CC in a business no fire arms allowed

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  • AustinBR

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    What is the law if a person is caught CCing in a business with no forearm signs posted? Is it illegal?

    Thank you, CH

    In Louisiana you could be hit with trespassing.

    Getting caught is tough if carrying in a good holster with proper attire.
     

    JBP55

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    Act innocent and most will ask you to leave and if you refuse you may be cited for Remaining After Being Forbidden.
     

    JBP55

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    Thank you James. Asking for a relative who had questions.

    Revised Statutes
    TITLE 14 — Criminal law
    RS 14:63.3 — Entry on or remaining in places or on land after being forbidden

    Universal Citation: LA Rev Stat § 14:63.3
    §63.3. Entry on or remaining in places or on land after being forbidden
    A. No person shall without authority go into or upon or remain in or upon or attempt to go into or upon or remain in or upon any structure, watercraft, or any other movable, or immovable property, which belongs to another, including public buildings and structures, ferries, and bridges, or any part, portion, or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, including by means of any sign hereinafter described, by any owner, lessee, or custodian of the property or by any other authorized person. For the purposes of this Section, the above mentioned sign means a sign or signs posted on or in the structure, watercraft, or any other movable, or immovable property, including public buildings and structures, ferries and bridges, or part, portion or area thereof, at a place or places where such sign or signs may be reasonably expected to be seen.
    B. Whoever violates the provisions of this Section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned in the parish jail for not more than six months, or both.
     

    Troedoff

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    Are we really going to have this debate again? Louisiana doesn't specify like many other places what type of signage is required. It does however give the business owner the right to forbid firearms on his or her property. If there is a visible sign, and you carry anyway, and are asked to leave you must leave. Better yet if they don't want you there, don't patronize their business. If you do not, then you will be criminally liable. At the end of the day it is a matter of intent, and to this point, that I am aware of, there is no case law to support one side or the other of the argument. You likely will not be charged with illegal carry, but if asked to leave, leave. If you do it in Texas where they do specify signage requirements, you an be charged with illegal carry as well. Best not to push the issue in LA, we don't need more Laws.
     

    AustinBR

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    Are we really going to have this debate again? Louisiana doesn't specify like many other places what type of signage is required. It does however give the business owner the right to forbid firearms on his or her property. If there is a visible sign, and you carry anyway, and are asked to leave you must leave. Better yet if they don't want you there, don't patronize their business. If you do not, then you will be criminally liable. At the end of the day it is a matter of intent, and to this point, that I am aware of, there is no case law to support one side or the other of the argument. You likely will not be charged with illegal carry, but if asked to leave, leave. If you do it in Texas where they do specify signage requirements, you an be charged with illegal carry as well. Best not to push the issue in LA, we don't need more Laws.

    This ^^

    I don't think there is much of a debate. If you are going to knowingly defy the business owner's ask/right to deny firearms in their business, it's on you.


    Good resource there.
     

    MOTOR51

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    Isn’t it interesting that people will violate someone’s right to refuse service and make rules in their business and on their property, because they feel it violates their rights


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    krotsman

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    I know someone will have the answer to this off the top of their head, but didn't all the major stores that banned guns last year, just ban open carry? If I remember correctly, seems like they didn't object to, or at least address, CC. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm too lazy to look it up).
     

    AustinBR

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    Isn’t it interesting that people will violate someone’s right to refuse service and make rules in their business and on their property, because they feel it violates their rights

    There are definitely different schools of thought when looking at it. I see it similar to a restaurant that has a clearly posted dress code and people ignoring it. The restaurant and its staff don't really care much about how people are dressed, they are simply trying to setup a structure for people to behave a certain way with the premise that better-dressed people will behave in the manner that they want.

    Ruth's Chris (Baton Rouge location) states a dress code of business casual on their website. By going there dressed in something other than business casual, sitting down, eating, and paying, are you violating their right to refuse service?
     

    Troedoff

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    There are definitely different schools of thought when looking at it. I see it similar to a restaurant that has a clearly posted dress code and people ignoring it. The restaurant and its staff don't really care much about how people are dressed, they are simply trying to setup a structure for people to behave a certain way with the premise that better-dressed people will behave in the manner that they want.

