Call from ATF to check some of my guns

thperez1972 · Jul 4, 2019

JBP55 said:
Two firearms at once or two firearms in one week from your FFL. If the BATFE Agents come to talk to you they will know every Date, Time, Location of these transactions because they were reported on another form.

mickey said:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/mus...re-pistols-or-revolvers-are-sold-or-otherwise

And there is one for certain rifles as well.

Ah. So there could be a legitimate reason for the ATF to contact a buyer after a large purchase. But if they call you for that, you are the target of their investigation. How long after the purchase in bulk could you expect the call? The OP didn't indicate he purchased in bulk and he mentioned the call was a few years after the purchases.

mickey · Jul 4, 2019

thperez1972 said:
Ah. So there could be a legitimate reason for the ATF to contact a buyer after a large purchase. But if they call you for that, you are the target of their investigation. How long after the purchase in bulk could you expect the call? The OP didn't indicate he purchased in bulk and he mentioned the call was a few years after the purchases.

My guess is something was purchased then later sold. Somewhere down the line due to private sale or being stolen, it ended up being involved in something and traced back to the ffl And they pulled the 4473. I would assume they want to want to chat to start filling in blanks. I’m quite curious to hear more of the outcome. As suggested above though, having counsel is solid advise. Kenny with Meplat or Dan are the first that come to my mind that could offer the best advise on this.

I have bought multiples at once a few times. That is the only reason I knew about the forms.
I’ve never had a call or visit, and have plenty of class 3 toys as well.

thperez1972 · Jul 4, 2019

mickey said:
My guess is something was purchased then later sold. Somewhere down the line due to private sale or being stolen, it ended up being involved in something and traced back to the ffl And they pulled the 4473. I would assume they want to want to chat to start filling in blanks. I’m quite curious to hear more of the outcome. As suggested above though, having counsel is solid advise. Kenny with Meplat or Dan are the first that come to my mind that could offer the best advise on this.

I have bought multiples at once a few times. That is the only reason I knew about the forms.
I’ve never had a call or visit, and have plenty of class 3 toys as well.

It's possible I read too much into the OP but I gathered from the post he still had the items. Of course the OP can clarify this or not depending on how much information he would like to provide.

andysteb · Jul 5, 2019

Bangswitch said:
There was a gun writer who got a visit after some purchases. I’d quote the article but my memory ain’t what it should be. Same deal if memory serves me. I think there is a reporting requirement once you’ve exceeded some many ‘firearms’ at once. Similar to depositing more than 10k in a bank.

I think this is the article that you were referring to. ATF wanted to do a little probing around to verify he wasn't selling guns illegally. After they we satisfied, they revealed the serial number of the gun they were tracing.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/06/run-in-atf/

thperez1972 · Jul 5, 2019

andysteb said:
I think this is the article that you were referring to. ATF wanted to do a little probing around to verify he wasn't selling guns illegally. After they we satisfied, they revealed the serial number of the gun they were tracing.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/06/run-in-atf/

Yep...this is why it is good to consult an attorney. The ATF wasn't doing a random compliance check on the writer based on the large purchase. The writer was the subject of an investigation and the large purchase was either a coincidence or an excuse to make contact with the person of interest without tipping him off. Let's say the guy didn't review guns and didn't keep notes on the firearms he sold along the way. To the ATF, this guy buys a lot of guns and sells a good number of them and can't provide any information regarding a gun that ended up at a crime scene in Mexico. You can bet the guys involvement as a person of interest in the investigation would not have ended there.

On a side note, this is also why this board suggests obtaining a bill of sale for private transactions. In this case, the buyer of the gun in question was a LEO so it would have been easy to imagine there would be no need to record any information on him.But alas, there was.

Magdump · Jul 5, 2019

Rifarkingdiculous. The entire incident. A crying shame as well. Harassment at best. My response to them would not have been pleasant but it would have been pretty short...like three or four words worth.

rcm192 · Jul 5, 2019

JBP55 said:
Two firearms at once or two firearms in one week from your FFL. If the BATFE Agents come to talk to you they will know every Date, Time, Location of these transactions because they were reported on another form.

Thats for handguns purchased. Doesnt pertain to long guns or lowers.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...position-pistols-and-revolvers-atf-form-33104

mickey said:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/mus...re-pistols-or-revolvers-are-sold-or-otherwise

And there is one for certain rifles as well.

Where is the form for multiple rifles?

Edit! I found it.

