HB334 - CCW in place of worship

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  • DAVE_M

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    I have to ask: what is different about an active shooter situation in a church versus a store or a house or in any other location?

    I don't know of many stores or houses that have security teams. As previously stated in this thread, it would behoove the concealed carrier to find out if their church has a security team.

    If we're going to start carving out stricter legal requirements for one place, then we're going to hand the Democrats a legislative hammer in every other place. To wit: those in a shopping mall need 8 extra hours of magical shopping mall training. Those carrying in their private home need 8 extra hours of magical home training. Etcetera.

    While I disagree with the idea of it being a legal requirement, more training is never a bad thing.

    AND - we have several examples now of church shootings that were dealt with by lawfully armed citizens. None of the pandemonium that gets bloviated about has happened, and we don't have blood running in the streets because some people happen to lawfully put a pistol on after they put their pants on.

    While true, it's worth reviewing the incidents. Lots of guns out and people looking around with no idea of what is happening.

     

    RaleighReloader

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    I don't know of many stores or houses that have security teams. As previously stated in this thread, it would behoove the concealed carrier to find out if their church has a security team.

    Agreed. But that's a decision that the concealed carrier needs to make; *not* the State.

    While I disagree with the idea of it being a legal requirement, more training is never a bad thing.

    Again, we agree 100%. *Every* gun owner should be actively seeking out good quality training, and availing themselves to the opportunity to practice.

    While true, it's worth reviewing the incidents. Lots of guns out and people looking around with no idea of what is happening.

    This goes back to the training issue, and probably a healthy dose of situational awareness too.

    But there's nothing in the law (certainly nothing that HB334 deals with) that even remotely addresses any of this. HB334 just rolls back some of the Democratic Party fear mongering.

    Mike
     
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    ME (visiting a church): Pastor, I am John Smith and I am informing you that I am CCW.
    PASTOR: No worries, we believe in Jesus and the Constitution here. Just let me introduce you to our Security Team leader for this service, Joe Doe.
    PASTOR: Joe, meet John who is CCW.
    JOE: HI, John. Welcome to to The Church - glad you chose to worship with us. I'll inform the rest of the team members of your location and description. If anything goes down and you need to get involved we'll know who you are.
    JOHN: Thanks, nice to be here. Unless the situation directly involves me I'll keep holstered and out of sight.
    JOE: Great. Thanks.
    JOE (to on-duty security team members via radio comm): Blue Team - CCW C.5-14, asian male, aqua jacket/orange slacks. Acknowledge.
    Everybody happy and safe - happy ending.
     
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    OR:;;;;;;;

    ME: visit new church and find a seat in C.5-14.
    Perp stands up 3 rows in front of me and aims handgun at pastor behind pulpit.

    ME: Holy poop!!!! I have perfect line of fire at perp with blank wall backdrop - draw to take out perp. Easy shot.

    BLUE SECURITY TEAM MEMBERS 1 THROUGH 4: Holy poop. 2 perps up front pointing handguns toward pastor. Stop threat to pastor and congregation. Center of mass shots on both. Threat resolved. Less 1 perspective new member.
     
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    I know not all churches have security teams and many that do are not that well trained. In those cases, I still don't see a problem letting the church leader know who you are.
    But I see the points all you guys are making. Thanks for adding different perspectives to the discussion.
    Looks like 344 will probably pass - if JBE don't veto it.

    (And if the CCW law requiring a permit holder to inform a property owner that they are carrying and asking permission to enter applies to businesses and churches, the church leader should be informed anyway. I thought that only applied to home owners/renters/etc. since we do not inform every business we enter of the fact we are armed, or at least I don't.)
     

    DAVE_M

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    Agreed. But that's a decision that the concealed carrier needs to make; *not* the State.



    Again, we agree 100%. *Every* gun owner should be actively seeking out good quality training, and availing themselves to the opportunity to practice.



    This goes back to the training issue, and probably a healthy dose of situational awareness too.

    But there's nothing in the law (certainly nothing that HB334 deals with) that even remotely addresses any of this. HB334 just rolls back some of the Democratic Party fear mongering.

    Mike

    As I’ve previously stated, I’m okay with the Bill.

    I’m not okay with people who choose to carry a gun and don’t seek training.
     

    Tboy

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    SVT Bansheeman

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    I called the catholic diocese of lafourche Parish to see if they allow carry but due to bo reception at work, i miss their call back.

    I don't think any one person owns catholic churches. And i don't agree with the priest, diocese or person in charge saying you can't.

    Last time i googled the law, it said you need 8 hours of training as well.

    I threat is as someone's personal property. If they dont want it, i dont go. Concealed is concealed and if you use it, there's always a good chance youll need an attorney which cost a fortune. I can go on about religion and constitution but that will be offensive. Have a good evening.
     
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    XD-GEM

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    (And if the CCW law requiring a permit holder to inform a property owner that they are carrying and asking permission to enter applies to businesses and churches, the church leader should be informed anyway. I thought that only applied to home owners/renters/etc. since we do not inform every business we enter of the fact we are armed, or at least I don't.)

    Present law requires permission to carry concealed in any residence other than your own. You do not need to ask a business's permission, but they can restrict you by signage or personally informing you.

    The new version of 334 as passed (if the governor does not veto it) will still require permission from the person in charge of the place of worship for you to carry concealed there. You cannot simply do so on your own. The law does not state how that permission is to be given, nor does it require the permission to be given each time. Therefor, a one-time permission should be good forever, or at least until withdrawn.
     

    Tboy

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    The amended bill basically does nothing but clarify what was already there. They neutered it.

    Got rid of

    except as provided for in Subsection U of this Section

    And added

    unless authorized by the person who has authority over the administration of the church, synagogue, mosque, or other similar place of worship.
     
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    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
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    The amended bill basically does nothing but clarify what was already there. They neutered it.

    Got rid of



    And added

    Yup. The RINO's caved in.

    We need to make sure we broadcast this loud and clear in the next election.

    Mike

    Looks like 344 was amended to include "with permission of church leadership".

    I don't attend churches, so this doesn't affect me; but what gutless and spineless **** this is. And those dirt bags do this ALL THE TIME!
     
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