It's Your Ammo Not Your Pistol!

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  • AustinBR

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    15   0   0
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    But;

    1. You know for certain you are NOT going to die going into it. SIP factor is considerably lower.
    2. This logic does not apply to everything in humanity and science.

    Key: SIP = **** in pants!

    :D

    I really would try it. I've seen videos of it and it looks like a hoot! I actually almost bought me some simunitions to try for myself. As I was shopping for it and reading about the specs I thought to myself; "hmm, I wonder what retard I know that I would actually trust shooting these at me?" :mamoru:

    Not sure why I never went ahead and got them?!?

    I agree, but it is as close as you'll get without actually getting shot at.

    While it might not apply directly to everything, in this case, it does apply. Getting better at fundamentals will always help. Getting better at poor tactics is bad.

    As for getting Sim rounds, you also have to get a few things to modify your pistol. They won't shoot out of a standard pistol, for safety reasons. Even then, it's best to use them under the supervision of a professional.
     

    Emperor

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    I agree, but it is as close as you'll get without actually getting shot at.

    While it might not apply directly to everything, in this case, it does apply. Getting better at fundamentals will always help. Getting better at poor tactics is bad.

    As for getting Sim rounds, you also have to get a few things to modify your pistol. They won't shoot out of a standard pistol, for safety reasons. Even then, it's best to use them under the supervision of a professional.

    Oh he's good, Clem! He's real good! :p

    As for fundamentals; no doubt! Things as simple as not muzzle sweeping, keeping your finger outside the trigger guard, showing up to shoot without ear/eye protection, etc. Can't get more basically fundamental than those, but I see it all the time. :(
     

    MOTOR51

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    Can’t we just get back to using bayoushooter as a gun enthusiast craigslist? We have tried this “discussion” crap before and it always leads to the same group clubbing someone for not taking formal training blah blah blah. And to the guy who said he actually learned he should have been practicing off hand, you really could have gotten that off of a YouTube video. And for the love of god can someone agree with Austin that force on force is the most awesomest thing in the world


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    AustinBR

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    Can’t we just get back to using bayoushooter as a gun enthusiast craigslist? We have tried this *discussion* crap before and it always leads to the same group clubbing someone for not taking formal training blah blah blah. And to the guy who said he actually learned he should have been practicing off hand, you really could have gotten that off of a YouTube video. And for the love of god can someone agree with Austin that force on force is the most awesomest thing in the world

    Well, I don't think it's the absolute most awesomest thing...that'd probably be sipping something in a pineapple on a beach...or some bourbon by a nice campfire.
     

    MOTOR51

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    Well, I don't think it's the absolute most awesomest thing...that'd probably be sipping something in a pineapple on a beach...or some bourbon by a nice campfire.

    That sounds like your profile on tinder


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    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Perhaps you missed it earlier that I am not constrained financially. I was underscoring your apparent disdain for, or disappointment in, people who own or have firearms that have no formal training as a whole. Offering different reasons why some can't.

    I did mention that I just didn't get around to it! ;)
    I get you man. And I’ll add that (since it’s coming up so often) there are apparently people here that will dismiss your opinions no matter how much training you’ve had and what type you’ve had or what life experiences you’ve survived because you haven’t produced your interwebz operator pedigree. Those who assume way too much about a member or decide theirs is the only opinion that matters and that you’d better be ready to provide nine kinds of evidence based reports on your every opinion or preference... yeah, those guys offer no service here whatsoever IN MY OPINION and are often guilty of the same things they accuse others of. Many people here have already expressed how sick they are of being called out or challenged or shunned for any remark that doesn’t agree with a precious few other folks here. My question is, who are these people that think it’s ok to be so condescending or provoking or trolling in so many threads and ultimately wind up derailing any sort of civil or productive discussion? I don’t mean what is their name, I mean what are their credentials that put them head and shoulders above anyone else here and why do they think their opinions are supreme or even matter to anyone? What if I start assuming that those people are in charge of absolutely nothing in their own life except a keyboard? Running solely on Google fu to argue every point they can, oblivious to all their insults and in complete denial as to how they just stir the pot. The authority on zero but commanding respect where none is due. What if I’m absolutely correct in my assumptions and simply answer all queries about my opinions and preferences with, ‘just because’, ‘none of your bidness’ or ‘I don’t know you well enough for that’? I wonder if those offenders could respect something that simple.... I doubt it. And I don’t even need to know why.
     
