ATF Looking for Fully Automatic Glocks.

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • JBP55

    La. CHP Instructor #409
    Premium Member
    Rating - 100%
    338   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    16,999
    113
    Walker
    Federal authorities suspect that thousands of machine gun conversion devices have been illegally imported into the United States from China, in some cases ending up in the hands of convicted felons, CNN has learned.
    Agents with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives are actively working to locate the devices and retrieve them.
    Brad Engelbert, an ATF spokesman, described the nationwide recovery effort as a "high priority" for the agency, focused on those devices in the possession of "people who may be a danger to the community."
    "We're working it," Engelbert said. "We want to nip this in the bud. We want to get these things off the street."
    He declined to provide details about the number of devices recovered, but said some had been taken from convicted felons.

    ATF and customs officials in Chicago identified more than 2,900 packages containing conversion devices "that are believed to have been shipped into the United States" under false customs declarations, according to an affidavit filed in federal court in Rhode Island. The devices render semi-automatic Glock pistols into fully automatic weapons and are considered a machine gun in and of themselves under federal law. While the devices are specifically designed to modify Glock pistols, Engelbert, the ATF spokesman, stressed that they are not manufactured by Glock.
    PayPal accounts linked to the suspected Chinese exporter -- "revealed over 3,800 sales transactions by US customers who are believed to have illegally purchased and obtained" the weapons, according to court records.
    Agents with the ATF's Internet Investigations Center recently purchased "multiple" conversion devices from a website "believed to be operated out of China" by one or more suspects, according to the affidavit. The conversion devices were sold for $19.99 each and advertised as "Glock Pistols Select of switch Full Auto For All models Glock all Generations."
    Shipping labels, however, described them as "MULTITOOL SWITCH" and/or "HANDCRAFTED FINISHED PIECES."

    One gun's path to destruction
    It is illegal for civilians in the United States to possess machine guns manufactured after 1986. Ownership of a machine gun made before then requires a federal permit and registration. The relatively small amount of fully automatic weapons available for purchase has created a niche market in which they can sell for tens of thousands of dollars.
    Jill Snyder, a recently retired supervisory agent with ATF, said the fact that there's no lawful use for the devices raises troubling questions about who is attempting to acquire them.
    "They're not for hunting," she told CNN. "They're not for home protection." Rather, Snyder said, she worried they may appeal to criminals interested in "drive-bys and mass shootings."
    Attempting to locate and recover them, she said, presents an obvious danger: "You've got agents knocking on the doors of people potentially armed with fully automatic weapons."
    Among the Chinese website's suspected customers is a convicted felon from Rhode Island named David Poole, according to court records. Poole is suspected of purchasing at least two of the devices and was charged earlier this month in federal court in Providence with being a felon in possession of a weapon and possession of a machine gun.
    Poole is described in court records as "a known drug user" with eight previous arrests and a 2014 felony conviction for receiving stolen property.
    According to court records, he recently provided his girlfriend cash to buy him four guns, including three Glock pistols, totaling more than $2,500 in value. Poole was arrested shortly after the devices for converting Glocks to automatic weapons were delivered to his home, the records state.

    Poole allegedly told agents he acquired the devices "for home protection."
    Contacted by CNN, Poole's attorney declined comment. The case is pending.
    In April, agents raided a home in Missouri linked to man suspected of buying 13 conversion kits from the website of a Chinese company. The company is not identified in the court filing, but language used to advertise the devices matches that on the site referred to in the Rhode Island court affidavit.
    Records obtained via a search warrant revealed that Garnell Carter used his PayPal account to purchase the devices, according to an affidavit filed in St. Louis federal court.
    Agents seized six of the devices and found packaging "consistent with Carter having received more" of the devices.

    One occupant of the house told agents Carter said he knew how to convert Glock pistols to automatic weapons and offered to do so for the person, the affidavit states.
    Carter has pleaded not guilty. His attorney also declined comment.
    The conversion devices have also been recovered in Illinois and California, according to court filings and news accounts.
    Snyder, who most recently ran the San Francisco Division of the ATF before retiring from the agency last fall, said she previously worked on cases involving similar devices being illegally exported from the Philippines.

