Join BayouShooter For Free

View Poll Results: What do you choose for home defense?

Voters
54. You may not vote on this poll
  • Pistol

    38 70.37%
  • Rifle

    12 22.22%
  • Shotgun

    12 22.22%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 19 of 32 FirstFirst ... 918192029 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 190 of 316
  1. #181
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by thperez1972 View Post
    So you read his reply and decided to start doing a little trolling.?



    You're not sure what you got wrong when it is pointed out.
    I got it trolling is a no no. But you said I got a lot wrong. Accounting for my trolling already what specifically did I post that was incorrect or was logically flawed?

  2. #182
    Marksman

    Premium Member

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    what specifically did I post that was incorrect or was logically flawed?
    Every single time you assumed this thread was about suppressed short barrel rifles.

  3. #183
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    Every single time you assumed this thread was about suppressed short barrel rifles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    All three serve a purpose in and around my house. Shotguns full of 4buck or 000, pistols, AR full of FBI loads. Just depends on what stretch of house I’m at and what’s closest, but always a pistol at my fingertips. I do prefer a shotty if I’m in a fixed position, if for no other reason than stopping power.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    What is stopping power?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    look it up
    [QUOTE=jhal23;1681677]All I found was a million posts about how it's a myth.

    The folks at Federal seem to agree.

    [/QUOTE]

    You and magdump have an exchange in which you attempted to best him but you logic doesn’t add up so I pointed that out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    That video doesn’t discuss shotgun ammunition how does it disprove anything?

    Note my personal choice was my 9mm, but 00buck slings 12 .33 caliber pellets at handgun speeds. Each pellet weigh roughly 41 grains. By the way there is 0000 but I think you might get 6 pellets if you are lucky (never handloaded that stuff).

    If you want to call ‘stopping power’ a myth I argue it’s more of a nebulous term than a myth but that’s fine. But there is a massive amount of force exerted in often a golf ball size area using a 12ga.

    Have you ever seen someone or something shot with 00buck? It’s friggin nasty especially if it’s followed by multiple shells. More Vinson is lost to buck shot every year running dogs than the average person would eat in a lifetime.
    Here I gave you facts and logic that help to explain and provide context to the nebulous term so often referred to when discussing a 12ga.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    There is a small snippet where rifle ammunition is mentioned in regards to projectile velocity while discussing the elasticity of human tissue. Although they don't specifically mention shotgun ammunition, the video is relevant to the discussion.

    I'm not arguing that it's a myth. I'm simply asking for clarification on the context of what Magdump was referring to. From his other post, he is of the opinion that the term relates to muzzle energy. I have no further questions in regards to that. I will agree that it's an ambiguous term.
    Here you shifted the discussion to rifles. And you obsession with your sbr became part of the discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    But you used that video to refute ‘stopping power’ as a myth. I watched the whole video it was pretty good.

    It is absolutely an ambiguous term. But I can testify to having drilled a deer in the shoulder bone with a large rifle and it broke there spine. That was that was from impact not the wound channel.

    Additionally I don’t like gel to compare chest cavity wounding. I know it’s a fairly reliable medium but it really doesn’t compare with my experience doing my own little autopsies on the animals I’ve shot. And that may be that I normally shoot animals with large lungs protected by boney shoulders.
    Here I try to explain how the expanding and collapsing would channel in gel is the *sizzle* and not the steak.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    Ballistics gel is simply a controlled medium used when testing performance metrics. It's not a direct comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    I get that but what I’ve seen the gel isn’t a good analog for the chest cavity. Guts probably.

    I know we need something standard to make fair comparisons, but I’m just not seeing giant sound channels and I’ve skinned deer killed with several calibers and types of projectiles. I’ve began to believe the instant incapacitation has everything to do with impact.

    Another interesting thing is stabilization. When the M16 first came out the twist rate was so slow the bullet tumbled and yawed on impact. From memory I believe it had a devastating effect on the victim.
    I give you a great example of ballistic design and the use of tumbling to increase wound channel. If the 5.56 left such a gaping mess in its wake why would early designs off the AR be designed to tumble on impact
    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    Decades of ballistics studies, gel testing, and real world performance disagree with your assertion.

    Deer are not a good comparison to human anatomy. Strangely, pigs are close. Shooting a swine with a 556 duty round is rather interesting. Inspecting the cavity is eye opening.

    Banking on instantly incapacitating an aggressor is a rather low probability regardless of a chosen caliber. If you can cut the cord and turn off the lights with a single shot, caliber is irrelevant. Stacking the odds in your favor is desirable.
    Here you put words in my mouth. I had told you based on my real word experiences the extreme cavitation did not translate to game animals the way you seemed to believe.
    Then you talk about pig anatomy being closer to ours than deer.
    The you proceed to a strawman argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by JBP55 View Post
    Is HE back again with a different name?
    Someone else is catching on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    You are missing my point a rifle wound is not what you seem to think it is. Yes the muscle tissue turns to goo, but it can also pass right through. There is also the major factor of the impact.

