9x19 for deer?

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  • troy_mclure

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    an older guy i work with was talking about his marlin camp 9 deer rifle. said he has been taking deer with it since the mid 90s.
    i didnt ask alot of questions as i dont like the guy.

    after a(tiny) bit of research it looks like a 124gr is running about 1k fps and 325ftlb at 50yds.

    thats plenty to open hollowpoints, and flatten soft points.

    would you use a 9mm carbine to take deer? why or why not?

    too little velocity? too little energy? other reasons?
     

    Gator 45/70

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    Me personally no Thanks
    A lot of people use the 55 grain projectiles in a 223and do a good job of shooting.

    Others I've seen using 30.06 and 7mm mag only to gut shoot or blow a leg off of the poor deer..

    That 9mm is up there with a 38 but short of a 357
    I would pass on a 9mm in the woods, Might be okay for a sidearm but that's it for me.
     

    Fugum

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    The 9mm doesn't have enough energy for a safe humane kill and I'd be surprised if it's even legal to hunt deer with the caliber.
     

    Tboy

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    I would but only in a last resort situation. Way too man better choices.

    I have killed one with a 9mm but it was after tracking it wounded from an earlier bad shot with a rifle.
     
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    Big H

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    I have killed several deer over the years with my Camp 9---that's thick woods close shots---I
    use my Marlin 30/30 now as it has a scope---they are usually +or- 50-60 yard shots---other
    open type shooting it's my sporterized O3A3 30.06---"Old Timer".
     

    mxracer72

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    Would you trust a 357mag at reasonable distances?

    If so, look up the equivalent velocity numbers of 9mm from a 16" barrel versus a 357 3" or 4".

    I'm definitely not making the case for hunting with 9, but I'm also not discrediting the old guys story.
     

    Magdump

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    Would you trust a 357mag at reasonable distances?

    If so, look up the equivalent velocity numbers of 9mm from a 16" barrel versus a 357 3" or 4".

    I'm definitely not making the case for hunting with 9, but I'm also not discrediting the old guys story.
    Good points all, and you can’t discredit his story. I’ve shot several different 9mm loads through the chronograph from a 16 inch barrel and a few definitely have enough energy to inflict a kill. I dare say a clean kill DEPENDING on shot placement and another something that seems to escape hunters sometimes. Size of the animal.
    If it’s a doe day and you decide to take that yearling standing 50-100 feet from you and you realize that she’s only about 10 inches thick (or less) side to side then you’ll understand that you can indeed drop that animal with a well placed shot. So, I’m not gonna even entertain the thought of shooting a 200+ pound rutted up white tail buck with a 9mm carbine, but carrying a 9mm carbine in the woods and making an opportunistic harvest of a young and tender thinner skinned 60-80 pound white tail rabbit is definitely possible.
    Add to that a wildcard, 100gr +P+ conical soft tip moving in excess of 1500 fps and get back to me.
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    38dd064ac04de4c795401776d9d0972e.jpg
     
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    Beau Etienne

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    Only if that was my only choice.
    I know a guy that has taken several deer with a semi-auto 22. He used a scope and pulled the trigger as fast as he could.
    I consider that inhumane. Not exactly the same thing using a 9mm, but there are more humane and final choices.
     
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    Trailboss

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    Can it be done, yes. Unless you can choose your shots and consistently make 1-shot kill head shots, it may be irresponsible and show lack of respect for the game and sport.

    I've killed captive deer (not in LA) and domestic hogs at short range (<20 ft) with one shot from a .22LR pistol, but I wouldn't consider hunting with it unless survival situation and that's all I had.
     

    buckedup

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    ive recently learned that you can hunt with anything larger than .22" in Louisiana. which includes .22 mag(.224) and .22lr(.223).

