Ahmaud Arbery....Cue the Riots????

AustinBR · May 13, 2020

Markmmg said:
If some fat redneck comes after me with a shotgun because I am jogging through his neighborhood, I would fight back too? Who said he would have lived if he did NOT fightback? Wouldn't you fight back if someone came after you with a shotgun for no apparent reason?

If two armed guys are coming at me and I am unarmed, no I probably wouldn't try to fight. With the guy in the truck having a pistol pointed at him, fighting the guy on the street is not smart. There is no way to ninja it and win that fight. It would have been better to comply and use verbal judo to come out alive.

Fighting one guy up close who is armed is one thing. Fighting an armed guy with his armed buddy >10 ft away is a losing battle if the guy is an even moderately decent shot.

There is clearly more to the story on both sides and it's likely that both parties are in the wrong.

Emperor · May 13, 2020

Has everyone already forgotten how many times an incident, (just) like this, was overinflated, over-hyped, over-reported, over-sensitized, over-outraged, over-analyzed, injected with BS, sprinkled with half-truths, dusted with hatred, had conclusions drawn, had "case closed" rhetoric fanned, and on, and on; etc., etc., etc? The discussions are so predictable, it's nauseating! You literally could go through the filings of many of the criminal courts around the country and find these types of crimes without even really looking.

Usually, and in the end; very seldom is it anywhere near what it was made to be in the onset. One thing is for sure, more hate and animosity is guaranteed for all!

Gator 45/70 · May 13, 2020

MOTOR51 said:
Father and son 'had earlier confrontation with Ahmaud Arbery'
https://mol.im/a/8315531

So maybe there is more to the story. Seems like if there is no police report from the first time they confronted him then maybe they were playing police on their street. They should have called the first time and when they saw him again the police wold have already known who he was. If the actual owners of the property, the only ones that could actually pursue charges didn’t care then it’s not looking good for the pair. I read earlier in an article that when interviewed, the property owner said he never made a police report in regards to that property. Doesn’t look good for the duo and probably one of the reasons they were arrested. If there was no crime then they couldn’t be making a citizens arrest.

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I believe it's a class1 felony to enter a dwelling in GA.
He was photographed at least 5 other times before this incident inside the home.1 he has a hammer in hand.

MOTOR51 · May 13, 2020

AustinBR said:
If two armed guys are coming at me and I am unarmed, no I probably wouldn't try to fight. With the guy in the truck having a pistol pointed at him, fighting the guy on the street is not smart. There is no way to ninja it and win that fight. It would have been better to comply and use verbal judo to come out alive.

Fighting one guy up close who is armed is one thing. Fighting an armed guy with his armed buddy >10 ft away is a losing battle if the guy is an even moderately decent shot.

There is clearly more to the story on both sides and it's likely that both parties are in the wrong.

I would love to hear what the demeanor was and what was said leading up to the fight. Did they start out with “hey sir we are with the neighborhood watch and saw u coming out of that building. The police are on the way so we would like for u to stay right here until they arrive”. Or was it more like “hey mfer, we saw ur ass coming out of that vacant building stealing stuff so you need to stop running away”.

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MOTOR51 · May 13, 2020

Gator 45/70 said:
I believe it's a class1 felony to enter a dwelling in GA.
He was photographed at least 5 other times before this incident inside the home.1 he has a hammer in hand.

That’s awesome. And it is a crime if there is a victim. The duo can’t be a victim for the other persons property and he apparently never filed a report and still hasn’t pursued charges. That’s why it’s best to leave enforcing the laws to people who do it for a living. If there is no victim then there can’t be a crime.

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BlazinTheAmazin · May 13, 2020

FACTS:

There is ZERO video evidence of Arbery jogging anywhere in the neighborhood (with all the Ring/surveillance cameras these days that's highly improbable).

There is video evidence of Arbery entering this home numerous times prior so his "curiosity" over a home under construction should have already been satisfied.

As soon as he sees the neighbor yell at him while on the phone he takes off at a SPRINT, not "jogging".

Arbery had both a juvenile as well as an adult criminal record including a weapons charge.

Said weapons charge at the high school game involved Arbery running and trying to ditch the gun (not the actions of a legal CC'er who may be carrying in the wrong place).

His probation violation in 2018 was for theft (so we know he likes to steal things).

McMichaels was involved with Arbery's earlier theft case and knew his criminal history (meaning he knew he could be armed too).

Under Georgia law the house under construction is still considered a dwelling and entering a dwelling with the intention to commit theft is a FELONY (so there is REASONABLE suspicion by the neighbors a felony was taking place).

