are misrepresenting what he and others posted. No one said most or even a large number of accused are innocent what we are saying is if you execute just one innocent person because of a corrupt or incompetent court system you are as guilty as any other murderer . There has been too many cases where people have spent years in jail before being proven innocent and almost every time the reason they were convicted was the cops and or prosecutor lies or hid evidence . The system is too corrupt . When they make it a capital offence for a Leo or prosecutor to lie or hide evidence then maybe I will change my mind on the subject .

    Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk
     

    MTregre

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    So if they do away with it, can they make prison, prison again? 2 meals, low grade at that, bars and walls for 23hrs, 1hr yard, 2 showers a week.

    I've always thought the time should fit the crime as should the accommodations.
     

    Gator 45/70

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    I am truly sorry. But if this is honestly what you took away from what I wrote I do not believe you and I have enough in common to have a conversation. Fair enough, every man may chose who he will be. I wish you a happy, long, and prosperous life. Please do not attempt to communicate with me again in any way, shape, form, or fashion.


    .

    AWW Man, Don't get all but-hurt because someone won't join your pity-party,I'm sure you could join a state sponsored half-way house for con's being released?

    You know,Take them into your home for 6 months as part of their probation period before they are fully released back into the general population!
     

    Gator 45/70

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    You are misrepresenting what he and others posted. No one said most or even a large number of accused are innocent what we are saying is if you execute just one innocent person because of a corrupt or incompetent court system you are as guilty as any other murderer . There has been too many cases where people have spent years in jail before being proven innocent and almost every time the reason they were convicted was the cops and or prosecutor lies or hid evidence . The system is too corrupt . When they make it a capital offence for a Leo or prosecutor to lie or hide evidence then maybe I will change my mind on the subject .

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    Hardly cat daddy,SIL was raped by one of the good old boys on death row after which he invaded a bank,Raped a few more ladies at the bank and then put the barrel of an AR to one of the ladies head and pulled the trigger....All filmed by the banks cameras....
    The state had all the DNA they needed plus the murder caught on film....And he sits there on death row 20 some odd years later...Still sucking in good air.
    No tears from me!
     

    Bangswitch

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    So if they do away with it, can they make prison, prison again? 2 meals, low grade at that, bars and walls for 23hrs, 1hr yard, 2 showers a week.

    I've always thought the time should fit the crime as should the accommodations.

    Isolation from the rest society in bad accommodations isn’t a much of a punishment or a deterrent. We need public hangings and chain-gangs. We need hard labor and less free time.

    Ive gone on prison ministry trips to Angola. Angola makes a net profit from their operations. They grow more food than they consume so it’s sold for a profit, but as well ran as it is, the general population has way too much time on its hands to be considered punishment. There is a church in every camp and they put on several services throughout the week. The churches have A/C and the dormitories do not. There is a ton of unused rich Mississippi silt for soil covering acres of un used land. If they really worked those guys they could fix some budget shortfalls in the state in addition to making their stay in the prison system even less appealing.
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    AWW Man, Don't get all but-hurt because someone won't join your pity-party,I'm sure you could join a state sponsored half-way house for con's being released?

    You know,Take them into your home for 6 months as part of their probation period before they are fully released back into the general population!
    Again ,you have misrepresented what myself and others have said . No one has come off as a bleeding heart or in any way indicated that guilty people should be treated with kids gloves . You have completely turned around what people have posted to validate your position . The very reason we can not advocate executing scumbags who are definitely 100% guilty like the one you use as an example is because witnesses ,LEO and prosecutors do exactly as you have and twist the truth and facts to win . We have not insulted you or misrepresented what you said . We stated our opinions and gave sound reasons for the reason we felt that way . As far as trying to paint Roadhazzard as a bleeding heart friend of criminals I would bet he would have shot the scumbag that used as an example as fast as you or I would have . Please point out where he or I have hinted guilty people should get better treatment or even not be executed . We are talking about people who are falsely accused ,you know like you have falsely accused Roadhazzard .

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    Gator 45/70

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    Again ,you have misrepresented what myself and others have said . No one has come off as a bleeding heart or in any way indicated that guilty people should be treated with kids gloves . You have completely turned around what people have posted to validate your position . The very reason we can not advocate executing scumbags who are definitely 100% guilty like the one you use as an example is because witnesses ,LEO and prosecutors do exactly as you have and twist the truth and facts to win . We have not insulted you or misrepresented what you said . We stated our opinions and gave sound reasons for the reason we felt that way . As far as trying to paint Roadhazzard as a bleeding heart friend of criminals I would bet he would have shot the scumbag that used as an example as fast as you or I would have . Please point out where he or I have hinted guilty people should get better treatment or even not be executed . We are talking about people who are falsely accused ,you know like you have falsely accused Roadhazzard .

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    Ok,Fair enough,Other than The Green Mile how many on death row here in this state have been proven innocent?
     

    jsg34

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    This was brought up at a recent regional meeting. 6 death row inmates have been exonerated in Louisiana since 2000. The odds of the sentence being carried forth anywhere in the US precludes it being much of a deterrent. Death is not feared by people who really don't have an expectation to live to see 25 anyway. That could be hardcore inner-city gangsters or drug addicts. You cannot get on the net, watch tv, or read a newspaper without reading how deadly fentanyl and heroin are yet that doesn't act as a deterrent to skyrocketing OD death rates. The argument that capital punishment is a deterrent is pusillanimous at best.

    Regarding appeals, I view this in the same way I view the second amendment. All or nothing. I want the right to bear arms to be absolute as well as the right to appeal a sentence or decision. And having that right to appeal naturally causes delays simply due to scheduling. Want faster appeals? Pay more taxes for more judges, more indigent defenders, more prosecutors and more courtrooms.

