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  1. #51
    All or nothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by thperez1972 View Post
    Having the ability to easily disengage the safety is not comparable to not having the chamber loaded. Don't try to confuse the issue.

    Even if you always shoulder the shotgun with the safety disengaged, you have to disengage it at some point. Are you saying you can't think of any instances where one might want to move with the safety on to a location while having the ability to easily disengage the safety if needed? Even in combat, do you think the soldiers disengage the safety the moment they step or drive out the wire? Sitting in their vehicles, they are absolutely going to have the safety on.

    One can reach up with their loading hand and thumb the safety, sure. But disengaging the safety, in my opinion, should not be a two handed operation. I can't think of any firearm that requires the off hand to disengage the safety, especially not a firearm that is utilized in a defensive manner. And I view it as two handed because you have to hold the shotgun with one hand while a second hand manipulates the safety.

    At no point did I say I was afraid of the tang safety. It's a good and reliable safety that is mechanically better than the cross bolt safety. But saying "A" is better than "B" doesn't matter if "B" is reliable. Reliability is a binary test. It is either reliable or it isn't. If the bolt safety were not reliable, I doubt the Remington would have been selected by so many police agencies and military units (that have a choice). While the tang safety is good, it's outdated. It limits the options available to the shooter. If you believe the pistol grip has no place on a shotgun, please feel free to address the number of advantages of a pistol grip I posted in a previous post. If you agree the pistol grip has its place on a shotgun in some situations, it's unreasonable to say the tang safety is as convenient and as easy to disengage as a cross bolt safety.

    Are you implying a Remington 870 cannot shoot 3000 rounds without a failure just because they didn't submit a shotgun to the trial?
    Quote Originally Posted by thperez1972 View Post
    Ok...say what you want. But you try to post false equivalences, you're likely to get called out. As far as Mossberg being the only one to pass the test, that hasn't been relevant in 20 years. That specification was inactivated in 1995 and doesn't seem to have been replaced. In the meantime, military units have been able to choose various shotguns as needed. Some units picked a benelli with the designation M1014, some a remington with the designation M870, and some the mossberg with the designations M500, M590, or M590A1. Even if Remington entered but didn't pass the 3443G specs, those are 26 year old specs and that hasn't stopped the 870 from being one of the official military shotguns to have been proven in combat. Members of all branches use the 870 and the 500. They are both proven in combat. That holds true for different law enforcement agencies as well. Some use the 500, some the 870, and some use something else. They both have their pros and cons. With respect to the remington and the 3443G specs, it's fine that you don't buy that they threw in the towel. After all, if that were true, it would undermine your initial post that the durability and dependability standards were too high for them.

    But, hey...if you want to cling to an irrelevant 26 year old standard, you do you man. I'm happy to have a choice of durable and dependable combat proven shotguns to choose from.
    LMAO!
    I wanna reply but my stomach hurts from laughing. I’m not here for the same reasons as you, clearly. I bet you’re plenty fun at parties.
    Just try to see me as the special needs kid who randomly yells out, ‘I like Mossbergs!’


    I’m sure someone appreciates your endless argument, but I seriously doubt they simply come here for that.
    I like Mossberg pump guns. They are my favorite. While your points took up a lot of space here I find them self serving and simply your opinions. They don’t influence my opinion of anything but you. I’m not sorry if my opinions on a particular shotgun inflame you or do not conform to your beliefs. I wish you felt the same about my opinions instead of turning every thread into a pissing match mr moderator..
    After all, I wasn’t uh... directing my argument(?) directly at you. I was just addressing your pointless points with counterpoints...or something... I think.
    Last question: Having taken such a stance on the Mossberg, how can you continue to own one?
    Last edited by Magdump; August 26th, 2019 at 05:08 PM.
    Contrary to popular belief, a head shot is not necessarily a guaranteed kill shot....but it sure does take the fight out of 'em.

    and if one in every 100,000,000 M&M's contained enough cyanide to kill a person, the Mars candy company would be forced by public outcry to correct it———
    Bangswitch

  2. #52
    ESSAYONS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Can we all just agree that a quality AR-15 is better than a shotgun for everything but door breaching
    And for door breaching, you can get a Knight's Armament 12-gauge Masterkey, a modified Remington 870 Police Magnum.


  3. #53
    ESSAYONS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    Last question: Having taken such a stance on the Mossberg, how can you continue to own one?
    For the same reason I got it and the same reason I got the 870. They're dependable. I have not yet felt the need to get rid of a dependable weapon simply because its design limits its functionality. I can always find a role for it that takes into account its limitations.

  4. #54
    All or nothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by thperez1972 View Post
    For the same reason I got it and the same reason I got the 870. They're dependable. I have not yet felt the need to get rid of a dependable weapon simply because its design limits its functionality. I can always find a role for it that takes into account its limitations.
    Surprise surprise....I had gathered that you considered the Mossberg utterly useless due to the unacceptable lack of an ergonomic safety location. I don’t know how on earth I could have come to such a conclusion. My mistake. Unless you’re just posturing in an attempt to keep the sale price of yours at a premium. No worries, I’ll give you fair market value for it.
    Contrary to popular belief, a head shot is not necessarily a guaranteed kill shot....but it sure does take the fight out of 'em.

    and if one in every 100,000,000 M&M's contained enough cyanide to kill a person, the Mars candy company would be forced by public outcry to correct it———
    Bangswitch

  5. #55
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Can we all just agree that a quality AR-15 is better than a shotgun for everything but door breaching
    What about wing-shooting and Turkey hunting.

  6. #56
    ESSAYONS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    Surprise surprise....I had gathered that you considered the Mossberg utterly useless due to the unacceptable lack of an ergonomic safety location. I don’t know how on earth I could have come to such a conclusion. My mistake. Unless you’re just posturing in an attempt to keep the sale price of yours at a premium. No worries, I’ll give you fair market value for it.
    When we were overseas, my unit issues them and they worked well. I didn't personally use it, I had the M203 for a while. But I never saw it have any issues. I don't believe the 500 is utterly useless and I don't remember implying it was either. I just don't believe it rises unequaled above all others and has no flaws. And I don't put more stock in the results of a 26 year old inactive standard when both the 500 and 870 have proven themselves in real world scenarios with both the military and law enforcement.

  7. #57
    On Target

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    I like whatever shotgun they use on demo-ranch videos to shoot crazy stuff out of like batteries or marbles.

  8. #58
    crusty old bastard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    I don’t see what any of this has to do with me saying you were incorrect when you said milspec doesn’t mean anything. It’s why I don’t think you’re a pedant, because you’re avoiding that detail so much. I also don’t think you’re a didactic person, to teach one needs to know. You’re a guy who was wrong on the internet, thats all. Not a big deal, just own it and move on.

    By the way, kudos for using pedantic and didactic here, you’ve proven yourself to be quite the sesquipedalianist.
    NOW we're having fun!!!!!!!!!
    Stay thirsty my friends

  9. #59
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    What about wing-shooting and Turkey hunting.
    AR-15 one shots the bird, no shot to find in it, knocks the feathers off, brines it, seasons it, ties the legs, and roasts that ****er up with exactly 62 grains of pepper.

  10. #60
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    AR-15 one shots the bird, no shot to find in it, knocks the feathers off, brines it, seasons it, ties the legs, and roasts that ****er up with exactly 62 grains of pepper.
    Well done sir. Well done!

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