Proposed BATFE Form 4473 Change.

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  • JBP55

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    Proposed ATF 4473 Change Includes Three Gender Choices


    On December 26, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives issued a 60-day notice seeking public comment on the new revision of the Form 4473 – Firearms Transaction Record (see the announcement in the Federal Register here). The action is required in accordance with the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995 (“PRA”). In essence, the PRA requires government agencies to seek approval every three years for continued use of forms utilized by government agencies and to seek public comment on the form or its new revision, if applicable.
    The ATF has changed the Form 4473 and as such, is seeking public comment on the new form.

    Changes to the Form 4473 include the following:
    In general, the Draft Form 4473 no longer has references to “See Instruction for…” to highlight on the Form that there is an instruction for the specific box.

    Section A is now the Section identifying the firearm (old Section C). It only contains information on the firearm and the firearm transaction, and does not include the “For Use By Licensee” box, nor the box into which FFLs enter their Name, Address, and FFL number.
    Additionally, where the old Form had 4 line items to enter firearms, the new Form only has 3. There has been a Firearms Transaction Record Continuation Sheet issued as well – which may be viewed here – where quantities of firearms in excess of 3 will be identified.

    Section B is now the Section in which the Transferee enters their personal information (i.e., formerly Section A).
    The “County” box has been revised to include “Parish/Borough”.
    The “Sex” box has been revised to include a third option of “Non-Binary”.
    The “UPIN” box has been revised to include “Appeals Management Database Identification (AMD ID)”.
    The Citizenship information (Country of Citizenship and US-issued alien or admission number) has been moved to precede the prohibitor questions.
    The question asking the Transferee whether they are under indictment or information in any court for a felony has been revised to include: “or are you a current member of the military who has been charged with violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice and whose charges have been referred to a General Court-Martial?”.
    The question asking the Transferee whether they have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence has been revised to include: “or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions?”.
    The prohibition questions regarding Citizenship (e.g., renounced US citizenship, illegal alien, etc.) have been moved away from the general Citizenship information, see above.
    The Transferee’s certification date has been split into three boxes for Month / Day / Year.

    Section C is now the Section wherein the Transferor records Transferee identification information and NICS / Background check information.

    The “Supplemental Government Issued Documentation” box has been revised to include a statement highlighting the space should also be completed if the photographic identification does not include their full legal name.
    A new box has been created in which the Transferor will record “Official Military Orders Establishing Permanent Change of Station (PCS); PCS Base/City and State; PCS Effective Date; PCS Order Number (if any)”.

    Section D is now the Section wherein the Transferee would sign to recertify that their answers are still true and correct when the transfer of the firearm(s) occur on a different day than the date on which they originally completed and signed the form.

    Section E is new, and is now the Section in which the FFL has the “For Use by Licensee” box, the Name/Address/FFL Number box, and the certification / signature.

    The box for “Transferor/Seller’s Title” has been removed.
     

    DAVE_M

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    80900680_10156821270625963_3081635568841392128_o.jpg
     

    Saintsfan6

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    Out of all the changes the BATFE should be focusing on. This is where they are focusing their attention, time and energy? Instead of worrying about hurting some trans gender persons feelings, how about we focus on getting our SECOND AMENDMENT BACK!?
     

    RaleighReloader

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    These changes make sense to me. I'm not sure that I'd call this the high priority work of government, but it makes sense that the form continues to evolve.

    It never made sense to me why the question about citizenship was so low on the form. Again, it doesn't really matter much to me ... but I don't think there's any grand conspiracy here. I think this is just the usual evolution that forms like this go through.

    Mike
     

    Bangswitch

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    And here I was worried they would make us assign a gender to the firearm being purchased. I’m not down with that. I want my guns to be able to explore their sexuality and decide for themselves what gender they want to be. Dodged a bullet there. Seriously, I just dodged a bullet apparently my hunting rifle is a little pissy I keep calling her a him... or was it him a her. Someone pull the emergency stop I got to get off this crazy train. :run:
     

    Bangswitch

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    These changes make sense to me. I'm not sure that I'd call this the high priority work of government, but it makes sense that the form continues to evolve.

    It never made sense to me why the question about citizenship was so low on the form. Again, it doesn't really matter much to me ... but I don't think there's any grand conspiracy here. I think this is just the usual evolution that forms like this go through.

    Mike

    It’s just a waste. But for the 0.2% (if I recall) a simple test will solve your confusion. Take your right hand tug at your wasteland. Then take your left (because we shake hands with our right) and reach into your pants. Then tell person to the left or right of you what you feel and chances are if they are 2yo or older they can tell what your sex is. Warning this could be misconstrued as something other than a gender inquisition so best to do it in a safe space.
     

    340six

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    And here I was worried they would make us assign a gender to the firearm being purchased. I’m not down with that. I want my guns to be able to explore their sexuality and decide for themselves what gender they want to be. Dodged a bullet there. Seriously, I just dodged a bullet apparently my hunting rifle is a little pissy I keep calling her a him... or was it him a her. Someone pull the emergency stop I got to get off this crazy train. :run:

    As it is they already have brought race into it. I own a Black Rifle. And have claimed it has assaulted someone with no proof. Where is the ACLU when I need them?
     

