Everything Corona! Latest News, Insights, Theories, Prognostications! Armegeddon?

Emperor · Apr 9, 2020

dwr461 said:
The virus is very very small. The N95 doesn’t filter 0.3 micrometers. However the virus when coughed or sneezed out of an infected host is suspended in water droplets that are much larger than 0.3 micrometers. The N95 is very nearly 100% effective at catching those droplets. The outside of the mask is now contaminated and must be discarded safely. For the vast majority of people who were infected with N95 mask usage were contaminated while removing the mask. You must not touch the outside of the front of the mask while it is removed. There is specialized training in the proper donning and doffing procedure for PPE.

I don't dispute any of that. However, it is being mentioned, and bantered about, that merely breathing is possibly spreading this. Hell, Dr. Birx herself alluded to that possibility in one of Corona Task Force pressers.

And so I say again, when are the medical community going to get on the same page with all this?

Also, since some of you guys are in the medical field, let me put this out there for consideration. If everything you smell with your olfactory receptors is molecular, then those odorants, like a virus are extremely small. Can you smell certain things while wearing an n95 mask? Of course you can. The stronger the odorant, the proportionate the size of the molecule, or abundance thereof.

Now I don't know how small the molecules of certain deodorizers or disinfectants are, but I know you can smell them through an n95 mask at times. Would you conclude that if you can smell these molecules, that you are also breathing them into your nasal passages and thus associated mucus membranes?

dwr461 · Apr 9, 2020

The virus is suspended in droplets.

You can smell certain molecules. Unless they were suspended in droplets. Then they wouldn’t get through.

Dave

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Emperor · Apr 9, 2020

Cheesy Lasagna said:
Basic surgical masks were designed more to prevent the wearer from transmitting a disease to the patient versus protecting the wearer from getting a disease.
That said, it’s better than nothing.

I believe that the average person is far more likely to touch a contaminated surface and contract in that manner.
Proper hand washing is a must but so is awareness of what potential contaminated surfaces are being touched or newly introduced into your environment.

An example from my personal life.
My neighbor is working a lot lately (respiratory therapist) so I mowed his lawn for him.
To show his appreciation, he had his son bring over a takeout pizza to me.
He was wearing a mask but no gloves.
I was wearing both.
I thanked him, brought it inside, opened the box and removed the pizza.
Threw away the box and went from there.
A pizza box is a normal part of life.
People will bring that home and forget all about the newly introduced biohazard...

I am on board with this too!

I suppose that my premise about the n95 masks should be considered more from the casual wearers viewpoint as he/she wanders the Corona wasteland to get groceries and other essentials. Look, I am going to wear a homemade mask when I go to the store too, but I, like you; am far more concerned with the inanimate objects I will come in contact with, than the person that is coming down the same aisle as me from another direction.

Truth be told, I hold my breath when I pass someone already anyway! :mamoru:

Call me crazy?

Emperor · Apr 9, 2020

dwr461 said:
The virus is suspended in droplets.

Where have you heard this definitively argued and documented as consensus medical/epidemiological gospel as it pertains specifically to CoVID-19?

I have searched and found nothing?!?

shrxfn · Apr 9, 2020

Emp droplets are how everything is spread. When you cough or sneeze fluids from your body fly out and land everywhere or hang in the air for a little bit depending on the size/weight of the droplets of fluid. I don't think it would be physically possible to spread just a virus molecule.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

Emperor · Apr 9, 2020

shrxfn said:
Emp droplets are how everything is spread. When you cough or sneeze fluids from your body fly out and land everywhere or hang in the air for a little bit depending on the size/weight of the droplets of fluid. I don't think it would be physically possible to spread just a virus molecule.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

I'm not a conspiracy nut, but this is not a time to cite anything from the WHO. Besides, I am watching and listening to the daily Corona Task Force pressers and listening to "our" own experts. This crisis and this virus affects me more as an American here in my own country, than whatever the WHO believes and does. They gave out false information and pushed Chinese propaganda at the onset. I don't know about you, but I will trust members on BS before I trust that bunch!

