List of gun owners in the US?

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    AustinBR

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    Can't say much about the government keeping lists but if they wanted to they'd have no problem doing so these days.

    Google has no issue giving up all of your data to law enforcement and government agencies. That's your search history, location data from your phone, anything you keep in Google Mail, Contacts, Calendars, etc. I'm pretty sure Facebook and all other social media apps do the same thing. Heck your cell phone company keeps logs of your location data as long as your phone has service. If they want to they can see how often you're at the gun shop or Academy and add you to whatever lists are out there. There's been a bunch of articles recently of people getting in trouble just b/c their phone said they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    20 years ago we IT folk used to laugh and say "Who would spend billions on storage to keep records of every person's activities" and now it's a reality. So unless you're completely off the grid (no wireless devices) and use VPN whenever you go online and pay for everything with cash, you can't hide. And yes, if you aren't paying cash for everything, your purchases are being tracked and that data is being sold. It's a scary time to be alive hoping you don't end up on someone's radar because if the Eye of Sauron points at you it's going to find out everything about you.

    The question is what will make them turn their attention on you? Will a post like this just exposing the possibility be enough? I'm sure you've seen this video of the police interrogation in China for making a comment in a group chat. Hopefully it will never get that bad in the US.

    Anyway, enough of the tin foil hat. As others have said, there's no reason to stress out about it, because there's really nothing we can do. It is an interesting topic to discuss though.

    It also really comes down to how each person wants to live their life. Everything has a pro and a con. I'd prefer that the government didn't have access to all of my data. But, I'm a big technology fan and really enjoy how technology can enhance many parts of life. I have location tracking turned on in things like Facebook, Google, Instagram, and etc. It's quite useful, though I knowingly accept that a plethora of businesses now have my information. Pro/con.

    Fun story...I stayed at the Four Seasons in Austin, TX a few weeks ago. I was on my phone and on Facebook and I started seeing ads for Bentley and Aston Martin. Now, a few weeks later, I see these ads across all of my devices, across different platforms, all the time.
     

    aboatguy

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    There are public companies that have search engines and proprietary algorithms that I am certain could pick out gun owners, marijuana smokers, triathletes etc without much effort. A quick example would be Giant Oak and their GOST search engine.

    I wish you gun owners all the best:D

    Mike
     

    mike84z28

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    If it is happening there is nothing you can do about it, after all they are the Govt. Wrap you head around that and make sure you have many second, third, forth or fifth hand purchased.
     

    Emperor

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    If it is happening there is nothing you can do about it, after all they are the Govt. Wrap you head around that and make sure you have many second, third, forth or fifth hand purchased.

    This is wrong! What you CAN do and should is immediately come to the defense of ANY gun owner(s) that is/are being legitimately harassed by any regulatory agency. Acting against law abiding gun owners could NEVER happen on a wide scale basis. If I had to guess what I think it would look like, I'd suspect that when tyranny is beginning to take form, you'll see individuals being harassed in small numbers. When that day comes, get off your asses and rally around the Constitution.

    If ATF shows up at a guys house to start taking his "legally" owned firearms, pack the streets! It will be numbers that matter, not individuals! At least, and unlike these pissants and ninnies protesting now, it will be a "just" cause!
     

    Horrible

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    This is wrong! What you CAN do and should is immediately come to the defense of ANY gun owner(s) that is/are being legitimately harassed by any regulatory agency. Acting against law abiding gun owners could NEVER happen on a wide scale basis. If I had to guess what I think it would look like, I'd suspect that when tyranny is beginning to take form, you'll see individuals being harassed in small numbers. When that day comes, get off your asses and rally around the Constitution.

    If ATF shows up at a guys house to start taking his "legally" owned firearms, pack the streets! It will be numbers that matter, not individuals! At least, and unlike these pissants and ninnies protesting now, it will be a "just" cause!

    This is happening and has been happening (gun owners being harassed by tyrants) mostly in less free states than this one. In many cases, there just aren't enough gun owners to outnumber the FSA army and self-loathing libs in these states.

    ATF hasn't shown up at law-abiding folks' doors, AFAIK, but I can tell you that PDs have and confiscated guns of gun owners that have done nothing wrong.

    As for the govt having a list of gun owners, one is not paying attention if they believe that there isn't a list. Doesn't matter what the law says or what the Constitution says.
     
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    thperez1972

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    As for the govt having a list of gun owners, one is not paying attention if they believe that there isn't a list. Doesn't matter what the law says or what the Constitution says.

    Do you have anything to back up your claim? If the govt has a list, who maintains it? How are they keeping knowledge of the existence of the list from getting out?
     

    ozarkpugs

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    They do have a list of concealed carry permit holders . The ATF and social security administration persuaded state police agencies to give them the information under the guise of safety / red flag . They supposedly were looking for people who had ccw permit and were drawing checks for mental health problems. Not sure why the ATF needed to know that . As far as I know Mo. Is the only state that took the concealed carry permit authority away from the state police and took steps to be sure the information is not shared with the state police or federal government .


    Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk
     

    Horrible

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    Do you have anything to back up your claim? If the govt has a list, who maintains it? How are they keeping knowledge of the existence of the list from getting out?

    a few years back, the govt exposused knowledge in the media after a mass shooting or some such incident where it became clear that they weren’t tossing the background check info as the law states they are supposed to. I apologize for my poor memory
     

    thperez1972

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    a few years back, the govt exposused knowledge in the media after a mass shooting or some such incident where it became clear that they weren’t tossing the background check info as the law states they are supposed to. I apologize for my poor memory

    Are you able to provide the year, where the shooting occurred, or what information made this clear? Who in the government maintains the list? How have they managed to keep it a secret?
     

    Horrible

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    Are you able to provide the year, where the shooting occurred, or what information made this clear? Who in the government maintains the list? How have they managed to keep it a secret?
    I don’t remember. Will research more when I have time. It is just my recollection and my feeling that the data is maintained.

    Don’t forget that when an FFL goes out of business all 4473s must be turned over to the BATFE. Makes you wonder what they do with that info?

    Also, there are states that have registration and/or de facto registration.

    On the flip side, can you point to evidence that ATF destroys ALL background check info within 24 hours as law requires?
     
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    thperez1972

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    I don’t remember. Will research more when I have time. It is just my recollection and my feeling that the data is maintained.

    Don’t forget that when an FFL goes out of business all 4473s must be turned over to the BATFE. Makes you wonder what they do with that info?

    No, it doesn't. The records go to a big warehouse.

    Also, there are states that have registration and/or de facto registration.

    On the flip side, can you point to evidence that ATF destroys ALL background check info within 24 hours as law requires?

    If it's never recorded, there's nothing to destroy. And you're attempting a logical fallacy called "shifting the burden of proof." Your claim has not been proven true if I do not disprove your claim. The burden of proof is on you to back up your claim. It's like if you claim that you have unicorns living in your butt and you told me to prove you wrong. In that instance, I can't. But that doesn't prove the unicorns in your butt are real.
     

    tallwalker

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    I think what he is recalling is when the paper in NY/Rochester published a map showing addresses of concealed permit holders in the state.

    https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html

    Here is another:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/newspaper-chain-plans-state-by-state-concealed-weapon-databases

    And... a state by state look at concealed carry lists. California is public info and a number of others states have footnotes that make them questionable as well.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Public_access_to_concealed_carry_lists

    As far as FFL lists are concerned it is anybody’s guess. If you don’t think there are some unelected zealots in various states that have the info you are likely pretty naive. Even if they were to be caught with it somehow it would be because of Trump and the Russians and escape charges anyway.


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    thperez1972

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    I think what he is recalling is when the paper in NY/Rochester published a map showing addresses of concealed permit holders in the state.

    So you think he's recalling the list of concealed permit holders and erroneously applying that memory to the ATF and Form 4473's?

    https://www.cnn.com/2012/12/25/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html

    Here is another:
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/newspaper-chain-plans-state-by-state-concealed-weapon-databases

    And... a state by state look at concealed carry lists. California is public info and a number of others states have footnotes that make them questionable as well.
    https://ballotpedia.org/Public_access_to_concealed_carry_lists

    As far as FFL lists are concerned it is anybody’s guess. If you don’t think there are some unelected zealots in various states that have the info you are likely pretty naive. Even if they were to be caught with it somehow it would be because of Trump and the Russians and escape charges anyway.

    So you disagree with Horrible and believe some lists are maintained at the state level? In states with a mandatory registration, a list of registered guns must be maintained. This holds true on the federal level for NFA items. I know some states perform the background check at the state level. If those states, if they are performed like the federal background check, the only possible list would be a list of people who requested a background check. A check does not equal a gun purchase. And a background check does not equal A gun purchase. If you buy two guns on one approval and the government does record there was an approval, they know only that there's a good chance you bought a gun. If they confiscate guns based on the list, they won't know how many guns to confiscate. I guess they might if they were to break into every gun shop to copy their records since the guns bought are recorded only on the form after the approval and stay with the business for up to 20 years as long as the store is in business. That's a lot of work that must be done to compile all the information needed for the super secret lists. And with all the manpower needed to accomplish this never ending mission, it's somewhat surprising that every single person tasked with assisting has been someone who is unwilling to spill the beans.
     
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    Horrible

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    No, it doesn't. The records go to a big warehouse.



    If it's never recorded, there's nothing to destroy. And you're attempting a logical fallacy called "shifting the burden of proof." Your claim has not been proven true if I do not disprove your claim. The burden of proof is on you to back up your claim. It's like if you claim that you have unicorns living in your butt and you told me to prove you wrong. In that instance, I can't. But that doesn't prove the unicorns in your butt are real.
    I obviously can’t prove that a list exists if that is what you inferring. No argument there. Unicorns on my butt? Not sure anyone would want me to try to prove that one out!
     
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