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    MOTOR51

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    I get you man. And I’ll add that (since it’s coming up so often) there are apparently people here that will dismiss your opinions no matter how much training you’ve had and what type you’ve had or what life experiences you’ve survived because you haven’t produced your interwebz operator pedigree. Those who assume way too much about a member or decide theirs is the only opinion that matters and that you’d better be ready to provide nine kinds of evidence based reports on your every opinion or preference... yeah, those guys offer no service here whatsoever IN MY OPINION and are often guilty of the same things they accuse others of. Many people here have already expressed how sick they are of being called out or challenged or shunned for any remark that doesn’t agree with a precious few other folks here. My question is, who are these people that think it’s ok to be so condescending or provoking or trolling in so many threads and ultimately wind up derailing any sort of civil or productive discussion? I don’t mean what is their name, I mean what are their credentials that put them head and shoulders above anyone else here and why do they think their opinions are supreme or even matter to anyone? What if I start assuming that those people are in charge of absolutely nothing in their own life except a keyboard? Running solely on Google fu to argue every point they can, oblivious to all their insults and in complete denial as to how they just stir the pot. The authority on zero but commanding respect where none is due. What if I’m absolutely correct in my assumptions and simply answer all queries about my opinions and preferences with, ‘just because’, ‘none of your bidness’ or ‘I don’t know you well enough for that’? I wonder if those offenders could respect something that simple.... I doubt it. And I don’t even need to know why.

    Seeing proof will never happen. Hell there is a well known local trainer who everybody loves that has a questionable background and pedigree but people throw money at him all the time, then come here and act like an expert because they took his class. Oh, and just because you took a class doesn’t make you an expert. Remember the people telling you how great you are doing is also getting paid by you. I doubt a trainer would get much repeat business if he told people they sucked and would be safer with a sling shot. I’ve been to training at work and witnessed people get their units taken until they get remedial training but I’ve yet to hear of anybody suggesting they sell their guns because they are unsafe.


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    machinedrummer

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    Shooting while getting off the X worked for the cowboys and Indians on horseback. I would think anyone who isn’t a tier one guru might find themselves hammering the trigger while retreating to cover or just trying to get away. Over the shoulder, under the leg, trying to bend bullets around corners. I guess until u r in it for real who knows. Fight for survival will cause many different options to come into play even if they aren’t *flat range approved*. Anyway thanks for the ammo info.
     

    buttanic

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    I bolded two statements:

    1) Force-on-Force classes will give you an almost real dose of someone pulling a gun on you, with the intention of shooting you. It's also a lot more fun than running through a backyard shooting at paper/steel targets.

    2) Practice does NOT make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Practicing bad techniques makes one better at doing bad techniques. It also engrains bad skills and mindsets that are harder to break with practice of good techniques.



    I have said this many times. It doesn't apply just to shooting.
     

    Emperor

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    Can’t we just get back to using bayoushooter as a gun enthusiast craigslist? We have tried this “discussion” crap before and it always leads to the same group clubbing someone for not taking formal training blah blah blah. And to the guy who said he actually learned he should have been practicing off hand, you really could have gotten that off of a YouTube video. And for the love of god can someone agree with Austin that force on force is the most awesomest thing in the world

    :chuckles:
     

