Your budget AR is not "just as good"

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    DAVE_M

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    Yeah higher production lends itself to more failures but also more that pass. Oddly enough I’ve seen productivity studies over the years that show larger batches often lend themselves to less QC issues by volume than smaller batch production. You have to consider a similar concept to economies of scale in production QC.

    Typically larger batches require more mechanization. More mechanization lends itself to less human error. Less human error increases QC on most continents.

    Consider miller lite vs a micro brew. Taste preferences aside, compare the consistency of miller lite to your favorite micro brew. Each batch from the micro brew will have wider variations than miller lite because miller lite has the process mechanized and has extremely tight tolerances in every step along the way.

    It sounds good in theory, but assembly is not automated in even the most high volume shop.
     

    Bangswitch

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    It sounds good in theory, but assembly is not automated in even the most high volume shop.

    But I guarantee it’s mechanized and divided into an assembly line process. Assembly is just another string of processes. If you attached barrels to receivers all day long and I built start to finish guns, using the same quality parts, who is more likely to have better tolerances on the barrel nut? Keep in mind in the hypothetical I’m not assembling for personal use but as a function of production. Personal use often throws a wrench into these conversations because often we do things for ourselves at a rate of speed that could never be profitable.
     
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    RaleighReloader

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    I think there's a few things getting mixed up in this thread.

    One is the idea of "mixmaster" guns versus guns coming from a single manufacturer. The problem with the "mixmaster" is that most builders don't really know how the various parts are going to interact in the long run. Firing five test rounds isn't the same as firing fifty thousand test rounds to find out where the points of failure are. Big companies have the resources to do this. Of course, a "mixmaster" can be a fantastic gun ... but you won't really know that until it fails.

    There's also the question of support. I can call Smith & Wesson or Colt during standard business hours and get a team of people to help me work through a problem. If I'm a professional buyer, then I can contractually ensure that replacements parts will be available for a certain length of time. This rarely gets factored into the "how good is my gun?" question, but for those people that use firearms for their livelihood, it's a very real consideration.

    Lastly is resale. "Mixmaster" guns are rarely worth anything for the very reasons I stated above. Ditto for a heavily modified factory gun. Stock factory guns almost always do best at resale because they're known commodities; nobody has to worry about whether this part will be compatible with that part ...

    ... so, buy what makes you happy. I like running my guns stock; it forces me to focus on my shooting abilities, and it means I'll never have a problem selling a used gun that I choose to part with. YMMV.

    And on that topic ... I'm amused when I see heavily modified guns listed for sale at ridiculous prices. Do they ever sell? I doubt it. And here's the sad part ... if most of those sellers kept their guns in stock condition and invested in ammunition and training, they'd be a lot further ahead, both financially and in terms of their shooting ability.

    Mike
     

    bigtattoo79

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    There are people on this forum that will tell you brand X is just as good as brand Y, but will never explain why other than saying "well I have 100 flawless rounds through mine without an issue." Those people are clueless. Everyone harps on the AR being like building Lego blocks, but it's really far from it, especially if you tend to use cheap parts. Just because you hear that brand X has parts made by brand Y, does not mean those parts are the same. Often times they are worse, but occasionally they will be better. When they are better it's due to the company having those parts made to their specifications performing additional checks and tests on those parts to ensure they meet a set of standards. In a previous thread, I posted videos of DC Machine, where the majority of PSA parts are made. That company is pushing out 2000+ receivers a week, but only check a small percentage of those parts leaving the shop. This leaves a greater margin for errors. While you feel you're getting a deal, you won't know until you check it. Having the right tools to check these things is important.

    If you're serious about the AR platform, I suggest watching this video and reading through these links.



    https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/school-of-the-american-rifle-ar-builders-qa-part-1/

    https://www.instagram.com/schooloftheamericanrifle/?hl=en


    Awesome video! Thanks for posting.
     

    sportsbud

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    Um... How did the OP get banned on this one?
     

    CatCam

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    Probably some stupid BS. Sad that they ban members who actually contribute to firearm knowledge......
     

    sailem

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    I disagree, I've owned many different rifles, including a Styer Aug (trigger pack went bad). What's the difference if a 4150 CHF barrel is on a colt or a PSA? What's the difference of a milspec trigger is in an areo lower or a POF lower? Factory rifles hold no edge over home built ones OTHER than resell value. I get not everyone possesses the skill or know how to build thier own, so they have to go spend more on a good factory built one. I think this causes those people to lash out and argue their rifle is superior just because they spent more. Just my opinion. The key is to know what you're doing and how those parts are gonna react to each other in the long run. If you get that down iI think you can put together a better one for less money
     
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    jdindadell

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    Just to throw in a point I did not see yet...