    She said the devices don't have serial numbers on them and are impossible to track if not recovered in the possession of the original purchaser. She added that, just because ATF was aware of one company's sales, that doesn't mean that there aren't others going undetected.
    "That sounds like a significant number," she said of the ongoing investigation into the Chinese website. "How many other thousands are there that we don't know about
     

    MALIBU12

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    71   0   2
    Sep 16, 2008
    2,102
    36
    slidell
    I know of 2 websites that offer then as parts for Airsoft guns, But it's the real deal. Milled Aluminum block with steel internals.
     

    jessopher

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Jun 26, 2010
    501
    18
    covington
    We got a few at the shop and full auto glocks suck. In fact if every gangbanger had full auto glocks there would probably be fewer deaths from gun violence. Empties a mag faster than you can reload and can't hit anything
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    How many gang-bangers do you know that could do this conversion? I mean illegal is illegal but let’s be serious. The threat of gang-bangers buying this kit and turning their Gats into Choppa-Gats ain’t real likely. :rofl:

    Now a bunch of wannabe militia dudes playing war in the woods that’s who does stuff like this. And let’s be honest the biggest risk to us is one is uninsured when he finger-f***s the trigger and ends up with self inflicted holes in his body.

    Mass shooters are almost never gun enthusiast and this isn’t exactly something you can pay many people to do so the odds it’s used in a mass shooting event is unlikely to me as well.

    By process of elimination, it seems to me the ATF among others spend a whole lot of time and effort worrying about this Hollywood version homegrown terrorism committed by these fictitious boogieman groups/militias. I just don’t see it.
     
    Last edited:

    dougstump

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 22, 2010
    702
    16
    x
    A couple of decades ago I had the (dis)pleasure of test firing a 1911 that the owner had just done a DIY trigger job, so I know how uncontrollable a full auto pistol is to anything overhead. These drop in sears are dangerous. #ceilinglivesmatter!:rofl:
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,712
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    How many gang-bangers do you know that could do this conversion? I mean illegal is illegal but let’s be serious. The threat of gang-bangers buying this kit and turning their Gats into Choppa-Gats ain’t real likely. :rofl:

    Now a bunch of wannabe militia dudes playing war in the woods that’s who does stuff like this. And let’s be honest the biggest risk to us is one is uninsured when he finger-f***s the trigger and ends up with self inflicted holes in his body.

    Mass shooters are almost never gun enthusiast and this isn’t exactly something you can pay many people to do so the odds it’s used in a mass shooting event is unlikely to me as well.

    So it's only really illegal if the bad people have it? If the the good people have it, it's something like legally illegal or something?

    If you want to make the point it should be legal for law abiding citizens, I'll support your position. But, as usual, I can't say I stand behind the general idea of overlooking the enforcement of a law simply because there's someone or something worse out there.

    By process of elimination, it seems to me the ATF among others spend a whole lot of time and effort worrying about this Hollywood version homegrown terrorism committed by these fictitious boogieman groups/militias. I just don’t see it.

    What was eliminated?
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    $500 Billion in trade deficits, constant computer hacking, constantly stealing intellectual property, spying, world's single largest polluter (both air and sea), and now this!

    China is scum!
     

    Danny Abear

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Aug 11, 2007
    1,444
    48
    Brusly, La.
    "You've got agents knocking on the doors of people potentially armed with fully automatic weapons."

    OMG!!!!

    OKAY for them but not for thee!!!!!!!!!

    Hey Gator, I'm fixin to have a semi goning outta business sale on guns, reloading, and casting stuff. What you have on your need list?
     

    AZ2VET

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jan 2, 2017
    201
    16
    Ponchatoula, La.
    This may be a good reason to put the squeeze on China's government with trade and tarrifs. China has been at this kind of stuff for to long, they copy and counterfit everything they can reguardless of copyright or patents.
     