Under Georgia law citizens are allowed to make citizen's arrests (as well as the McMichaels having just as much right to be on a public road as anyone).

The McMichaels asked Arbery to stop and wait for the police to arrive (obviously not a crime)

If Arbery was "being chased by armed white supremacists" why continue running towards the truck? He could have cut left or right through the trees and houses to seek cover and is much more logical.

No shots were fired until Arbery ATTACKED McMichaels. McMichaels has a right to defend himself.

The wounds in the autopsy results are consistent with shots fired during a struggle (e.g. through the hand and another at an upward angle from inside of a foot).

If there is more evidence then let it come out in court but based upon the totality of the circumstances it is pretty obvious to see why the McMichaels were not arrested at the time. Much like how George Zimmerman wasn't arrested at the time and only after the blacks started to complain does the political machine start to turn and then an arrest is made. So in summation: don't attack people with shotguns and your body is less likely to assume a room temperature.

sarky · May 13, 2020

First the two murderers, over stepped their bounds, then they lied, the fact that one was a former cop throws a lot of shade on the cops he served with. Then there is the dumbassed DA who simply took their word and aided and abetted a crime after the fact. Plus the video. No, these two murderers, deserve to rot in jail as the play toy of a real hard criminal!

MOTOR51 · May 13, 2020

BlazinTheAmazin said:
FACTS:

There is ZERO video evidence of Arbery jogging anywhere in the neighborhood (with all the Ring/surveillance cameras these days that's highly improbable).

There is video evidence of Arbery entering this home numerous times prior so his "curiosity" over a home under construction should have already been satisfied.

As soon as he sees the neighbor yell at him while on the phone he takes off at a SPRINT, not "jogging".

Arbery had both a juvenile as well as an adult criminal record including a weapons charge.

Said weapons charge at the high school game involved Arbery running and trying to ditch the gun (not the actions of a legal CC'er who may be carrying in the wrong place).

His probation violation in 2018 was for theft (so we know he likes to steal things).

McMichaels was involved with Arbery's earlier theft case and knew his criminal history (meaning he knew he could be armed too).

Under Georgia law the house under construction is still considered a dwelling and entering a dwelling with the intention to commit theft is a FELONY (so there is REASONABLE suspicion by the neighbors a felony was taking place).

Under Georgia law citizens are allowed to make citizen's arrests (as well as the McMichaels having just as much right to be on a public road as anyone).

The McMichaels asked Arbery to stop and wait for the police to arrive (obviously not a crime)

If Arbery was "being chased by armed white supremacists" why continue running towards the truck? He could have cut left or right through the trees and houses to seek cover and is much more logical.

No shots were fired until Arbery ATTACKED McMichaels. McMichaels has a right to defend himself.

The wounds in the autopsy results are consistent with shots fired during a struggle (e.g. through the hand and another at an upward angle from inside of a foot).

If there is more evidence then let it come out in court but based upon the totality of the circumstances it is pretty obvious to see why the McMichaels were not arrested at the time. Much like how George Zimmerman wasn't arrested at the time and only after the blacks started to complain does the political machine start to turn and then an arrest is made. So in summation: don't attack people with shotguns and your body is less likely to assume a room temperature.

Last thing I’m going to say on this because it’s redundant. There is no evidence he stole anything from within the construction site. It was daytime and you could easily see if he was packing things away. The site owners never called the police when he was caught the first time, so apparently they didn’t want to go to court for the trial, this is usually the case. It would be a totally different scenario
If the home next door is occupied and you see someone climbing out of their window, in the middle of the night with a tv and jewelry ,armed
With a gun. The duo here is in a bind. There is going to be no victim of a burglary therefore I’m not sure how the law will cover them. The dead guy could easily be seen to have thought he had no other choice but to fight after he has already tried running away from them. It could be spun a thousand different ways and not many look good for the duo. If it’s not a life or death situation then the best bet is to be a great witness for when the police show up and not take action on your own.

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Bangswitch · May 13, 2020

thperez1972 said:
I can agree with you. But the arrested duo weren't defending anything. They were on the offensive.

True but apparently according to GA law they had the right to detain someone committing a crime. It appears they were attempting to detain, when the suspect attempted to fight them off. Again I really don’t want to delve of into, legal, moral, or smart. But if the law allowed for this behavior then they were within their rights and by doing so sent a message to other would be criminals to consider their occupation elsewhere.

BlazinTheAmazin · May 13, 2020

@MOTOR51 I'll assume you are a property owner. Are you okay with unknown strangers entering your dwelling as long as they don't take anything??