    Must be a 22 centerfire to be legal. 22 mag is a rim fire and not legal for deer yet I have harvested several pigs some over 200 pounds with my cz 22 mag semi auto and even a 17 hmr so no doubt that it can be done
     

    Bangswitch

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    Last year my wife shot her first buck we called him to 10 yards he was calm she was calm when I processed him, his top two ventricles were missing thanks fo the 6.5mm creedmore. Even with a near perfect shot and half his heart turned to Jello at point blank range, he mustered up enough flight response to zig and zag 25-30 yards into the thicket. My dad who made 60 this year had never had one bang flop until fall of 2018, and he has hunted since before doe days existed.

    On the other hand a young guy who works for me ear-hole 3 buck with a 17.

    I have great respect for these critters sometimes you do everything right and it stil doesn’t work out. No need to complicate things using handgun ammunition.
     

    troy_mclure

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    Must be a 22 centerfire to be legal. 22 mag is a rim fire and not legal for deer yet I have harvested several pigs some over 200 pounds with my cz 22 mag semi auto and even a 17 hmr so no doubt that it can be done

    Correct. I misread the law. Corrected my post thank you.
     

    troy_mclure

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    Last year my wife shot her first buck we called him to 10 yards he was calm she was calm when I processed him, his top two ventricles were missing thanks fo the 6.5mm creedmore. Even with a near perfect shot and half his heart turned to Jello at point blank range, he mustered up enough flight response to zig and zag 25-30 yards into the thicket. My dad who made 60 this year had never had one bang flop until fall of 2018, and he has hunted since before doe days existed.

    On the other hand a young guy who works for me ear-hole 3 buck with a 17.

    I have great respect for these critters sometimes you do everything right and it stil doesn’t work out. No need to complicate things using handgun ammunition.

    I've hunted deer with .357 mag .44 mag, and 10mm for years. Are these not sufficient to take deer?

    I grew up in southern Ohio. Deer season was shotgun(slug only) and muzzleloader. I've tracked deer that had the heart almost completely removed by a 1oz soft lead slug.
    There is no such thing as a guaranteed clean kill.
     

    Magdump

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    I've hunted deer with .357 mag .44 mag, and 10mm for years. Are these not sufficient to take deer?

    I grew up in southern Ohio. Deer season was shotgun(slug only) and muzzleloader. I've tracked deer that had the heart almost completely removed by a 1oz soft lead slug.
    There is no such thing as a guaranteed clean kill.
    Agreed. Anyone not willing to or expecting to track an animal to the place it dies should prolly rethink hunting. Before guns came along it was bow and spear and whatever else. Wounds were inflicted and the chase was on. I think it’s good practice to teach a young hunter correct shot placement and patience enough to wait for that opportunity. Hit your mark with a sufficient load and the animal is going to go down in short order. Seconds to minutes generally as a deer going into survival mode means go go go, run it out until you can’t, which all hastens death. It’s also good to teach simple tracking of a wounded animal at any opportunity, regardless of who makes the kill and whether the location is already known or not.
    I’ve killed several deer with a bow and only had a small handful drop where I could see them and most of those only because I was so close when releasing the arrow that they were still within eye and earshot when they fell.
    A lethal hit might not kill an animal for several minutes but I don’t consider it to be inhumane. Just a call for a follow up shot.
     

    dwr461

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    I've hunted deer with .357 mag .44 mag, and 10mm for years. Are these not sufficient to take deer?

    I grew up in southern Ohio. Deer season was shotgun(slug only) and muzzleloader. I've tracked deer that had the heart almost completely removed by a 1oz soft lead slug.
    There is no such thing as a guaranteed clean kill.

    I agree that the pistol calibers you named are sufficient for deer. But they are all rounds that are capable of moving heavier bullets at faster velocities than any 9mm Parabellum load. This is particularly true when fired from a rifle where the longer dwell time will increase pressures and burn powders more completely than 9mm causing a velocity increases when compared to the same load in a handgun.

    I’m don’t know this for sure but I suspect that velocity increases from a longer barrel are proportionally less for 9mm than for the above rounds due to there being less powder to burn.

    Of these are just my opinions not fact so that them or leave them just as you will.

    Take care,

    Dave


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