    Troedoff

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    I understand fully what you are saying about practicing how you carry. I do however have some questions about the technique you are practicing. At what range, and by range I mean distance are you running from said target? If it is not far enough to successfully execute a retreat without blind firing, wouldn't you have a better chance with superior marksmanship in a stand up battle? Wouldn't you be better off moving and shooting laterally, while maintaining some sort of proper shooting stance while seeking cover? I am nobody, but if you were far enough to turn and run, I'd argue you would probably be better off turning and running with focus on that rather than dividing your attention. While I could think of some scenario where the suppression fire would be warranted, as I have humorously explained in a previous post. It is not in any situation but a war zone.

    trying to run from a bear while shooting, or any wild animal for that matter, is trusting your life to luck. You'd have to be lucky to land a killing shot on a moving wild animal, while in motion running away blind firing. I guarantee you won't outrun them, so the best you can hope for is they give up, which is not likely once pursuit is on. Running from wild animals is not the best way to deter them from eating you.
     

    Emperor

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    I get you man. And I’ll add that (since it’s coming up so often) there are apparently people here that will dismiss your opinions no matter how much training you’ve had and what type you’ve had or what life experiences you’ve survived because you haven’t produced your interwebz operator pedigree. Those who assume way too much about a member or decide theirs is the only opinion that matters and that you’d better be ready to provide nine kinds of evidence based reports on your every opinion or preference... yeah, those guys offer no service here whatsoever IN MY OPINION and are often guilty of the same things they accuse others of. Many people here have already expressed how sick they are of being called out or challenged or shunned for any remark that doesn’t agree with a precious few other folks here. My question is, who are these people that think it’s ok to be so condescending or provoking or trolling in so many threads and ultimately wind up derailing any sort of civil or productive discussion? I don’t mean what is their name, I mean what are their credentials that put them head and shoulders above anyone else here and why do they think their opinions are supreme or even matter to anyone? What if I start assuming that those people are in charge of absolutely nothing in their own life except a keyboard? Running solely on Google fu to argue every point they can, oblivious to all their insults and in complete denial as to how they just stir the pot. The authority on zero but commanding respect where none is due. What if I’m absolutely correct in my assumptions and simply answer all queries about my opinions and preferences with, ‘just because’, ‘none of your bidness’ or ‘I don’t know you well enough for that’? I wonder if those offenders could respect something that simple.... I doubt it. And I don’t even need to know why.

    Seeing proof will never happen. Hell there is a well known local trainer who everybody loves that has a questionable background and pedigree but people throw money at him all the time, then come here and act like an expert because they took his class. Oh, and just because you took a class doesn’t make you an expert. Remember the people telling you how great you are doing is also getting paid by you. I doubt a trainer would get much repeat business if he told people they sucked and would be safer with a sling shot. I’ve been to training at work and witnessed people get their units taken until they get remedial training but I’ve yet to hear of anybody suggesting they sell their guns because they are unsafe.

    I don't look down on anybody trying to offer constructive criticism of anything I post, that's life. But I will offer my advice to all of folks out there that may have issues with your pistols, rifles, whatever; DO NOT BE AFRAID TO CALL THE MANUFACTURERS OF YOUR GUN. After all, they designed it and built it.

    And I will tell you why if your new here or don't remember. So one day, long ago, a member asked about whether or not it was okay to rack the first round in a pistol using the slide lock. I sat back and watched all these people offer all these opinions. So I thought to myself (as I often do), this is a waste of time. Why the hell isn't any body just asking the manufacturers? So, I did! I called 4 or 5 of the big guys, Glock, Sig, S&W, don't remember the others off the top of my head and guess what? Every single one of them gave me their company's "official stance" on that particular practice. Not their opinions! THEIR OFFICIAL STANCE!

    All the pages of unnecessary BS. Back and forth guru talking points and certainties as to why or why not and all I did was take 10 minutes of my day, look up their numbers on their websites, and called a real person that actually had the be-all, end-all answer.