Also, (and this part is just conjecture but certainly possible) I wouldn't put it past the home owner to claim nothing was stolen even if it was in order to avoid mobs of angry blacks "demonstrating" outside of his home. I certainly wouldn't want roving gangs of Trayvons and Michael Browns hanging around my property.

Bangswitch · May 13, 2020

AustinBR said:
I also somewhat agree with you. My difference is that I have absolutely no desire to confront anyone unless I absolutely need to. I certainly am not going to drive around, follow them, and then get out of a truck to confront someone. It's a lose-lose situation.

Oh I agree confronting a burglar isn’t on my list of fun or interesting things to do, but there are circumstances in which I may feel the need to confront or possibly even pursue a subject, but not to murder him/her. Don’t get me wrong either there are things that could be done that would have me considering murder. If you can’t admit that you’re not being honest

BlueShamu · May 13, 2020

Has anybody been able to find the Public Release Incident Reports for these “linked incidents?”

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Jadams74 · May 13, 2020

I see both parties sharing some blame in this

thperez1972 said:
Sorry...that case popped into my head when i read your post. Yes, it's not advisable to grab a shotgun. I only saw a quick clip of the video and only saw it once. From what I understand, grabbing the shotgun may have been Ahmaud Arbery's best option.

#1) I wouldn't have gone after the guy armed because nobody's life was in immediate danger, I would have called the police and let them handle it. There's plenty of video evidence from the house under construction that he was up to no good and at the very least trespassing.
#2) If I were "just jogging" and unarmed in a neighborhood 10 miles from my home and saw 2 armed men blocking the way, I would have gone the other way or tried to go around. I definitely wouldn't have rushed the guy holding a shotgun and tried to take it away from him, especially if he had an armed friend with him.

Even if I were armed, and I usually am, I would have tried to carefully retreat given the chance before getting into a gun fight with 2 armed men, but that's just me.

MOTOR51 · May 13, 2020

BlazinTheAmazin said:
@MOTOR51 I'll assume you are a property owner. Are you okay with unknown strangers entering your dwelling as long as they don't take anything??

Also, (and this part is just conjecture but certainly possible) I wouldn't put it past the home owner to claim nothing was stolen even if it was in order to avoid mobs of angry blacks "demonstrating" outside of his home. I certainly wouldn't want roving gangs of Trayvons and Michael Browns hanging around my property.

You assume correctly. I am not ok with it and would have called and had a report done the FIRST time he was seen on the property. I also would not want someone chasing the trespasser down and someone getting killed over it. I have had people looking in vehicles on my property and they ran when I turned on the lights. I called the police and made a report. I didn’t chase them down the road with a shotgun because I didn’t want to have to deal with the outcome When it went bad over property.

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EightySix · May 13, 2020

BlazinTheAmazin said:
FACTS:

There is ZERO video evidence of Arbery jogging anywhere in the neighborhood (with all the Ring/surveillance cameras these days that's highly improbable).

There is video evidence of Arbery entering this home numerous times prior so his "curiosity" over a home under construction should have already been satisfied.

As soon as he sees the neighbor yell at him while on the phone he takes off at a SPRINT, not "jogging".

Arbery had both a juvenile as well as an adult criminal record including a weapons charge.

Said weapons charge at the high school game involved Arbery running and trying to ditch the gun (not the actions of a legal CC'er who may be carrying in the wrong place).

His probation violation in 2018 was for theft (so we know he likes to steal things).

McMichaels was involved with Arbery's earlier theft case and knew his criminal history (meaning he knew he could be armed too).

Under Georgia law the house under construction is still considered a dwelling and entering a dwelling with the intention to commit theft is a FELONY (so there is REASONABLE suspicion by the neighbors a felony was taking place).

Under Georgia law citizens are allowed to make citizen's arrests (as well as the McMichaels having just as much right to be on a public road as anyone).

The McMichaels asked Arbery to stop and wait for the police to arrive (obviously not a crime)

If Arbery was "being chased by armed white supremacists" why continue running towards the truck? He could have cut left or right through the trees and houses to seek cover and is much more logical.

No shots were fired until Arbery ATTACKED McMichaels. McMichaels has a right to defend himself.

The wounds in the autopsy results are consistent with shots fired during a struggle (e.g. through the hand and another at an upward angle from inside of a foot).

If there is more evidence then let it come out in court but based upon the totality of the circumstances it is pretty obvious to see why the McMichaels were not arrested at the time. Much like how George Zimmerman wasn't arrested at the time and only after the blacks started to complain does the political machine start to turn and then an arrest is made. So in summation: don't attack people with shotguns and your body is less likely to assume a room temperature.