    You seem to think I’m interested in cutting down a rifles ability. I like rifles. I have a few. I use them more than shotguns or handguns. My preferred defensive weapon for things that bump in the night is the gun I carry every day not because it’s the biggest or baddest. Not because it’s a one shot drop. Not because it chucks 1.125oz of lead. No, because it’s a good compromise that allows me to retain my hearing, that I’m quite comfortable with, and I can operate it with one hand.

    I was simply pointing out to you that a 12ga full of buck shot can do significant damage, probably more than a 5.56 inside 30 feet.

    But hey it’s ok you can use your 5.56 in your house I’m not gonna be offended.
    I attempt to rehabilitate you and explain my choice in weapon with a touch if levity and a lot of logic.

    And remind you that my whole point was that a 12ga could do significant damage and at shorter distances far more than an AR.


    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    When is the last time you patterned at shotgun at a closer distances?

    Shotguns, pistols, and rifles will all produce noise levels well beyond what is deemed safe, especially indoors. Rifles and pistols can be suppressed. Shotguns can also be suppressed, but the OAL is increased greatly.

    You claim:



    Yet you are relying heavily on hit probability.
    Then you go right back to bias statements and asking irrelevant questions

    Then you and I did a little dance for funsies
    And we are back on topic
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    This statement is intended to create bias as if I need to pattern a 12ga at 5 and 10 feet to know its barely leaving the wading



    This statement biases against a shotgun based on the forgone conclusion that everyone can and is willing to own a suppressor. Additionally the db's produced by a suppressed rifle with supersonic ammo can still cause short term hearing loss, because not all cans are created equally. Most handguns will only cause short term hearing loss. People like me who suffer from tinnitus cringe at the possibility if firing anything indoors. Personally I don't own a can and I dang sure aint cutting loose a 5.56 round indoors.




    You say hit probability is important for a shotgun. I'm here to tell you brother its important regardless your choice. I remind you inside 30 feet with a full choke, a shotgun is not a scatter gun. Even at 50 feet and a modified choke (basically a straight bore) groups tighter than most men are wide.



    You entered the conversation with a lot of biases (that seems to be your thing) that is preventing you from seeing that a properly set up shotgun isn't a "fud gun". I don't personally have a properly set up shotgun nor do I own a suppressor to make firing a 5.56 indoors a remote possibility.

    Additionally, you like to use semantics and take things out of context in effort to annoy and irritate your opponent. This is a crutch. As an opponent I would say carry on, no need to improve you skill set, but as a fellow gun enthusiast I urge you to work harder because, I would really hate for you to be arguing with the rare intelligent lefty and lose because you skills never matured.
    I explained you bias and explained why the my recent patterning experience was irrelevant.
    I then tried to give you advise on trying to have a logical discussion when you disagree. Hopefully that didn’t trigger you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    So you're saying that standing on a static range shooting your shotgun at random things isn't training or preparing you to defend yourself?
    You were still singling out shotguns for some reason
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    Another bias statement shooting any gun at a range at a static target isn't enough to constitute training for defensive or even most offensive shooting, its where you begin and its where you refresh you fundamentals. If static range practice was of no use, the military and departments all across the globe would save trillions of dollars. Its just a piece of the puzzle. Its a big piece, but its still just a piece.
    I pointed it out yet again
    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    The military and LE agencies around the globe also train in team environments, classroom environments, and in shoot houses with live fire and sims. Your attempt at justifying a lack of training being sufficient shows ignorance.

    I have no objection to anyone who chooses to limit themselves. I do, however, have an objection to the ideology that limited to no training is "good enough."
    You thought it would be fun to put words in my mouth again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    I find your reading comprehension objectionable. Go back requote me and show me where I said punching paper is good enough.
    Poked you about your reading skills. Sorry hope you weren’t offended.
    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    There are actually three choices to choose from. All have distinct advantages and disadvantages.

    I'm curious about why one would select each specific choice. I'm not curious about opinions based on mythology and an unwillingness to have a discussion. AustinBR has already stated that some of the members here have stated that they refuse to be swayed regardless of what facts are presented.

    I'm sorry if you look at this thread as a personal attack.
    You talk about other peoples bias after countless attempts to bias a conversation
    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    Unfortunately, the question at hand wasn't directed towards you. You chose to interject into the conversation. I understand if you want to white knight for a mate, but it's irrelevant to the discussion.
    You deflected something I took you to task for. I can’t catch it all eventually I will have to work some today

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    You should really pull your head out your backside. I have openly disagreed with MagDump on more than one occasion the quote he runs in his sig was from a conversation were we disagreed extensively. What I don't like is how you continually trash talking a perfectly good weapon because you feel your choice is the better option. I reminds me of a forum I frequented for years call pirate4x4. If you paid attention on there you saw the same bull crap opposite spectrum arguments one guy would act like you needed a diesel dually to pull a bass boat, while another would make you think your hardbody Nissan could pull a house. Both ends were equally wrong.

    The difference here is you make it out to be the only way a man could possibly ever be able to protect himself and his family is if he has a suppressed sbr and practiced doing countless bill drills and shoot and moves. The deal is, a lot of people don't have the time and money to get set up and be that kind of effective with the type of gear you propose we all need. But the good news is there are plenty of options and while there is no substitute for good training you don't have to be billy bad ass to be effective in every scenario. The scenario that it appears you are ever vigilant for is the the most extreme.