Bangswitch · Jul 5, 2019

Magdump said:
Rifarkingdiculous. The entire incident. A crying shame as well. Harassment at best. My response to them would not have been pleasant but it would have been pretty short...like three or four words worth.

I understand you sentiment. Being a person of interest in an investigation because you bought and/or sold a few constitutionally protected items seems obscene.

I also see why it may be important to try to catch a straw purchaser supplying guns to bad people. I don’t think anyone is going to do a whole lot of that because the first time a gun the bought ended up in a crime the may get by but after six or so pop he’s gonna be getting a real life colonoscopy. So it wouldn’t make that much sense to target large quantity purchasers.

escknx · Jul 5, 2019

thperez1972 said:
Ah. So there could be a legitimate reason for the ATF to contact a buyer after a large purchase. But if they call you for that, you are the target of their investigation. How long after the purchase in bulk could you expect the call? The OP didn't indicate he purchased in bulk and he mentioned the call was a few years after the purchases.

Yes correct. Recently I've purchased several pistols at the same time, since FFL charges per application, not per gun. I asked FFL he said that now they have to report to ATF when more that 2 handguns per transfer occur. That's was triggered the call I believe. But will see next week.

JBP55 · Jul 5, 2019

escknx said:
Yes correct. Recently I've purchased several pistols at the same time, since FFL charges per application, not per gun. I asked FFL he said that now they have to report to ATF when more that 2 handguns per transfer occur. That's was triggered the call I believe. But will see next week.

When more than 1 is purchased at once or within a week.

bowhtr1 · Jul 5, 2019

What about 4 stripped lowers at one time? I haven't heard anything yet. Been 3 months.

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thperez1972 · Jul 5, 2019

bowhtr1 said:
What about 4 stripped lowers at one time? I haven't heard anything yet. Been 3 months.

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On 3 or 4 occasions I would bought 3 stripped lowers in a single transaction from a shop in Mandeville. I never got a call.

Bangswitch · Jul 5, 2019

bowhtr1 said:
What about 4 stripped lowers at one time? I haven't heard anything yet. Been 3 months.

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Well expect a knock at your door now. Lol

Bangswitch · Jul 5, 2019

thperez1972 said:
On 3 or 4 occasions I would bought 3 stripped lowers in a single transaction from a shop in Mandeville. I never got a call.

‘Other’ must not trigger it?

Maybe something to keep in mind if that’s the case. IDK

escknx · Jul 5, 2019

Might be. In my case it was 2 antique pistols and one pistol lower with arm brace installed.
Possibly that triggered call, will see next week.

bowhtr1 · Jul 6, 2019

escknx said:
Might be. In my case it was 2 antique pistols and one pistol lower with arm brace installed.
Possibly that triggered call, will see next week.

I wonder if the pistol with arm brace was born a pistol or rifle. I can see an issue if the lower was born a rifle with the brace.

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bowhtr1 · Jul 6, 2019

Bangswitch said:
Well expect a knock at your door now. Lol

I don't sell any guns ever. I'm sure all of us are on a list somewhere. They already know who I am with two suppressors.

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DBMJR1 · Jul 6, 2019

Lot's of side conversations here, I'll keep my remarks limited to the OP.

I would ask the agent's name, and what office he works out of. Then I would google that field office, and call the number online to ask for that agent. That will verify his status.

After that, I'd cooperate. The enforcement agents in our area are cool guys. All former military. They just wanna do the right thing. I'd try to be helpful, but then, . . . , I've nothing to hide.

If you decide not to cooperate, that doesn't mean that you have something to hide, just that you guard your privacy more than I do mine.

MOTOR51 · Jul 6, 2019

Bigchillin83 said:
about 15 years ago my brother ran into a lot of money, long story short he bought every glock the made in pairs with consecutive serial numbers in 9,45... think there was 14 of them he bought at once... My buddy at jims told him they would contact him.. well about 3 days later the atf did contact him and ask if they could talk to him, he of course said sure, they came by the next day and didn't even ask to see them just asked what his intention's were with buying that many and if he still had them, He told me they were just making sure he wasn't buying and feeding the street market... He said 10mins and they was gone..

Most people cooperate and have the same results. I’m sure a couple make it hard due to their rights but most that dont cooperate turn out to be criminal. Doesn’t matter if it’s a piece of gum or a trunk full of dope and guns.

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lpso708 · Jul 6, 2019

What reason did he give as to why?

Call from ATF to check some of my guns

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