Gator 45/70
Well-Known Member
A bit of food for thought http://www.skilledsurvival.com/survivalists-guide-hiding-guns/
List of gun owners in the US?
- Thread starter Magdump
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I was out in my Flex Seal Boat when............
I can think of at least five or six firearms I purchased through a FFL and I no longer own them.
I also have NFA items which are in fact registered with the feds, credentials that are registered with federal and local governments, a vehicle that is registered with the state, bank accounts, school records, medical records, and I am a citizen of the United States. Everything you do, you are on a list.
Liberals are people that have been programmed to think a certain way by our media. TV, Movies, schooling, their parents, etc. They have knee-jerk reactions and emotions based upon this programming, that are the basis for their arguments without thoughtful questioning of these positions or thinking them through to a logical conclusion. A better word to describe them might be 'sheep'.
They also have no real concept of reality. Say sh$t like, "that COP should have shot the armed suspect in the leg". They think that a gun makes a cocking noise everytime one picks it up like it does on TV and that supressors are only used for murders and make a "pffffft" sound. They also think that passing of laws written on paper by a few people in a fancy building will be adhered to and solve all problems.
The leftists, OTOH, are those that run our media, TV, Movies, etc are more insidious. They have slowly, incrementally been pushing their agenda for over a century in order to obtain more power and control. It is important to differentiate between the two and recognize who is who.
The 19 minute mark explains how information is stored. Unless you don’t believe in such things.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/DS7CN67XL1lb/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/DS7CN67XL1lb/
The 19 minute mark illustrates what has been said before, the more people who know about a secret, the less likely it is that it will stay secret.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/DS7CN67XL1lb/
https://www.bitchute.com/video/DS7CN67XL1lb/
Well there you go. You believe it's more probable than not that this super secret list exists. But you believe there's a possibility it doesn't exist at all. Is that accurate?[/QUOTE]
Not accurate. Just answering you in kind, so if you think it doesn’t make sense, well...
You just have a very skewed sense of reading comprehension, in that you only read and see what fits your narrative. I’m sure you find it entertaining to a point, like a sudoku puzzle or something, but you’ve really accomplished nothing. You haven’t discredited the article, you haven’t proven the government is not compiling a list of gun owners in the US and you haven’t even enticed me to attempt to straighten out the mess of misinterpretation you’ve created here. It’s not worth it at all. You do make it easy for me to walk away from a discussion though. Rewarding actually. To clarify, it’s nice not talking to you.
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You are correct. And you have not proven the government is compiling that list. You've shown it it possible with the current technology. But showing it can happen is not proof it is happening. So we're back where we've been, it's possible they are and it's possible they aren't.
No, we’re not, because there is no we. Feel free to carry on though. Don’t let me hold you up.
Hmmm...we can't have a "we're not" if there's no we.
Danny Abear
Well-Known Member
I would guess that info is stored in the same building that Snoden, described (Forgot what it was called) that stores records of ALL phone calls and text messages...
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Gator 45/70
Well-Known Member
Perhaps we should say ''Why wouldn't'' .Goober track firearms?
Fast and Furious was a test run and how did that work out?
I don’t know Perez. Pretty much every time you try the same old pointless jabs I just shrug my shoulders and shake my head and wonder about your motive. It doesn’t offer anything at all to the conversation. I’m sure it serves your purpose but only yours. You may enjoy the constant bickering over nothing but it serves no real purpose. You put fort a consistent effort to keep the empty arguments going though, so I gotta believe it’s important to you, but I don’t believe the vast majority of folks come here to get their debate on. You can include me in that bunch.
So, I hope that about clears it up for you. Go get that last word in. I promise I won’t reply.
Google UDC-NSA
I think a lot of people come here for the discussions. And this only became an argument because you cannot bring yourself to agree with me but you couldn't say I was wrong. If you can say you are 100% sure the government has that list, you must either have the proof or it must be your opinion. If you're 100% sure with no proof and you aren't willing to entertain the idea you're wrong, you're too closed minded to have a meaningful discussion because you will only reject anything that might go against your opinion. But if you're not 100% sure your position is correct, you must believe there's a chance the list doesn't exist.
I don't believe that secret list exists. I have no definitive proof that the list does not exist. But I believe there's enough information to suggest the secret list does not exist. Therefore, I am open to viewing any proof it does exist. Showing it can exist is not showing it does exist.
You've not provided any proof it does exist. So either you don't have any or you're hiding it. If you don't have any, then you simply believe it exists and are closed minded to the idea it might not or you're willing to accept the possibility it does not exist. If you're willing to believe there's a possibility it doesn't exist, then you and I have similar beliefs about there being a list and we only differ on any probability of the list existing or not existing.