As I stated before, there is talk this virus is spreading from breathing alone. Now, I don't know if this is true; but there are so many unanswered questions surrounding this virus that the plausibility exists.

Just here in the US, we are a full month in (but over 5 months from when this began), and each day both Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx state we are "learning" more about this virus everyday. My contention? What the hell is taking so long to learn "everything" about this?

Read this disclaimer on the link you cited: This Q&A will be updated as more is known about COVID-19, how it spreads and how it is affecting people worldwide

Just saying?!?

dwr461 · Apr 9, 2020

Emperor said:
Where have you heard this definitively argued and documented as consensus medical/epidemiological gospel as it pertains specifically to CoVID-19?

I have searched and found nothing?!?

CDC has great data. I use the portion for healthcare professionals and emergency medical services. It is a basic precept in medicine that aerosolized infectious materials that coughed or sneezed are suspended in droplets. But in this specific case at is pertains to Covid 19 it was at a CDC class held by the US Army at Our Lady of the Lake.

Dave

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shrxfn · Apr 9, 2020

Scientists are always learning when they stop learning that is when bad stuff happens.

When you breathe you are expelling droplets and if the virus can transmit via droplets then it stands to reason it can be transmitted that way. think about people who spray when they say it is the same thing.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html#Transmission

Cheesy Lasagna · Apr 9, 2020

shrxfn said:
Scientists are always learning when they stop learning that is when bad stuff happens.

When you breathe you are expelling droplets and if the virus can transmit via droplets then it stands to reason it can be transmitted that way. think about people who spray when they say it is the same thing.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html#Transmission

Correct.

Emperor · Apr 9, 2020

dwr461 said:
CDC has great data. I use the portion for healthcare professionals and emergency medical services. It is a basic precept in medicine that aerosolized infectious materials that coughed or sneezed are suspended in droplets. But in this specific case at is pertains to Covid 19 it was at a CDC class held by the US Army at Our Lady of the Lake.

Not discounting what you say, but did read this on the site you cited;

A novel coronavirus is a new coronavirus that has not been previously identified. The virus causing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is not the same as the coronaviruses that commonly circulate among humans and cause mild illness, like the common cold.

A diagnosis with coronavirus 229E, NL63, OC43, or HKU1 is not the same as a COVID-19 diagnosis. Patients with COVID-19 will be evaluated and cared for differently than patients with common coronavirus diagnosis.

This seems to re-inforce my assertion of the unknown?!?

Also this:

Mode of transmission: Early reports suggest person-to-person transmission most commonly happens during close exposure to a person infected with COVID-19, primarily via respiratory droplets produced when the infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks. Droplets can land in the mouths, noses, or eyes of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs of those within close proximity. Recent studies indicate that people who are infected but do not have symptoms likely also play a role in the spread of COVID-19. The contribution of small respirable particles, sometimes called aerosols or droplet nuclei, to close proximity transmission is currently uncertain. However, airborne transmission from person-to-person over long distances is unlikely.

Like I said, the "plausibility" exists! All one needs is plausibility and no "definitive" scientific proof to the contrary to raise the concern level. Both of those parameters have been met!

Bangswitch · Apr 9, 2020

One thing I think that is throwing me off a little is I’ve heard repeatedly (don’t ask me to cite I don’t remember) ‘it can stay in the air for up go 3 hours’ but usually when you release something aerosolized it floats downward and lands on something. Honestly how long could one anticipate these aerosolized droplets to remain suspended? The way you guys explain it make me believe the people reporting 3 hours are fear mongering.

Cheesy Lasagna · Apr 9, 2020

Bangswitch said:
One thing I think that is throwing me off a little is I’ve heard repeatedly (don’t ask me to cite I don’t remember) ‘it can stay in the air for up go 3 hours’ but usually when you release something aerosolized it floats downward and lands on something. Honestly how long could one anticipate these aerosolized droplets to remain suspended? The way you guys explain it make me believe the people reporting 3 hours are fear mongering.