    How would everyone feel if I purchased the exact same parts from daniel defense and assembled them myself?

    How would that compare to buying a complete daniel defense rifle?

    I have all of the tooling and skill needed to build an ar from individual parts.

    Conceptually this would save me the cost of whatever dd charge to put their parts together...?
     
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    Magdump

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    Just to throw in a point I did not see yet...

    How would everyone feel if I purchased the exact same parts from daniel defense and assembled them myself?

    How would that compare to buying a complete daniel defense rifle?

    I have all of the tooling and skill needed to build an ar from individual parts.

    Conceptually this would save me the cost of whatever dd charge to put their parts together...?
    I’m pretty sure if you bought the rifle in separate parts from DD it would cost you a lot more than one assembled. But if you took your time and assembled the rifle to spec, you’d have a DD rifle. And I’m sure we’d all feel happy for you. Would it potentially affect resale down the road? Most likely, unless the origin was not divulged. Would you have the same warranty available to you from DD on a rifle you assembled from their parts? I’m not certain, but I’m guessing no. Would you wind up with the same quality rifle? I don’t see why not. As mentioned earlier, the mechanized and people factors that come into play can make a difference. There may be little quirks to assembling DD parts that the techs there know very well but there’s no memo for the home builder regarding the process they’ve developed in-house and know to follow in assembly. Could that make a difference? Maybe. I’ve certainly developed a number of techniques and extra steps over the years that make a difference in my builds, even if just running in my detents so the safety and takedown pins don’t stick on the first range trip.
    Food for thought.
     

    DAVE_M

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    How would everyone feel if I purchased the exact same parts from daniel defense and assembled them myself?

    Indifferent. You can spend your money as you so chose.

    How would that compare to buying a complete daniel defense rifle?

    I have all of the tooling and skill needed to build an ar from individual parts.[/QUOTE]

    Assuming you have the proper tools and knowledge to properly assemble the rifle, there is a potential you can assemble the rifle beyond what Daniel Defense does in house. The major differences between assembling your rifle from a brand's parts and buying a complete rifle is that you do not have the warranty that most companies offer with their complete rifles. Granted, that does not speak on the quality of the assembly, but touches on the assurance that you don't get when you're cobbling parts together. If you are capable of assembling the rifle properly, then that warranty may not be needed. Of course, this is assuming the rifle is for someone other than LE/Mil that is not governed by an authority.

    Conceptually this would save me the cost of whatever dd charge to put their parts together...?

    Unfortunately, no. The tools required to build such things properly add to the overall cost. Without them, the rifle would be a mess.
     

    DAVE_M

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    A lot of people are getting off in the weeds about building versus buying, completely overlooking that there are hobby grade rifles that will see 200 rounds a year, quality rifles that see 1,000 rounds a week, and everything in between. Quality control is a necessary step in ensuring a quality product leaves the door. Some companies focus on that more than others. Since Daniel Defense was mentioned, I figured it would be best to show examples of rifles that use quality parts, but miss the mark when it comes to assembly.

    This is not the first example I've seen like this, but in this photo you see a poorly made stake on a castle nut that loosened. It's comical how many people claim it never happens, so they do not need to properly torque the castle nut or stake the end plate. It's a simple fix, but nothing that should be happening when you pay $1400+ for a rifle.

    49317962386_4b9c968b2c_z.jpg
     

    DAVE_M

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    If you do happen to build rifles, be sure to use quality parts from a trusted manufacturer. Aluminum gas blocks are not the best idea.

    49318311742_042f4fb77e_o_d.jpg
     

    DAVE_M

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    But I guarantee it’s mechanized and divided into an assembly line process. Assembly is just another string of processes. If you attached barrels to receivers all day long and I built start to finish guns, using the same quality parts, who is more likely to have better tolerances on the barrel nut? Keep in mind in the hypothetical I’m not assembling for personal use but as a function of production. Personal use often throws a wrench into these conversations because often we do things for ourselves at a rate of speed that could never be profitable.

    Most manufacturers assemble rifles at individual stations. There is no assembly line like you would find in a vehicle factory.

    Daniel Defense surprisingly has two stations. One for the upper and one for the lower.

     
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    Bangswitch

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    Most manufacturers assemble rifles at individual stations. There is no assembly line like you would find in a vehicle factory.

    Daniel Defense surprisingly has two stations. One for the upper and one for the lower.



    Well do you think the QC would improve if the castle nut was tighten and staked at one station and then continued moving while the person installing the castle but just kept installing castle nuts.

    Look best I can tell the time if takes me to assemble an AR it could never be profitable unless I assembled things in bits and pieces or charged 3 times what it would be worth.

    I liked this video it is neat to see how thing were done 50 years ago, but it seems we have advanced so many ways but not others.

     
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