And there you have it. That's pretty much my position. There could be a list or there might not be a list. We differ in that I believe it's more probable than not there isn't a list.
I hope that clears it up for you.
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I really can't believe this thread has come this far. I posted a paraphrased rendition of widely available information on how the ATF works to actually protect firearm owners information. At the end of this I will post a news article as well. While I don't usually like to cite news articles, I have been in the gun business now for 2 decades, and none of my interactions with the ATF, have led me to believe anything to the contrary to what the article says. Especially when it speaks to how the Tracing system works. Take my word for it or not, but this article is pretty accurate even though I don't agree with the ex ATF guy.
What I know for a fact is that the ATF does not recognize any digital A/D book, unless it is approved by them on an individual basis. They recognize no software company or have a blanket authorization for any A/D software. I keep mine in bound books still to this day. The records at the tracing center where all of this data is stored, is converted to micro film, not a digital database, and is not searchable. It works much like the old dewey decimal system in the libraries. When they have to find a gun, they start at the manufacturer, and follow the trail of crumbs. They have no way of looking up a name, they have to put names to a firearm.
Now this is not the case in States, and Cities where there are registries. So far we are not among them, and if you don't want to end up on another list, don't want to be. The ATF does not have a full record of who bought what, that data does not exist in one location in a complete list of any kind. Even 4473 information is decades old in most cases, or they do not have a complete record. Some is lost in fires, my business is still active, and contains over 50,000 records that I store not the ATF etc. At best their information is incomplete, and in most cases unreliable. Unless the background check system makes huge changes, which will have to go through the legal channels, it will stay this way. That's not to say that they can't find who owns a particular gun, but the trail often leads to a dead end.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...ent-gun-tracing-system-is-insane/65-547682302
As far as the super secret police are concerned, many of stores still use Bound Books, which is considered analog by today's standards. With the hundreds of thousands or millions of firearms sales each year among all the FFL's etc, it is plausible to believe there is enough computing power to compile, and store this data maybe. But with PCI compliance records, encryptions, and overall software security, it would have to be very high profile organizations, to gather said information. While it is possible, it is not likely, nor is it practical.
Magdump I agree it is possible, but Like Perez, given my experience in dealing with these people, it is not likely.
What I know for a fact is that the ATF does not recognize any digital A/D book, unless it is approved by them on an individual basis. They recognize no software company or have a blanket authorization for any A/D software. I keep mine in bound books still to this day. The records at the tracing center where all of this data is stored, is converted to micro film, not a digital database, and is not searchable. It works much like the old dewey decimal system in the libraries. When they have to find a gun, they start at the manufacturer, and follow the trail of crumbs. They have no way of looking up a name, they have to put names to a firearm.
Now this is not the case in States, and Cities where there are registries. So far we are not among them, and if you don't want to end up on another list, don't want to be. The ATF does not have a full record of who bought what, that data does not exist in one location in a complete list of any kind. Even 4473 information is decades old in most cases, or they do not have a complete record. Some is lost in fires, my business is still active, and contains over 50,000 records that I store not the ATF etc. At best their information is incomplete, and in most cases unreliable. Unless the background check system makes huge changes, which will have to go through the legal channels, it will stay this way. That's not to say that they can't find who owns a particular gun, but the trail often leads to a dead end.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/...ent-gun-tracing-system-is-insane/65-547682302
As far as the super secret police are concerned, many of stores still use Bound Books, which is considered analog by today's standards. With the hundreds of thousands or millions of firearms sales each year among all the FFL's etc, it is plausible to believe there is enough computing power to compile, and store this data maybe. But with PCI compliance records, encryptions, and overall software security, it would have to be very high profile organizations, to gather said information. While it is possible, it is not likely, nor is it practical.
Magdump I agree it is possible, but Like Perez, given my experience in dealing with these people, it is not likely.
https://youtu.be/uZvmftYHWKM
Jump to the 5:00 mark where he talks about the bill and NICS data. This is what they want. Trying to pass it into law. Sorry for folks who can deny something staring them in the face.
Jump to the 5:00 mark where he talks about the bill and NICS data. This is what they want. Trying to pass it into law. Sorry for folks who can deny something staring them in the face.
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I believe most people would agree there are those who would like to have a list of guns and gun owners. I am in that group. Where a lot of people differ is in the belief that list already exists. The desire and an attempt to create such a list does not mean that list already exists. It also doesn't mean the list does not exist.
And if you look at the title of this thread, there’s a question mark on the end of it that’s been there from day one.
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