    Ruth's Chris (Baton Rouge location) states a dress code of business casual on their website. By going there dressed in something other than business casual, sitting down, eating, and paying, are you violating their right to refuse service?

    If they ask you to leave for violating their dress code, and you don't then yes. If they serve you then that is their prerogative, and in that case no.
     

    AustinBR

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    Are we really going to have this debate again? Louisiana doesn't specify like many other places what type of signage is required. It does however give the business owner the right to forbid firearms on his or her property. If there is a visible sign, and you carry anyway, and are asked to leave you must leave. Better yet if they don't want you there, don't patronize their business. If you do not, then you will be criminally liable. At the end of the day it is a matter of intent, and to this point, that I am aware of, there is no case law to support one side or the other of the argument. You likely will not be charged with illegal carry, but if asked to leave, leave. If you do it in Texas where they do specify signage requirements, you an be charged with illegal carry as well. Best not to push the issue in LA, we don't need more Laws.


    If they ask you to leave for violating their dress code, and you don't then yes. If they serve you then that is their prerogative, and in that case no.

    I agree. And going down the same train of thought:

    Lets say Ruth's Chris has a sign at the door that states "Business Casual Required, firearms and weapons prohibited" and you walk in wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and are concealing a firearm. If the hostess sits you and you eat $100 worth of pretty good food, pay, and leave, I argue that you didn't violate their right. You might not have complied with the request printed on their door, but I argue that (in Louisiana), the burden is on the business owner to enforce their rules. If you choose not to comply, they can ask you to leave and you have to leave, otherwise, you have broken the law.
     

    Troedoff

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    I know someone will have the answer to this off the top of their head, but didn't all the major stores that banned guns last year, just ban open carry? If I remember correctly, seems like they didn't object to, or at least address, CC. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm too lazy to look it up).

    It depends on how they convey their wishes. Whole Foods is pretty clear about their gun policy. Other places are not, Personally I carry wherever I go, and if I notice a sign, I find somewhere else to patronize for whatever goods I was looking to purchase there. Price is not my priority, principles are.
     

    Troedoff

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    I agree. And going down the same train of thought:

    Lets say Ruth's Chris has a sign at the door that states "Business Casual Required, firearms and weapons prohibited" and you walk in wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and are concealing a firearm. If the hostess sits you and you eat $100 worth of pretty good food, pay, and leave, I argue that you didn't violate their right. You might not have complied with the request printed on their door, but I argue that (in Louisiana), the burden is on the business owner to enforce their rules. If you choose not to comply, they can ask you to leave and you have to leave, otherwise, you have broken the law.

    Personally I would go to Outback or another restaurant, that didn't have a sign. I do think that it is on the restaurant owner to enforce that. I think you are looking at it in an over simplistic manner though. Suppose something happened at said restaurant, who had conveyed their wishes in signage at the door. Now you are in violation. Granted there is a fraction of as percent chance that will be the scenario, but plan for the worst, and hope for the best has always been my modus operandi.
     

    AustinBR

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    Personally I would go to Outback or another restaurant, that didn't have a sign. I do think that it is on the restaurant owner to enforce that. I think you are looking at it in an over simplistic manner though. Suppose something happened at said restaurant, who had conveyed their wishes in signage at the door. Now you are in violation. Granted there is a fraction of as percent chance that will be the scenario, but plan for the worst, and hope for the best has always been my modus operandi.

    I don't disagree. I do my best to avoid places like that.
     

    thperez1972

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    995a9a7a6d1f8462aab8955355990765.jpg
     

    MOTOR51

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    There are definitely different schools of thought when looking at it. I see it similar to a restaurant that has a clearly posted dress code and people ignoring it. The restaurant and its staff don't really care much about how people are dressed, they are simply trying to setup a structure for people to behave a certain way with the premise that better-dressed people will behave in the manner that they want.

    Ruth's Chris (Baton Rouge location) states a dress code of business casual on their website. By going there dressed in something other than business casual, sitting down, eating, and paying, are you violating their right to refuse service?

    You are knowingly going against the rules set for their business. I think a business should be no different than a residence.


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