    Troedoff

    *Banned*
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 18, 2014
    136
    16
    Prairieville
    How many gang-bangers do you know that could do this conversion? I mean illegal is illegal but let’s be serious. The threat of gang-bangers buying this kit and turning their Gats into Choppa-Gats ain’t real likely. :rofl:

    Now a bunch of wannabe militia dudes playing war in the woods that’s who does stuff like this. And let’s be honest the biggest risk to us is one is uninsured when he finger-f***s the trigger and ends up with self inflicted holes in his body.

    Mass shooters are almost never gun enthusiast and this isn’t exactly something you can pay many people to do so the odds it’s used in a mass shooting event is unlikely to me as well.

    By process of elimination, it seems to me the ATF among others spend a whole lot of time and effort worrying about this Hollywood version homegrown terrorism committed by these fictitious boogieman groups/militias. I just don’t see it.

    I am pretty sure you do not personally know any gangbangers, or ex gangbangers by this statement. There are plenty of "gangbangers who have the mental capacity, and the mechanical aptitude for a project of this magnitude. Honestly I am not sure why anyone thinks that there is some fine art to building a working firearm? It really is not exactly rocket science. The tolerances are well within what most people are capable of. You can be as sloppy or as intricate as you want to be within those tolerances, but they are not exactly what I would call precision built. If they were they would not function reliably. There are many gangbangers especially in places like Illinois, and California who are able to build complete firearms from 80% parts without ever having to pass a background check. You don't exactly need a doctorate to build one, it is a simple machine.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    So it's only really illegal if the bad people have it? If the the good people have it, it's something like legally illegal or something?

    If you want to make the point it should be legal for law abiding citizens, I'll support your position. But, as usual, I can't say I stand behind the general idea of overlooking the enforcement of a law simply because there's someone or something worse out there.



    What was eliminated?

    You are missing my point. There are illegal comings and going’s as it relates to gun’s and illegal possession all the time but some how a Chinese product that a specific segment of people are buying is some how a major concern. Thugs buy guns on the street all day every day but some illegal fire control parts are sold to make gat’s run like an adding machine and it’s chicken little syndrome.

    Again my point it’s if they should or shouldn’t enforce the law but to point out that the sky isn’t falling.
     
    Last edited:

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    I am pretty sure you do not personally know any gangbangers, or ex gangbangers by this statement. There are plenty of "gangbangers who have the mental capacity, and the mechanical aptitude for a project of this magnitude. Honestly I am not sure why anyone thinks that there is some fine art to building a working firearm? It really is not exactly rocket science. The tolerances are well within what most people are capable of. You can be as sloppy or as intricate as you want to be within those tolerances, but they are not exactly what I would call precision built. If they were they would not function reliably. There are many gangbangers especially in places like Illinois, and California who are able to build complete firearms from 80% parts without ever having to pass a background check. You don't exactly need a doctorate to build one, it is a simple machine.

    You might be surprised. But I get your point. My biases are definitely kicking in. My experiences may not match other people’s the thugs and wannabe thugs I’ve come across couldn’t pour **** from a boot with instructions.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,712
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    You are missing my point. There are illegal comings and going’s as it relates to gun’s and illegal possession all the time but some how a Chinese product that a specific segment of people are buying is some how a major concern. Thugs buy guns on the street all day every day but some illegal fire control parts are sold to make gat’s run like an adding machine and it’s chicken little syndrome.

    I get your point. I don't agree with your point. The federal government can investigate the fire control parts AND other illegal acts at the same time. They are not limited to only one investigation at a time.

    It's more the jurisdiction of state and/or local government to investigate the day to day buying and selling of illegal guns. So a federal investigation of fire control parts would not affect the state/local investigation of the guns on the street being bought and sold. If the buying and selling were at the level where the feds would handle the investigation, see the previous paragraph regarding multitasking.

    Are you trying to imply, with no supporting information, that the feds are only enforcing this law because the people committing the crime fall within a specific segment of the population? If so, I will keep an open mind when I look over the information you provide in a future post supporting your claim.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    I get your point. I don't agree with your point. The federal government can investigate the fire control parts AND other illegal acts at the same time. They are not limited to only one investigation at a time.

