Question about the marketplace

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  • Cheesy Lasagna

    Sooooo Cheesy!
    Staff member
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    54   0   0
    Aug 20, 2011
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    Kennah!
    What happens if someone PM’s the seller and makes a deal before anybody else answers on the thread?

    To me there is no *dibbs* on items being sold.
    The seller has the right to sell to the first or the last person who wanted the item.
    I will sell to someone I know who responded later than others because I know them.

    Squabbling over this is quite puerile.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    What happens if someone PM’s the seller and makes a deal before anybody else answers on the thread?

    It's up to the seller to determine who he should sell to. The order of posts in the thread may or may not correspond to the order of people who have contacted the seller through PM/text/phone call/etc. And the order of those may not determine who the item is sold to. It would be unreasonable to suggest a seller shouldn't sell an item to someone in the same city because he was the second person when the first person lives 4 hours away.
     

    hoopstar789

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    Had a member on here who i made a deal with and set a date, then before that date he found out it was worth more money then what we agreed on so he backed out and asked if I wanted it for significantly more money. And according to the admins you're not violating any rules so with that logic I guess you can just pick and choose whoever you want to sell to even after agreeing with another member.
     

    Cheesy Lasagna

    Sooooo Cheesy!
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    54   0   0
    Aug 20, 2011
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    Kennah!
    Had a member on here who i made a deal with and set a date, then before that date he found out it was worth more money then what we agreed on so he backed out and asked if I wanted it for significantly more money. And according to the admins you're not violating any rules so with that logic I guess you can just pick and choose whoever you want to sell to even after agreeing with another member.

    Probably so but in my world an agreement is your word.
    Breaking your word is an entirely different world than order of interest.

    Personally, I’d keep my word and take the loss.
     

    hoopstar789

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    Probably so but in my world an agreement is your word.
    Breaking your word is an entirely different world than order of interest.

    Personally, I’d keep my word and take the loss.

    Couldn't agree with you more, I suspect the reason why the admins looked the other way because the other member is a site sponsor, however if it was the other way around im sure I would have a negative feedback and most likely banned. But guess to show its who you know and how much money you "donate"
     

    MALIBU12

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    Yet another reason I no longer deal here . Even some of the sponsors get their own special rules after agreeing to a deal . A man's word No longer mean **** around here .

    Before the new clan took over this site was great .
     
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    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    Had a member on here who i made a deal with and set a date, then before that date he found out it was worth more money then what we agreed on so he backed out and asked if I wanted it for significantly more money. And according to the admins you're not violating any rules so with that logic I guess you can just pick and choose whoever you want to sell to even after agreeing with another member.

    Yet another reason I no longer deal here . Even some of the sponsors get their own special rules after agreeing to a deal . A man's word No longer mean **** around here .

    The mods do not, and should not, punish people for exercising poor customer service. In order to do that, all transactions would need to be conducted through the site so all aspects of the transaction was known. This would put a huge burden on the site and the mods. It would be an unnecessary burden as the site has a built in way for someone to express their displeasure regarding what they feel is poor customer service. Every user has a feedback score. It's there so you can get an idea what type of person you may be doing business with. The site simply facilitates the meeting of potential sellers with potential sellers and only steps in in extreme cases such as sellers who misrepresent what they are selling.

    It's the same logic as a farmer's market in the town square. If you make a deal with a merchant and he then sells the item while you are going to the ATM to get money, it would be unreasonable to suggest the police to step in to intervene in a civil dispute. The appropriate action would be to leave feedback to warn others of the bad business practices.
     

    hoopstar789

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    The mods do not, and should not, punish people for exercising poor customer service. In order to do that, all transactions would need to be conducted through the site so all aspects of the transaction was known. This would put a huge burden on the site and the mods. It would be an unnecessary burden as the site has a built in way for someone to express their displeasure regarding what they feel is poor customer service. Every user has a feedback score. It's there so you can get an idea what type of person you may be doing business with. The site simply facilitates the meeting of potential sellers with potential sellers and only steps in in extreme cases such as sellers who misrepresent what they are selling.