    Saintsfan6

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    These changes make sense to me. I'm not sure that I'd call this the high priority work of government, but it makes sense that the form continues to evolve.

    It never made sense to me why the question about citizenship was so low on the form. Again, it doesn't really matter much to me ... but I don't think there's any grand conspiracy here. I think this is just the usual evolution that forms like this go through.

    Mike

    I think *evolution* is the wrong word to use... and no, in my opinion (as I believe most American’s believe) there are only 2 sexes/genders. It’s a biological/anatomical/genetic designation, not how you *feel* at that particular moment.

    Let’s run through an example, one of these *non binary* types puts just that on the form but then during their next purchase they decide to ID themselves as a Male, but at their next purchase change their self ID to Female before changing back to non-binary for their next purchase. How in hell would that benefit our record keeping and screening and be a beneficial use of our tax payer dollars for the BATFE to figure out why this person’s form answers are changing? And let’s not pretend the *non binary* types don’t go through these *evolutions* or *transitions* as time progresses. Next thing you know we will have some that don’t ID as ANY of the three available options then we will have to add more. What follows then? A whole new page with a visual aid to help firearm purchasers figure out what gender they ID as with a list of 34 options where *more than one option is acceptable*?

    This literally does absolutely zero to enhance our system.
     

    EightySix

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    Now they have gone and offended the only 2 genders possible and made liars out of the 3rd choice.
     
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    RaleighReloader

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    And let’s not pretend the *non binary* types don’t go through these *evolutions* or *transitions* as time progresses.

    So what? My weight has changed over time, and the 4473 asks me for that. Does the fact that my weight changes mean that it's a stupid question to ask?

    It collects data about a person at a point in time. And the only people that seems to bother are the ones that don't like it when things change.

    By the way, the majority of Americans support stricter gun control. If we're going to go by simple pluralities, should we just cave and hand over everything that isn't a single shot muzzle loader?

    Mike
     

    Bangswitch

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    So what? My weight has changed over time, and the 4473 asks me for that. Does the fact that my weight changes mean that it's a stupid question to ask?

    It collects data about a person at a point in time. And the only people that seems to bother are the ones that don't like it when things change.

    By the way, the majority of Americans support stricter gun control. If we're going to go by simple pluralities, should we just cave and hand over everything that isn't a single shot muzzle loader?

    Mike
    I believe height and weight are required to match your DL. It’s less a concern of weight and more a concern or identity verification, and since some states are allowing the non binary gender fluid nonsense to appear on the license the 4473 is changing. What a stupid problem to have. It quite literally proves the level of entitled and privileged first world idiots we have become.

    I also don’t believe the majority of Americans want stricter gun control. I believe that’s what they report and the left wants you to believe but Virginia is a prime example only the wackos want more gun control.
     
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    RaleighReloader

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    I believe height and weight are required to match your DL. It’s less a concern of weight and more a concern or identity verification, and since some states are allowing the non binary gender fluid nonsense to appear on the license the 4473 is changing. What a stupid problem to have. It quite literally proves the level of entitled and privileged first world idiots we have become.

    I also don’t believe the majority of Americans want stricter gun control. I believe that’s what they report and the left wants you to believe but Virginia is a prime example only the wackos want more gun control.

    I love watching all of this squirming about gender. It confirms my beliefs that most people have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. Dunning-Kruger in full force.

    I'm just sad that these bigotries get yoked to conservatism, to which gun rights also gets yoked. I know more than a few people that live what you would call "alternative" lifestyles, that own guns and know how to use them. They're good people that just want to enjoy the freedoms of this country like everyone else.

    Mike
     

    Gator 45/70

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    I also don’t believe the majority of Americans want stricter gun control. I believe that’s what they report and the left wants you to believe but Virginia is a prime example only the wackos want more gun control.[/QUOTE]


    Right on man!
    If anyone believes the news or information from .Gov

    Always remember, You will never get the truth,You will never get all the information.
     

    Bangswitch

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    I love watching all of this squirming about gender. It confirms my beliefs that most people have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. Dunning-Kruger in full force.

    I'm just sad that these bigotries get yoked to conservatism, to which gun rights also gets yoked. I know more than a few people that live what you would call "alternative" lifestyles, that own guns and know how to use them. They're good people that just want to enjoy the freedoms of this country like everyone else.

    Mike

    Bull crap you and I have gone round and round about gender vs sex and your answer always is that I’m a bigot. That’s just not the case. I believe it’s a mental disorder and should be addressed correctly. You don’t give a meth-head meth. You don’t help people with eating disorders starve themselves, binge or purge, but for some reason you (among other mixed up souls) think helping a male mutilate himself is the answer to his identity issues. Its beyond moronic but I’m the bigot. Go figure.
     
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