This guy gets it.

Arbery could have ran another direction, instead he attacked a man holding a gun, probably over words spoken. Stupid move. These "Rednecks" are being tried in the court of public opinion.

AustinBR · May 13, 2020

EightySix said:
This guy gets it.

Arbery could have ran another direction, instead he attacked a man holding a gun, probably over words spoken. These "Rednecks" are being tried in the court of public opinion.

I think there is a bit more to it than that, though. It isn't as black and white as everyone makes it seem.

I don't think the two guys are truly murderers as the court of public opinion is labeling them, but I also think they are guilty of being absolutely stupid and making very poor decisions.

They had no business arming up and chasing a guy down the street for simply trespassing on someone else's property. They had no business getting out of their vehicle to confront the alleged criminal. If they want to follow the guy and get a good video for the police, that's one thing. But getting out and trying to make a 'citizens arrest' while armed with unrestrained/unretainable weapons is absolutely stupid and a recipe for disaster.

It's very likely that they'll get off without charges for pursuing to the various laws of GA, but their lives are ruined over them wanting to play cop. Ruined. They will forever receive death threats and will have to up-end their lives over this. Over a guy who trespassed in a construction property.

Guys with guns need to learn to not play hero. If you want to be a cop, almost every single department is having a hard time hiring people and would love to have applicants.

TLDR: Laws might not have been broken by the two, but they made a really stupid decision and are now living with the consequences of their stupid decision.

thperez1972 · May 13, 2020

Gator 45/70 said:
I believe it's a class1 felony to enter a dwelling in GA.
He was photographed at least 5 other times before this incident inside the home.1 he has a hammer in hand.

BlazinTheAmazin said:
@MOTOR51 I'll assume you are a property owner. Are you okay with unknown strangers entering your dwelling as long as they don't take anything??

Also, (and this part is just conjecture but certainly possible) I wouldn't put it past the home owner to claim nothing was stolen even if it was in order to avoid mobs of angry blacks "demonstrating" outside of his home. I certainly wouldn't want roving gangs of Trayvons and Michael Browns hanging around my property.

I can't speak for Georgia but, in Louisiana, an unoccupied home under construction would not be viewed as a dwelling.

Emperor · May 13, 2020

sarky said:
First the two murderers, over stepped their bounds, then they lied, the fact that one was a former cop throws a lot of shade on the cops he served with. Then there is the dumbassed DA who simply took their word and aided and abetted a crime after the fact. Plus the video. No, these two murderers, deserve to rot in jail as the play toy of a real hard criminal!

This is still the USA. They still get their day in court. Wouldn't matter if they are white, black, brown, purple, or polka-dotted! This is way too quick to condemn before adjudication.

thperez1972 · May 13, 2020

Vigilante Sniper said:
The GBI is reacting to the media hype from the outrage of the blacks in the community and NAACP. If they had evidence they would have arrested them sooner. I'll wait for the trial.

Is it possible that the first few had the evidence and ignored it? Isn't there a history of questionable decisions made by the prosecutors in that area?

thperez1972 · May 13, 2020

Jadams74 said:
#1) I wouldn't have gone after the guy armed because nobody's life was in immediate danger, I would have called the police and let them handle it. There's plenty of video evidence from the house under construction that he was up to no good and at the very least trespassing.
#2) If I were "just jogging" and unarmed in a neighborhood 10 miles from my home and saw 2 armed men blocking the way, I would have gone the other way or tried to go around. I definitely wouldn't have rushed the guy holding a shotgun and tried to take it away from him, especially if he had an armed friend with him.

Even if I were armed, and I usually am, I would have tried to carefully retreat given the chance before getting into a gun fight with 2 armed men, but that's just me.

He may think different than you do. He may have felt that by the time he saw them and recognized the situation, he would be shot in the back if he ran the other way and his best option was to defend himself was to disarm the bigger threat, the one in the road with the shotgun. Or maybe he was bats#!t crazy.

In an article linked by motor51, it appears the two had a confrontation a couple weeks prior. At what point did any of them recognize the other? Imagine if two weeks prior, the son told the jogger something like "if I see you in this neighborhood again, I'm going to kill you." And now they're standing in front of the jogger, armed with a pistol and a shotgun. Would that lead a reasonable person to believe the two might make good on their threat? I don't know if that was said at the earlier confrontation but I'm pretty sure they weren't exchanging Instant Pot recipes.

Ahmaud Arbery....Cue the Riots????

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