    It's the same logic as a farmer's market in the town square. If you make a deal with a merchant and he then sells the item while you are going to the ATM to get money, it would be unreasonable to suggest the police to step in to intervene in a civil dispute. The appropriate action would be to leave feedback to warn others of the bad business practices.

    Ok so how come when I left a negative feedback on said user for poor customer service it was removed by I'm assuming a mod?
     

    MALIBU12

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    Ok so how come when I left a negative feedback on said user for poor customer service it was removed by I'm assuming a mod?
    Because he is a sponsor and rules don't apply. So the feedback point in moot.

    Like I said ..... down hill.
     
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    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    I moved what I felt were the relevant posts to a new thread so it would not be assumed a mod shut down the conversation.

    Had a member on here who i made a deal with and set a date, then before that date he found out it was worth more money then what we agreed on so he backed out and asked if I wanted it for significantly more money. And according to the admins you're not violating any rules so with that logic I guess you can just pick and choose whoever you want to sell to even after agreeing with another member.

    Ok so how come when I left a negative feedback on said user for poor customer service it was removed by I'm assuming a mod?

    I cannot speak on such a general question regarding an issue I know nothing about. I do not know the specifics of the dispute. I do not know what feedback was left. I don't know whose account the feedback was left on. I cannot give you an answer to your question. I will say that mods cannot delete feedback. That's above their level.

    I will say that, based on the info you provided, I can't say you have a legitimate gripe. Again, I do not know the specifics but I will try to create a scenario that matches the pattern I believe you set. You put a gun up for sale in the marketplace and I respond to it. We set up a deal. After we set up the deal and before the exchange is done, you learn the gun is rare and worth a lot more than you had listed it for. Based on the new information, you would be right to adjust the price accordingly. Because we had set up a deal, you should offer me the first chance to buy it based on the new information.

    Let's say that between the time you made the deal and the time the exchange was made, you found out the user had listed the gun for twice the fair market value. Would you still pay twice what you could have because you gave him your word? I believe most people here, if they are being honest with themselves, would understand if you backed out of the deal. And in that case, it would, in my opinion, be unreasonable for the seller to leave negative feedback for you.

    Based on the information you provided, he didn't "pick and choose" who he wanted to sell to. He learned the value of the item, adjusted the price accordingly, and allowed you the first opportunity to buy it at the new price. If someone made a deal with you then sold it to someone who offered more than you, that would be picking and choosing who they want to sell to.
     

    hoopstar789

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    21   0   0
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    I moved what I felt were the relevant posts to a new thread so it would not be assumed a mod shut down the conversation.





    I cannot speak on such a general question regarding an issue I know nothing about. I do not know the specifics of the dispute. I do not know what feedback was left. I don't know whose account the feedback was left on. I cannot give you an answer to your question. I will say that mods cannot delete feedback. That's above their level.

    I will say that, based on the info you provided, I can't say you have a legitimate gripe. Again, I do not know the specifics but I will try to create a scenario that matches the pattern I believe you set. You put a gun up for sale in the marketplace and I respond to it. We set up a deal. After we set up the deal and before the exchange is done, you learn the gun is rare and worth a lot more than you had listed it for. Based on the new information, you would be right to adjust the price accordingly. Because we had set up a deal, you should offer me the first chance to buy it based on the new information.

    Let's say that between the time you made the deal and the time the exchange was made, you found out the user had listed the gun for twice the fair market value. Would you still pay twice what you could have because you gave him your word? I believe most people here, if they are being honest with themselves, would understand if you backed out of the deal. And in that case, it would, in my opinion, be unreasonable for the seller to leave negative feedback for you.

    Based on the information you provided, he didn't "pick and choose" who he wanted to sell to. He learned the value of the item, adjusted the price accordingly, and allowed you the first opportunity to buy it at the new price. If someone made a deal with you then sold it to someone who offered more than you, that would be picking and choosing who they want to sell to.