    I said it to you back in February when you used another handle I carry a 9mm Shield with me every where I can legally carry it. My house is much safer than many places I go. So yes my shield is more than enough gun to be my primary in most home defense scenarios. In the event it is not I could step up to a larger handgun or one of my AR's and suffer the additional hearing loss.
    I attempted to explain why it was so important to me that you stop bashing on a 12ga as a short range defensive weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhal23 View Post
    Sounds like you're taking this personally.

    I'd like to get back on topic.
    You acting as if drug anything of topic was pretty funny

    I have to actually get some crap done so I’m gonna stop rehashing here for now, but hopefully this explains my confusion.
    Last edited by Bangswitch; October 10th, 2019 at 08:03 AM.

  4. #184
    ESSAYONS

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    I got it trolling is a no no. But you said I got a lot wrong. Accounting for my trolling already what specifically did I post that was incorrect or was logically flawed?
    One of the unintended consequences of engaging in a trolling campaign is you have now painted all of your replies as unreliable. Every time you post something a reader disagrees with and would like to discuss, the reader has to assume there's a possibility you're purposefully posted erroneous information. And that directly affects your question to me. I can easily point out some of the logical flaws but I'd be wasting my time. You would either try to explain how you didn't mean what you said or you would dismiss it as part of your trolling campaign. Unless you go back and make all of your trolling posts, you have given yourself the opportunity to remove any personal responsibility for your words. It comes at the expense of your credibility but you can at least claim you weren't wrong.

  5. #185
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by thperez1972 View Post
    One of the unintended consequences of engaging in a trolling campaign is you have now painted all of your replies as unreliable. Every time you post something a reader disagrees with and would like to discuss, the reader has to assume there's a possibility you're purposefully posted erroneous information. And that directly affects your question to me. I can easily point out some of the logical flaws but I'd be wasting my time. You would either try to explain how you didn't mean what you said or you would dismiss it as part of your trolling campaign. Unless you go back and make all of your trolling posts, you have given yourself the opportunity to remove any personal responsibility for your words. It comes at the expense of your credibility but you can at least claim you weren't wrong.
    Valid point. I’ve made my fair share of satirical statements but that’s usually pretty obvious. I thought for certain someone would eventually have the epiphany that I was screwing around, I thought I had made it pretty evident with hashtags and what I though was very obvious sarcasm. But you guys kept taking the bait. I’m sorry I should have stopped it sooner.

  6. #186
    -Administrator-
    Make your own luck

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    Valid point. I’ve made my fair share of satirical statements but that’s usually pretty obvious. I thought for certain someone would eventually have the epiphany that I was screwing around, I thought I had made it pretty evident with hashtags and what I though was very obvious sarcasm. But you guys kept taking the bait. I’m sorry I should have stopped it sooner.
    I think you just won the award for the longest post of the month, in post 183 above.
    -- Austin

    "There is no "i" in team but there is in win. "
    --Michael Jordan


    Failing to plan is planning to fail.

  7. #187
    ESSAYONS

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    Valid point. I’ve made my fair share of satirical statements but that’s usually pretty obvious. I thought for certain someone would eventually have the epiphany that I was screwing around, I thought I had made it pretty evident with hashtags and what I though was very obvious sarcasm. But you guys kept taking the bait. I’m sorry I should have stopped it sooner.
    So it's everyone else's fault. We're all the stupid ones. Got it. I'm not sure if that approach is the best way to regain credibility. Why don't you show us idiots all of the hashtags we missed that would have let us know that particular reply was part of your trolling campaign.

  8. #188
    -Administrator-
    Make your own luck

    User Info Menu

    So who here has actually moved through their house (for practice) with a weapon (ideally unloaded) in the past year?

    Though you may know your house better than someone who is breaking in, it is still imperative to know sightlines and the various forms of cover and concealment. Every advantage you can give yourself is one that you take away from unknown adversaries.
    -- Austin

    "There is no "i" in team but there is in win. "
    --Michael Jordan


    Failing to plan is planning to fail.

  9. #189
    Marksman

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by thperez1972 View Post
    So it's everyone else's fault. We're all the stupid ones. Got it. I'm not sure if that approach is the best way to regain credibility. Why don't you show us idiots all of the hashtags we missed that would have let us know that particular reply was part of your trolling campaign.
    Not my point at all. I was quite specific when I said ‘I thought’. I evidently was seeing things a little bias. It looked pretty evident to me however I knew what I was up to. I apologize for catfishing you and a few other people. It was funny to me at the time, and I meant no harm.

  10. #190
    La. CHP Instructor #409

    Premium Member

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by AustinBR View Post
    So who here has actually moved through their house (for practice) with a weapon (ideally unloaded) in the past year?

    Though you may know your house better than someone who is breaking in, it is still imperative to know sightlines and the various forms of cover and concealment. Every advantage you can give yourself is one that you take away from unknown adversaries.
    And practice at night with no lights on.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •