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  1. #31
    Marksman

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    A few things, saying milspec doesn’t mean anything, is entirely different than saying *some things are made better than milspec and some things are made worse*. The first is nonsense the second is obvious.

    Second, just because it was the only weapon submitted doesn’t mean they have to select it. They have the option of rejecting all offerings.

    I don’t think anyone is saying *____ is milspec, so it is the best option possible*, people are saying *____ is milspec, so there is a standard by which it is made, if you’re okay with that standard or want something different is your choice, but you at least know exactly what you’re getting*.

    I’m actually not a mossberg fan myself, I don’t like the position of the safety. I’m not a shotgun fan at all, I prefer shooting ARs. Me telling you that you’re wrong when you say milspec means nothing and it’s just a marketing tool isn’t coming from a place of me liking mossberg or anything else, it’s coming from a place of *You are wrong, it quite literally means something, it means the item is made to a specific standard*.

    Might wanna deflate that chest a little bit, nobody is all wound up about this. The bit about *class dismissed* when you were clearly talking out of your ass and don’t understand what other people are trying to tell you just makes you look like a child.
    Last edited by Jack; August 25th, 2019 at 03:00 PM.

  2. #32
    Newbie

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    I had a 500 that would "click" every step I took and scare off what I was shooting at. Traded it in on a 870 in a pawn shop, bought a box of shells on the way home, and cleaned the starlings out of the barn. I still have the 870, and have had for almost 30 years now!

  3. #33
    Marksman

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    I work for a construction company, and we do a lot of DFAR work, and last year the ‘Mil-Spec’ was a grade of pipe that was obsolete by decades. We requested a substitution for an upgraded pipe that was both cheaper and much stronger with tighter tolerances. That’s not always the case we have some stainless piping that is line honed and imported from France to the tune in 6k per linear foot in some cases. In this case nothing short of the absolute best piping available. Is it overkill? Well I’m no engineer, but my boss is and he laughs all the way to the bank.

    We all remember the M17 met ‘spec’ and one the contest, but there are tons of great duty pistols that would have met spec if they didn’t require a dummy lever. I don’t know the requirements of the shotty competition, but ‘mil-spec’ for me is a good starting point on the AR platform.

  4. #34
    All or nothing

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    Contrary to popular belief, a head shot is not necessarily a guaranteed kill shot....but it sure does take the fight out of 'em.

    and if one in every 100,000,000 M&M's contained enough cyanide to kill a person, the Mars candy company would be forced by public outcry to correct it———
    Bangswitch

  5. #35
    ESSAYONS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    I find it funny they include the ambidextrous tang safety as an advantages of the 500 and include a picture that makes the tang safety a disadvantage.

  6. #36
    All or nothing

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    Maybe in a perfect world shotguns would have Glock triggers and no safety switches...
    I remember when the speed feed stocks hit the market and folks were raving about them. The first one I picked up had that 2 extra rounds right there on the breach side of the buttstock. All I could think about was how I loaded with my left hand while keeping my firing hand firmly on the grip. How difficult and cumbersome it must be to even try to load on the fly from that ammo stash. Never the less, those two extra rounds were there in the stock. Two more than I had in my pocket or belt or what have you.
    I have a few questions about the safety thing: I understand if you choose a pistol gripped stock for your shotgun and then realize you can’t actually use your shooting hand to operate a top tang safety while holding the gun in a ready to fire position, but...
    Who actually shoulders a shotgun or has it at the ready in a defensive situation or in combat and hasn’t already disengaged the safety? Do those people also wait until taking fire to rack the slide and chamber a round?
    If those people load the way I do, right hand on the grip, trigger finger beside the trigger guard, left hand pushing rounds up the tube, is it taboo in their book to just reach up with the loading hand and thumb the safety?
    Of all the different safety switches on firearms, is this really the one that would make you afraid to depend on such a dependable firearm or is there another reason for making such a fuss over a safety?
    I’ll take 3000 rounds with no failures.
    Last edited by Magdump; August 26th, 2019 at 03:52 AM.
    Contrary to popular belief, a head shot is not necessarily a guaranteed kill shot....but it sure does take the fight out of 'em.

    and if one in every 100,000,000 M&M's contained enough cyanide to kill a person, the Mars candy company would be forced by public outcry to correct it———
    Bangswitch

  7. #37
    No sir, I ain't.

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    Both are fine for whatever task. I prefer the 500 for the tang safety. If I ran a pistol grip configuration, I'd want the crossbolt safety. That's really about all there is to them.
    Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop.

  8. #38
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    Maybe in a perfect world shotguns would have Glock triggers and no safety switches...
    I remember when the speed feed stocks hit the market and folks were raving about them. The first one I picked up had that 2 extra rounds right there on the breach side of the buttstock. All I could think about was how I loaded with my left hand while keeping my firing hand firmly on the grip. How difficult and cumbersome it must be to even try to load on the fly from that ammo stash. Never the less, those two extra rounds were there in the stock. Two more than I had in my pocket or belt or what have you.
    I have a few questions about the safety thing: I understand if you choose a pistol gripped stock for your shotgun and then realize you can’t actually use your shooting hand to operate a top tang safety while holding the gun in a ready to fire position, but...
    Who actually shoulders a shotgun or has it at the ready in a defensive situation or in combat and hasn’t already disengaged the safety? Do those people also wait until taking fire to rack the slide and chamber a round?
    If those people load the way I do, right hand on the grip, trigger finger beside the trigger guard, left hand pushing rounds up the tube, is it taboo in their book to just reach up with the loading hand and thumb the safety?
    Of all the different safety switches on firearms, is this really the one that would make you afraid to depend on such a dependable firearm or is there another reason for making such a fuss over a safety?
    I’ll take 3000 rounds with no failures.
    Honestly, all long guns should have safeties because you can’t put them in holsters and shit happens. That’s why I don’t mind the Glock safety, because the trigger is protected with a round chambered, by the holster. I’ve personally seen stuff like the stick on a tourniquet catch the trigger on an AR-15 while the rifle is slung.