    Well needless to say, that thread was DONE! You couldn't even hear crickets! :mamoru:

    It's on here somewhere, but I didn't bother to look for it because this search function is still worthless! ;) :p
     

    Emperor

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    I understand fully what you are saying about practicing how you carry. I do however have some questions about the technique you are practicing. At what range, and by range I mean distance are you running from said target? If it is not far enough to successfully execute a retreat without blind firing, wouldn't you have a better chance with superior marksmanship in a stand up battle? Wouldn't you be better off moving and shooting laterally, while maintaining some sort of proper shooting stance while seeking cover? I am nobody, but if you were far enough to turn and run, I'd argue you would probably be better off turning and running with focus on that rather than dividing your attention. While I could think of some scenario where the suppression fire would be warranted, as I have humorously explained in a previous post. It is not in any situation but a war zone.

    trying to run from a bear while shooting, or any wild animal for that matter, is trusting your life to luck. You'd have to be lucky to land a killing shot on a moving wild animal, while in motion running away blind firing. I guarantee you won't outrun them, so the best you can hope for is they give up, which is not likely once pursuit is on. Running from wild animals is not the best way to deter them from eating you.

    I think we've pretty much run that in the ground! But since you asked and it appears sincerely, I will offer up one more explanation.

    My initial response would be; perhaps, on some of your points. You do realize how fast you can get off 4 or 5 shots from a pistol, yes? In my drill, and when I solved the ammo issue, I got 5 shots off before I made 2 full steps. And hit the target with surprising accuracy after a few times. So it DOES work to make me better at it.

    You are correct that you could eventually make a stand after some distance, and maybe I would?!? Remember, "fluidity!"

    I disagree with you on the suppressive fire. Most and I do mean most if not all, petty scumbag criminals who would pull a gun on you would most likely fall in one of these following categories, any combination of them, or all of them: Can't shoot accurately, won't hold their ground (to keep a solid aim point), if being shot at, have crappy guns, are spineless and gutless in the face of resistance, are SIP when confronted back, and any other we can think of. My point; you throw bullets towards them, they are doing dances and falling all over themselves to get away or hide. Don't believe me? Go look at the hundreds of videos out there of thug gun battles. They actually look real tough right up until the other thug starts throwing back. Then they look completely silly.

    As for the bear, I kind of hope you are kidding about that. I entered that into the story to stop the nonsense about me giving a crap where my bullets are flying if I am fighting for my life.
     
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    Emperor

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    Shooting while getting off the X worked for the cowboys and Indians on horseback. I would think anyone who isn’t a tier one guru might find themselves hammering the trigger while retreating to cover or just trying to get away. Over the shoulder, under the leg, trying to bend bullets around corners. I guess until u r in it for real who knows. Fight for survival will cause many different options to come into play even if they aren’t *flat range approved*. Anyway thanks for the ammo info.

    Totally agree! Until you are in it, you have absolutely no way of knowing what you will do. That is another reason I would not discount somebody on here who was in any of the wars who were actually being shot at; or cops that were in gun battles. And most of them have said on here, they were scared when bullets were coming back at them! I don't blame them! I don't judge them either!
     

    Bangswitch

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    Looks like you guys had all the ingredients for a good old fashion poop productions without me.


    Someone mentioned limp wristing offending those who may be a little light in the loafers. I wonder how the ladies feel about the phrase "finger F###ing the trigger."




    This guy again...



    I've watched few of this dudes videos you have been linking in. He does a great job breaking stuff down barney style. I don't know his experience, but he seems to be legit. Also I noticed in this video he has good taste in bourbon.
     

    MOTOR51

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    I would even go as far to say some even practice CQB under water. That’s probably not offered at a local range. I do have a pool and marine cups in all my glocks. :eek3:

    Remember during Katrina there were sharks and gators swimming down bourbon


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    Emperor

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    I would even go as far to say some even practice CQB under water. That’s probably not offered at a local range. I do have a pool and marine cups in all my glocks. :eek3:

    Remember during Katrina there were sharks and gators swimming down bourbon


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    HaHa! I didn't know what CQB was at first. Looked it up on my owny!
     
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