    Cool, so what youre saying is I can go back and leave negative feedback on that user account and it shouldn't get removed (which it did) and two anybody, and I mean ANYBODY on this site can basically just alter a deal whenever they feel like. I really hope somebody pulls something like that on one of the admins on here because hey like you said. It isn't a "legitimate gripe."
     

    MALIBU12

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    71   0   2
    Sep 16, 2008
    2,102
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    slidell
    Do me a favor and delete my account . I don't want to be part of this shitshow an longer . To many other sites that have better standards to be associated with this mess .
     

    340six

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    Cool, so what youre saying is I can go back and leave negative feedback on that user account and it shouldn't get removed (which it did) and two anybody, and I mean ANYBODY on this site can basically just alter a deal whenever they feel like. I really hope somebody pulls something like that on one of the admins on here because hey like you said. It isn't a "legitimate gripe."

    The deal is between the seller and buyer. Not the seller the Site and the buyer who sell to or don't is up to them.
    An FFL also has this same right.
    We as mods have stepped in after a sale when rules here have been broken.
    If a seller sold an item and misrepresented it.
    I and others have banned the said member to protect others in the future.
    As well as we do need that kind here.
    The buyer is still on his or her own at that point.
    If it was not legal up to the buyer to contact the law. Or if misrepresented the buyer needs to file a civil case.

    If a seller or buyer cheats someone that is grounds for a Prema Ban.
    That's all we can do.
     
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    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    Cool, so what youre saying is I can go back and leave negative feedback on that user account and it shouldn't get removed (which it did)

    No, that's not what was said because I don't know the specifics other than the generic information you provided.

    and two anybody, and I mean ANYBODY on this site can basically just alter a deal whenever they feel like.

    Generally speaking, yes, they can. It's a free market. And by ANYONE, I mean the seller and the buyer. You are free to decide to not buy an item after saying that you would.

    I really hope somebody pulls something like that on one of the admins on here because hey like you said. It isn't a "legitimate gripe."

    There's a difference between what you described, someone changing the price based on new information not known at the time of the deal, and someone changing the price just because or selling to someone else who offered more. In your case, you said he had a legitimate reason to change the price. He learned information that showed the item was worth a bit more. And I noticed you didn't answer my question. Would you go through with a deal if you learned after making that deal that you were paying twice what the gun was worth?
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    Do me a favor and delete my account . I don't want to be part of this shitshow an longer . To many other sites that have better standards to be associated with this mess .

    Perhaps you can fill me in on any details of the issue not yet presented. I'm basing my replies on the limited information being provided. I do not know what item was being sold. I do not know what the initial asking price was. I do not know what the price was changed to. All I know is one party elected to not continue with the deal because they learned the initial price of the item did not represent a fair market value. Is that not a legitimate reason to cancel the deal? Would you still buy an item you agreed to buy if you learned you were paying twice the fair market value for that item?
     

    hoopstar789

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    Also and to answer you're question. If I agree to someone a price and a date I stick with it, it's my job to research what I'm selling and after agreeing it should be final. If I lose money because I was dumb enough to just agree to a sale without researching the market value then i just take a loss. maybe I'm just a man of morals. Anyway like I said delete this account and continue to appease the site sponsors.
     
    Last edited:

    jdindadell

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    Had a member on here who i made a deal with and set a date, then before that date he found out it was worth more money then what we agreed on so he backed out and asked if I wanted it for significantly more money. And according to the admins you're not violating any rules so with that logic I guess you can just pick and choose whoever you want to sell to even after agreeing with another member.

    I have a feeling this falls under "possession" as a concept.

    Until an item is paid for and changes hands, the item is still the property of the current owner, no matter what else...

    How would you feel if the seller had decided to keep the item, after you had made the "deal" and set the meet date? The seller just changed his mind and decided to keep it... Would you still feel "slighted" in some way?