    I am with the camp that cannot choose to err when it comes to death. "We get it right most of the time" doesn't cut it for me. I'm not really going to wade into the religious argument because I don't claim to be devout nor an expert, but I was under the impression that the rules (ten commandments, teachings of Christ, Torah, Koran) are basically an all or nothing proposition for the faithful. What I do agree is that candidates for office, including judges, should reveal to the voters whether their decisions will be affected by their faith. That is neither good nor bad. I'd just like to be armed with that info when voting.
     
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    ozarkpugs

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    Ok,Fair enough,Other than The Green Mile how many on death row here in this state have been proven innocent?
    That is a question you will have to ask God , how many innocent men have been sentenced to prison ? Only God and those that brought false witness know . What I do know is you implied ( tounge in cheek I'm sure ) that if an innocent man was executed because of corruption or incompetence we would just pay a few million to their families . How many millions would the man you told us attacked your SIL have to pay her family to call it good ? If a state can just pay money to compensate for killing innocent people why can't everyone? Are you willing to call for an equal justice system ? Eye for an eye sounds good to me . How about a law stating If you are in any way a part of trying to have an innocent person charged , jailed or executed you are to receive the same punishment you wished upon them ,that is the only way I will agree to the death penalty . As far as scumbags like the one you described who there is video and DNA 24 solitary lock up for life no contact with the outside world would be more punishment than executing and cheaper also .

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    Emperor

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    In the late 70's, we had 8" Floppy Discs that held 360kb of data. In the 80's we had 3.5 inch Floppys that held 2.88 MB data. In the 90's up to it was up 240 MB, then flash drives the size of house keys that stored GB's and now TB's. Today it is almost incomprehensible what these data storage devices can hold and how small they are.

    Now, dummies mind you, are allowing computers to basically run their lives for them. Smart phones, TV's, PDA's, etc. 20 years ago we (the world collective), were convinced ours was the "only" galaxy in the entire universe. Today we know there are millions.

    Look at DNA science.

    Unless you believe that we have discovered everything we will ever know now, and there will be no further advancements like the very few examples above in that very short span of time, you have to believe this planet or our existence will look a whole hell of a lot different in the next 30 years, as the last 30.

    Many years ago I presumed the ability to one day hook a human brain up, if you will, to a type of computer monitor to actually receive and see the brains synapse visually. Essentially a show of thoughts in real time. Given the history of technological advancement as it looks today, do any of you doubt that is not only a likelihood, but a certainty?

    In time, like all technologies, we will have abilities to determine absolute innocence and absolute guilt in humans, without fingerprints, shell casings, and hair fibers.

    That being said, I don't think the death penalty should be eliminated, but for the time being, put on pause. The automatic decades long appeals processes are taking place anyway. So in essence, it is like life sentences unless they are exonerated after the fact and BEFORE they are finally executed.

    Again, in time, we won't have to worry about who may be wrongfully convicted. There will be no such thing.
     

    thperez1972

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    That is a question you will have to ask God , how many innocent men have been sentenced to prison ? Only God and those that brought false witness know . What I do know is you implied ( tounge in cheek I'm sure ) that if an innocent man was executed because of corruption or incompetence we would just pay a few million to their families . How many millions would the man you told us attacked your SIL have to pay her family to call it good ? If a state can just pay money to compensate for killing innocent people why can't everyone? Are you willing to call for an equal justice system ? Eye for an eye sounds good to me . How about a law stating If you are in any way a part of trying to have an innocent person charged , jailed or executed you are to receive the same punishment you wished upon them ,that is the only way I will agree to the death penalty .

    So if I try to have an innocent person charged, I could face the same penalties as they would even if all the evidence at the time pointed toward his guilt and the evidence proving his innocence only became known after I tried to have the innocent person charged? Your suggested law could make my actions illegal even if there was no evidence suggesting his innocence at the time I made my decision. Police would stop arresting people on probable cause. Heck, they couldn't even summons the person. A summons is the first step in trying to get someone charged. While I understand the motive for the suggested law, I would suggest the unintended consequences were not thoroughly considered.

    As far as scumbags like the one you described who there is video and DNA 24 solitary lock up for life no contact with the outside world would be more punishment than executing and cheaper also .

    45.png
     

    ozarkpugs

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    So if I try to have an innocent person charged, I could face the same penalties as they would even if all the evidence at the time pointed toward his guilt and the evidence proving his innocence only became known after I tried to have the innocent person charged? Your suggested law could make my actions illegal even if there was no evidence suggesting his innocence at the time I made my decision. Police would stop arresting people on probable cause. Heck, they couldn't even summons the person. A summons is the first step in trying to get someone charged. While I understand the motive for the suggested law, I would suggest the unintended consequences were not thoroughly considered.



    View attachment 85774
    No that is not what I'm saying ,I'm saying if you knowing withhold information that shows someone could be innocent or hide evidence showing they may be innocent then you should have to be tried . As it stands now later , maybe years later you can get an appeal if it comes out the Leo or prosecutor withholds evidence of innocence but there is no consequences paid by the Leo or prosecutor . Besides I am not saying everyone involved should go to jail just the parties that tried to or kept them from having a fair trial . No innocent Leo or prosecutor will be sentenced because they will get a fair trial just like everyone else does . If it is shown the LEO did his job to the best of his ability and without prejudice and had no knowledge of evidence being hid the Grand jury will probably not recommend charges and if they do a good lawyer can take care of it for them .

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