    When I was still shooting shotguns I kept the safety on, until I was bringing the shotgun up to level and as it came up, safety off. That’s my biggest gripe with the mossberg stuff. Can’t do the same with it, without giving up the pistol grip.

    There is also a lot to be said for being really good at a limited number of things. It’s why I only shoot Glock pistols and AR-15s. It’s also why when I still shot shotguns I preferred pistol grips. It’s just easier to use something well if you use the same things all the time.

    Lots of people shoot lots of guns really really well and I wouldn’t knock anyone for using a mossberg, it’s just not for me is all.

  9. #39
    crusty old bastard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    A few things, saying milspec doesn’t mean anything, is entirely different than saying *some things are made better than milspec and some things are made worse*. The first is nonsense the second is obvious.

    Second, just because it was the only weapon submitted doesn’t mean they have to select it. They have the option of rejecting all offerings.

    I don’t think anyone is saying *____ is milspec, so it is the best option possible*, people are saying *____ is milspec, so there is a standard by which it is made, if you’re okay with that standard or want something different is your choice, but you at least know exactly what you’re getting*.

    I’m actually not a mossberg fan myself, I don’t like the position of the safety. I’m not a shotgun fan at all, I prefer shooting ARs. Me telling you that you’re wrong when you say milspec means nothing and it’s just a marketing tool isn’t coming from a place of me liking mossberg or anything else, it’s coming from a place of *You are wrong, it quite literally means something, it means the item is made to a specific standard*.

    Might wanna deflate that chest a little bit, nobody is all wound up about this. The bit about *class dismissed* when you were clearly talking out of your ass and don’t understand what other people are trying to tell you just makes you look like a child.
    Ah......the ad hominum rejoinder. I admit freely that I sometimes come across as pedantic-but I see it as more didactic (my wife and children might disagree).Go back and read the FIRST post of this thread. Then read my responses.The poor guy probably did not realize that Mossburg was the ONLY gun in the "competition" and based his decision in large part because Mossburg "won." Buy a gun because you LIKE it and DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Mossburg's claim IS disingenuous and that kind of stuff by ANYONE selling product does piss me off. As I tell my clients-DO YOUR HOMEWORK because most of the time you are your own worst enemy. I like Mossburg but I already own an 870, won a Winchester SXP that I a still have not even put together and still lust over a BPS/Ithaca so I really don't need a Mossburg. The last time I handled one was their shockwave (or whatever they call it). I liked it and if I was gonna buy one, I'd buy it over the 870. But I'm gonna hold off for a V3 TAC3. If I am gonna buy a toy like that I want MAXIMUM firepower!
    Last edited by CAJUNLAWYER; August 26th, 2019 at 07:12 AM.
    Stay thirsty my friends

  10. #40
    ESSAYONS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    A few things, saying milspec doesn’t mean anything, is entirely different than saying *some things are made better than milspec and some things are made worse*. The first is nonsense the second is obvious.

    Second, just because it was the only weapon submitted doesn’t mean they have to select it. They have the option of rejecting all offerings.

    I don’t think anyone is saying *____ is milspec, so it is the best option possible*, people are saying *____ is milspec, so there is a standard by which it is made, if you’re okay with that standard or want something different is your choice, but you at least know exactly what you’re getting*.

    I’m actually not a mossberg fan myself, I don’t like the position of the safety. I’m not a shotgun fan at all, I prefer shooting ARs. Me telling you that you’re wrong when you say milspec means nothing and it’s just a marketing tool isn’t coming from a place of me liking mossberg or anything else, it’s coming from a place of *You are wrong, it quite literally means something, it means the item is made to a specific standard*.

    Might wanna deflate that chest a little bit, nobody is all wound up about this. The bit about *class dismissed* when you were clearly talking out of your ass and don’t understand what other people are trying to tell you just makes you look like a child.
    Quote Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER View Post
    Ah......the ad hominum rejoinder. I admit freely that I sometimes come across as pedantic-but I see it as more didactic (my wife and children might disagree).Go back and read the FIRST post of this thread. Then read my responses.The poor guy probably did not realize that Mossburg was the ONLY gun in the "competition" and based his decision in large part because Mossburg "won." Buy a gun because you LIKE it and DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Mossburg's claim IS disingenuous and that kind of stuff by ANYONE selling product does piss me off. As I tell my clients-DO YOUR HOMEWORK because most of the time you are your own worst enemy. I like Mossburg but I already own an 870, won a Winchester SXP that I a still have not even put together and still lust over a BPS/Ithaca so I really don't need a Mossburg. The last time I handled one was their shockwave (or whatever they call it). I liked it and if I was gonna buy one, I'd buy it over the 870. But I'm gonna hold off for a V3 TAC3. If I am gonna buy a toy like that I want MAXIMUM firepower!
    Actually, it's not ad hominum. He did not direct his argument directly at you. Instead, he addressed your points with counter points.

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