Depends on airflow conditons.
Recirculating air keeps aerosols aloft.
The virus is viable for a certain time period so you cannot rule out recirculation.
Think about that cruise ship filled with infected folks.
This is why negative ventilation in hospital wards is important.

Basically, if we all lived outdoors it wouldn’t be as important.
But we mostly live indoors in enclosed spaces using air conditioning (circulation of given air.)

shrxfn · Apr 9, 2020

I think that could be a maximum based on ideal conditions where there are external forces that can keep the droplets airborne like AC or air currents. I do think that seems like a long time but fluid dynamics is not my specialty.

I read somewhere that an MIT researcher is saying they can also travel up to 27ft but I haven't read the paper on that and think that may be a clickbait title to get views and don't say that is under ideal conditions.

Bangswitch · Apr 9, 2020

Cheesy Lasagna said:
Depends on airflow conditons.
Recirculating air keeps aerosols aloft.
The virus is viable for a certain time period so you cannot rule out recirculation.
Think about that cruise ship filled with infected folks.
This is why negative ventilation in hospital wards is important.

Basically, if we all lived outdoors it wouldn’t be as important.
But we mostly live indoors in enclosed spaces using air conditioning (circulation of given air.)

So spend as much time outdoors as possible?

Can you right me a doctors note?

MOTOR51 · Apr 9, 2020

Cheesy Lasagna said:
Basic surgical masks were designed more to prevent the wearer from transmitting a disease to the patient versus protecting the wearer from getting a disease.
That said, it’s better than nothing.

I believe that the average person is far more likely to touch a contaminated surface and contract in that manner.
Proper hand washing is a must but so is awareness of what potential contaminated surfaces are being touched or newly introduced into your environment.

An example from my personal life.
My neighbor is working a lot lately (respiratory therapist) so I mowed his lawn for him.
To show his appreciation, he had his son bring over a takeout pizza to me.
He was wearing a mask but no gloves.
I was wearing both.
I thanked him, brought it inside, opened the box and removed the pizza.
Threw away the box and went from there.
A pizza box is a normal part of life.
People will bring that home and forget all about the newly introduced biohazard...

I was stuck at work and little ceasers was the only thing I could grab. I needed to keep the box because I was eating in my unit so I wiped it with so many alcohol wipes the color came off. I figured it should have helped some LOL

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Cheesy Lasagna · Apr 9, 2020

MOTOR51 said:
I was stuck at work and little ceasers was the only thing I could grab. I needed to keep the box because I was eating in my unit so I wiped it with so many alcohol wipes the color came off. I figured it should have helped some LOL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It definitely helped.
But you see what I mean?
We’re so used to a certain way of doing things.
It’s quite hard to adapt initially.

Cheesy Lasagna · Apr 9, 2020

Bangswitch said:
So spend as much time outdoors as possible?

Can you right me a doctors note?

Depends on what outdoors is to you.
If it’s saturated with others then no.
If you’re fishing remotely, yes.

And no, I won’t write a note for you.
If I did then I’d have to do it for everyone.

Magdump · Apr 9, 2020

MOTOR51 said:
I was stuck at work and little ceasers was the only thing I could grab. I needed to keep the box because I was eating in my unit so I wiped it with so many alcohol wipes the color came off. I figured it should have helped some LOL

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Awesome

DAVE_M · Apr 9, 2020

Sitting in the car in a parking lot. Two women walk out wearing masks. One on her face, the other on her head, because she lit up her cigarette the moment she broke the plane of the doorway. Seems logical.

Bangswitch · Apr 9, 2020

Cheesy Lasagna said:
Depends on what outdoors is to you.
If it’s saturated with others then no.
If you’re fishing remotely, yes.

And no, I won’t write a note for you.
If I did then I’d have to do it for everyone.

Oh I’m definitely all about seclusion.

If you just said I need at least 5 days a week outdoors until this is all over I could get paid to try and salvage turkey season and rip a few lips too.

:dogkeke:

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