    It's more the jurisdiction of state and/or local government to investigate the day to day buying and selling of illegal guns. So a federal investigation of fire control parts would not affect the state/local investigation of the guns on the street being bought and sold. If the buying and selling were at the level where the feds would handle the investigation, see the previous paragraph regarding multitasking.

    Are you trying to imply, with no supporting information, that the feds are only enforcing this law because the people committing the crime fall within a specific segment of the population? If so, I will keep an open mind when I look over the information you provide in a future post supporting your claim.

    Truefully I’m conflating a two topics.

    My overarching point as it relates to the fire control parts investigation is the quoted opinings of the ATF officials seems a little on the chicken little side of cautious.

    Supporting my point, as I see it there are three potential customer bases for such a product.

    The stereotypical hood rat. Likely can’t install parts

    The weirdos who might commit mass shootings. Same problem

    And

    The militia/mall ninja/gecko45 types. They likely have the skills and interest to install the parts but are usually a bigger danger to themselves.

    Additionally the near uncontrollably of such an abomination would render it near useless to most users.

    So quotes in the first post that make it sound like weaponized Ebola has been imported because a bunch of doofuses got their hands on some illegal hardware amuses me.




    The second point I was attempting to make is the drum-beat over the last few years that the white guy who is a little overly gung-ho about freedom and likes to play with guns is our biggest threat to national security only second to global warming, is equally amusing.
     

    RaleighReloader

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    33   0   0
    Jan 30, 2015
    1,177
    48
    Baton Rouge, LA
    This may be a good reason to put the squeeze on China's government with trade and tarrifs. China has been at this kind of stuff for to long, they copy and counterfit everything they can reguardless of copyright or patents.

    Many of the patent protections you're talking about got scuttled when Trump pulled us out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

    Mike
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,712
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Truefully I’m conflating a two topics.

    My overarching point as it relates to the fire control parts investigation is the quoted opinings of the ATF officials seems a little on the chicken little side of cautious.

    Supporting my point, as I see it there are three potential customer bases for such a product.

    The stereotypical hood rat. Likely can’t install parts

    The weirdos who might commit mass shootings. Same problem

    And

    The militia/mall ninja/gecko45 types. They likely have the skills and interest to install the parts but are usually a bigger danger to themselves.

    Additionally the near uncontrollably of such an abomination would render it near useless to most users.

    So quotes in the first post that make it sound like weaponized Ebola has been imported because a bunch of doofuses got their hands on some illegal hardware amuses me.




    The second point I was attempting to make is the drum-beat over the last few years that the white guy who is a little overly gung-ho about freedom and likes to play with guns is our biggest threat to national security only second to global warming, is equally amusing.

    I agree with some of what you are saying. I believe it's unlikely those things would be seen in a large number of violent crimes that would have been committed even without those parts. But I disagree with hood rats and weirdos not having the ability to install them. The internet is full of information. In fact, the case mentioned in the article is for a convicted felon, someone who might fall into your "stereotypical hood rat" category.

    I suspect a lot of the people buying this thing are the same people who buy "solvent traps" and are doing it for the novelty. That doesn't make it any less illegal. But the enforcement of the laws with respect to this item have been going on for a little while now and the product is far from new. The Firearm Blog did an article on the thing in September 2017. (see link at end)

    Also, I looked through the article in the first post for the quote that makes it sound like weaponized Ebola but I was unable to recognize it. I've pulled most of the quotes from the article that came from a person and listed them here. Could you please let us know which quote you are referring to? Or perhaps it was one of the small quotes that appear to have come from some document or paper?

    1. "people who may be a danger to the community."
    2. "We're working it. We want to nip this in the bud. We want to get these things off the street."
    3. "revealed over 3,800 sales transactions by US customers who are believed to have illegally purchased and obtained"
    4. "They're not for hunting. They're not for home protection." ..."drive-bys and mass shootings."
    5. "You've got agents knocking on the doors of people potentially armed with fully automatic weapons."
    6. "That sounds like a significant number. How many other thousands are there that we don't know about."

    https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/09/14/want-to-make-your-glock-full-auto/
     

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    195,223
    Messages
    1,546,094
    Members
    29,168
    Latest member
    Lyle.lejeune2017
    Top Bottom