    Or, you made the "deal" and set the date to meet, met up, and decided for yourself that the item was not worth what you had agreed to pay for it? Then you offer less than the previously agreed amount. Would the seller have a right to feel "slighted"...? In this situation the buyer is trying to adjust the "deal" price. That is usually a no go, but can be applicable in some situations.

    I have had sellers drop out at the last minute, usually because someone else made them a better deal. While I may be bummed that I did not "score a deal", it is what it is. Luckily I have never been stood up after driving to a meet location. I could have left that seller negative feedback, but I was really only out of the time it had took me to send a few private messages or texts.

    I have also had one instance of a seller bringing me a gun that had a factory defect. I declined to buy it after inspecting it. I have no idea if the seller knew about the defect, as the gun was un-fired. So that guy drove to me, and did not make the sale. Should he have felt slighted" by my actions? Should I have bought the gun, cause I made a "deal" with him? Of course not, that is why the deal is not done till both parties are satisfied.

    I look at it this way, until the item changes hands, and the money is paid the "deal" is not done. All kinds of things happen, and I have had to end deals for various reasons, including inability to schedule a meet, strange buyer/sellers, incorrectly described items, etc.

    Not everything works out as planned.

    I would be interested to see why your negative feedback was removed. Not that I think he deserved a neg feedback....

    And leaving the guy negative feedback over this may have been a bit extreme. I cannot remember if this site has neutral feedback, but I think that would have been a bit more appropriate. Or contact a mod and see if they can mediate the issue between you and the other party...

    Or start a thread and see how that goes. Might not be the best advice...
     

    AustinBR

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    I'll jump in and try to clarify things. Whenever anyone leaves negative feedback on anyone, an email is automatically sent to the two site admins (the site owner, and myself). As a quick preface, I don't get paid a dime or get any perks for helping run the site. I do it in order to help better the Louisiana/Southern shooting community, at large. I also realize that I can't please everyone and sometimes I have to make decisions that will ultimately upset some.

    Whenever I get an email related to negative feedback on iTrader, I reach out to the party whom negative feedback was left on and give them a chance to defend themselves. If they can't adequately defend why they got negative feedback, I usually ban them, permanently, as we don't need jerks on the forum.

    Whenever someone needs to be banned, a paper trail is created by issuing a ban directly from the PM, so that the ban and associated PMs/details are viewable by all site staff.

    A lot of times, negative feedback is left in error and I either delete it so it can be re-done, or modify it for the two parties.

    In this case, the seller, who coincidentally is a site sponsor, was selling an item that he was misinformed of the value of. He posted the item for sale at an absolute steal of a price (due to him not correctly valuing the item). He did not intend to sell it at a massive loss that isn't fairly priced.

    Hoopstar789 (buyer) made an offer for the item, which the seller initially accepted.

    Before the money or the item was exchanged, the seller realized that he very mistaken and what he was selling was not what he thought it originally was. He made this known and gave the buyer the option to buy the item at a more fair price that more accurately represented the item being sold. This is not a violation of the site rules and isn't a scenario where iTrader feedback of a 'bad deal' needed to be left.

    Good deals can certainly be had on the site, but tarnishing someone's feedback record over an honest mistake isn't appropriate. Whenever I see items priced very far under market value, I often PM the member and ask what's going on. 95% of the time, these large price discrepancies are scammers trying to steal money from members. The other 5% of the time, it's the member who thought they were selling an apple, but didn't realize that they actually had an orange.

    If I see someone selling a Scar 16 for $300 dollars, I'm certainly going to make them an offer...and then I'm going to ask why they are selling it so low, before I meet with them. If they then realize that royally messed up in their research when trying to sell it, I'm going to feel good that I didn't take advantage of someone who truly didn't know what they were selling. I'd rather take the high road and help them than get a steal of a deal because they were misinformed. Now, if this same scenario popped up where the guy says something like, "I know what it's worth, but I have to move to Canada tomorrow and I need it gone before I go," then I would hand them $300 and wish them luck.

    We don't treat anyone specially. Site sponsors have been banned and had their money refunded at least three times since I have been an admin. No one is exempt from the rules.
     
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