Ahmaud Arbery....Cue the Riots????

MOTOR51 said:

What was the rush to capture vs follow and give the info to responding officers? The situations you used as examples are very far from this situation. I’ll give you a quick example of how things can get crazy even for an off duty police officer. I know of an officer who was driving down I-12 and thought he observed a crime being committed because it was illegal in his jurisdiction. After he held the person at gunpoint and the local officers arrived he was informed that there was no law against what the guy was doing in this jurisdiction. The officer was very fortunate the victim did not want to press charges. It’s best if it’s not life or death to let the local
Authorities take care of it. It’s real easy to get something wrong and end up in a trick bag. Just remember, the original crime they were pursuing him for was not actually a crime. This will all play into a federal civil rights trial.


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Bangswitch said:

A private citizen saw a need and stepped up to the plate to help prevent a crime. She wasn’t a cop and had no obligation to step into the fray, but she did and may have saved one or both of those guys lives.

It sounds like that’s what Mutt and Jeff set out to do, but chose to use deadly force when the suspect attacked them.

Now following and confronting a suspect with a shotgun in hand is not be ideal. I’m certain you know it’s not a tactic I would choose for myself in most every scenario, but nosey neighbors save lives and property all the time. Bystanders who decide they can’t just be a bystander and let bad things happen save lives and property.

Had this guy been a good ole CCer and stopped the suspect politely and the suspect complied and waited for the police to show up it would have been a win for the good guys.

Weak and possibly incendiary tactics from Mutt and Jeff, combined with the fake jogger/real criminal choosing to assault Mutt turned this into a bad day for all. It’s hard to win a fist fight with two hand holding a shotgun.

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krotsman said:

I thought the 1st shot came when they were in front of the truck, out of view of the camera. How do you know he attacked first? The weapon may have been discharged before the runner "attacked" him.

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Bangswitch said:

Tresspassing and b&e are crimes and had you witnessed it in your jurisdiction I’m sure you would have responded, particularly if you knew it was the same person from days earlier. The difference is it’s your job.

But keep in mind in Georgia apparently private citizens are allowed to detain someone committing a crime.

The crime existed in the moment. The property was posted and he entered it without permission. Just because the property owner doesn’t want to press charges on a dead guy doesn’t mean it wasn’t a crime. And you would have been well within your rights to detain him and sort out the details had it happen on your shift. Right?

If you had caught the guy and he resisted but the property owner didn’t want to charge him, you could have still charged him for resisting correct? If he attacked you and got himself shot, or just took a good beating and arrested, you souldn’t be charged with a crime.

I can’t imagine what might be a crime worth holding someone at gun point in one area and legal in another area all in Louisiana. Is this a case of overreactions gone near horribly wrong? Or what? Juicy details please.

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MOTOR51 said:

That was protecting life, still not the same as a construction site.


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thperez1972 said:

She did not initiate the contact with the suspect. She did not make the decision to detain/take the suspect into custody. When she arrived, someone with the proper training had made that decision already. Conversely, he did make contact with the subject. He made the decision to detain/take the subject into custody. He made that decision before someone with the proper training had arrived. When she stepped in, the suspect was in the act of committing a crime. When he stepped in, the suspect was jogging. Other than her and he being civilians, those situations are nowhere close to the same. It's a bad comparison. No amount of pounding will put that square peg in the round hole.

You are equating jogging with aggravated battery so your judgement would reasonably called into question. Therefore I have no idea what tactics you would choose in what scenarios.

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thperez1972 said:

But he was jogging at that moment. Unless jogging is illegal, he was not being detained while committing a crime.

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Bangswitch said:

IDK maybe I got my details wrong I it looked like he charged the guy with the gun, a struggle took place and the he stumbled into frame and fell. Maybe this is why I’m disagreeing with guys I’m usually in agreement with.

Its worth mentioning I watched the video sound off.

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Bangswitch said:

You mean Fleeing the scene?

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Bangswitch said:

Maybe I’m short on the facts did Mutt or Jeff not witness this guy entering or leaving posted property? If Mutt and/or Jeff hollered at the fake jogger while he was exiting the posted property and he began to jog, Thats not jogging thats fleeing.

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krotsman said:

Yep, sound on is key for this one. I just went back and watched it again, the first discharge came in front of the truck, out of view. It appears that jogger was coming around and charging the armed man, but does that justify the use of deadly force, especially if he was unarmed?

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thperez1972 said:

So Georgia allows for citizens to detain people for trespassing? Is that what you're going with?

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thperez1972 said:

So Georgia allows for citizens to detain people for trespassing? Is that what you're going with?

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Bangswitch said:

Here is Georgia’s apparent citizens arrest law. B&E is key, unless basic trespassing is a felony in GA.

O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

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thperez1972 said:

I've read it already. All I can say is good luck to them.

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MOTOR51 said:

Apparently he was never a LEO. More facts come out every day


Former cop accused in Ahmaud Arbery killing stripped of arrest powers
https://mol.im/a/8320861


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Magdump said:

Lol, I can imagine they’re sitting there pondering their SNAFU and realizing how things ain’t quite going as planned. I think maybe there’s a lesson to be learned here, if there’s anyone who hasn’t already figured it out. If you’re gonna take the law into your own hands and run the risk of having to spend your life savings defending yourself so you aren’t put away for life and maybe still have to do time....prolly take a second to figure out if catching someone who might be found guilty of nothing is worth it.
Personally, unless the guy had just killed, viciously attacked or kidnapped someone and a human life was hanging in the balance, I don’t see any reason to pursue and detain him with guns drawn. I’m pretty sure anyone here could make that decision in less time than it took to read this post.

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