Quick and easy explanation for full-auto ownership?

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  • kcinnick

    Training Ferrous Metal
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    Dec 24, 2008
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    So? I just helped the widow of a friend transfer six MG's and a few cans to her on individual form 4's, no big deal with PDF files. In most states, if the "owner" of the trust dies, then the whole trust must be recreated.

    First I am not a lawyer, you should consult your lawyer about your trust.

    Trusts can last for a very long time, some are designed to keep family property in the family perpetually. They do not die "when the owner dies".

    Next, what is this widow going to do when she dies? You used up the one freebie transfer. If she would have had a knowledgeable person help her with a trust she could have ensured the tax free ownership of those items for multiple generations.
     

    dougstump

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    First I am not a lawyer, you should consult your lawyer about your trust.

    Trusts can last for a very long time, some are designed to keep family property in the family perpetually. They do not die "when the owner dies".

    Next, what is this widow going to do when she dies? You used up the one freebie transfer. If she would have had a knowledgeable person help her with a trust she could have ensured the tax free ownership of those items for multiple generations.

    Where does it say only one tax free transfer? It's not in the BATF documents. In this case, I have no idea what her plans are for the weapons, none of my business. There are no children so she may end up selling them.
     

    dougstump

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    Without a mile long narrative, what forms, certifications, fees and bs do i need to have to own and purchase a full-auto weapon in Louisiana?

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned, if you decide to acquire an MG that qualifies as a Curio & Relic (for example a WWII Thompson), get your C & R FFL. It's $90 for three years. Then the MG can be transferred directly to you from out of state. Lately, they have even been approving transfer from an out of state non license holder straight to a C & R FFL.

    You also won't have to get permission to cross state lines with your MG.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Where does it say only one tax free transfer? It's not in the BATF documents. In this case, I have no idea what her plans are for the weapons, none of my business. There are no children so she may end up selling them.

    Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney.

    WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR A ATF 5320.5 APPLICATION FOR TAX EXEMPT TRANSFER AND REGISTRATION OF NFA FIREARMS?

    In this article we discuss what is required to use the ATF 5320.5 Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of Firearm. If you are trying to transfer your NFA firearm with the the ATF 5320.5 - ATF Form 5 application as an heir, you will need to submit additional paperwork and need to understand the process involved. The executor of the estate will be require to sign and fill out boxes 9 through 11 of the ATF 5320.5. The executor of the estate will hold onto the NFA firearm that is being applied to transfer until the ATF 5320.5 application has been approved. At that point the individual, trust or legal entity named in box 2a. will be able to take possession of the NFA firearm from the executor. If you are the executor and the heir, then you will be able to take possession of the NFA firearm, while the ATF 5320.5 form is being approved. The average approval time for the ATF 5320.5 is one month.

    If in box 1 of the ATF 5320.5 you are checking the "Firearm is being transferred to a lawful heir or by operation of law" box then the below will apply to you. When this box is checked you will need to supply the ATF with additional paperwork with your ATF 5320.5 paperwork.

    Death Certificate: You will need to include a death certificate of the person named in box 3a of your ATF 5320.5 application.
    Will or Gun Trust paperwork: You will need to include a copy of the will or trust paperwork that names you as the beneficiary. The name of the beneficiary should match the box in 2a. If you are using a trust to transfer the NFA firearm then your information (as a beneficiary) will be used on the ATF 5320.23 Responsible Person Questionnaire paperwork.

    So it doesn't sound like a trust is dead in the water like you claim, but then again... I'm not an attorney. Are you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    You also won't have to get permission to cross state lines with your MG.

    Uh... yea... there is a form for that.
     

    kcinnick

    Training Ferrous Metal
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    Uh... yea... there is a form for that.

    A broken clock is right twice a day. An FFL can bring machine guns across state lines without a 5320, I do not know if this applies to C&R FFL holders transferring C&R Machine guns, but I don't recall ever seeing the rules exclude a C&R FFL from doing so. If I ever buy a C&R Machine gun on my C&R FFL I will look into it, but I probably will never not have a machine gun in my trust AND I like to let my C&R lapse every 3 years so I can trash the paperwork.

    As far as only one transfer being allowed on a form 5, I got it from the ATF. (The ATF could very well be wrong about the law) They said you can't do an individual form 5 to another individual form 5 when I was helping an estate transfer all of their NFA items. The person who died received them from her husband on a form 5 and when she passed her sons attempted to get them on a form 5 and they were denied. There was a whole lot more to it, but that is their business. They set up a trust, trashed all the cans because they didn't want to pay $200 a piece for them, and put the MG's in a trust in both of the brothers names with beneficiaries for multiple generations. I only did 3 estates when I had my SOT so I am not a super expert, but all 3 estates they didn't have a trust and they didn't have anybody knowledgeable about NFA items to navigate the waters. I know guys that it wouldn't surprise me if they did 3 a week, the kind of guys with private planes that fly all over the country go after machine guns. They don't want to help the family though, they want to buy the machine guns as cheap as they can to flip them.
     

    cajun 22

    Shooter
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    May 22, 2008
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    Owning a MG is not any harder that buying a gun. It just takes more money and time.

    Another benefit of the trust is that your NFA goodies do not become public record. LA is a probate state and your entire life is on display when you die. A trust lives on after you die as the successor trustee takes over grantor duties. You die and life goes on. No paperwork other than amending you off of the trust. The only downside is that all "responsible persons" have to do the fingerprint/photo thing for every transfer.

    Machineguns are the apex of the NFA world. You start with SBRs, SBSs, and suppressors. Then you want to run out of ammo faster than anyone else. If you have the funds I say do it. It's one of the very few items you can put unlimited mileage on and still not loose money. Others have given good advice on going to a range that rents them to see what you like and fits your budget.

    You can never pay too much for a machinegun, you can only pay it too soon.
     

    Mannelite

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    Apr 26, 2019
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    Without a mile long narrative, what forms, certifications, fees and bs do i need to have to own and purchase a full-auto weapon in Louisiana?


    I don't own any Class III or NFA items, that being said. I think you should consult an attorney or industry professional, or at least do the research yourself. The fact of the matter is, there is lots of nuance, there are several classifications for firearms and licenses. I've looked into it several times before and it is confusing. You are going to get no where asking random people on the internet, and especially going nowhere asking for the cliff-notes version.... My advice, save a bunch of money, probably AT LEAST ~$10K for anything that's combat functional, find someone selling one on Gunbroker, and ask them what you need to do for them to sell it to you. The seller will most likely give you the best information (outside of a legal or industry professional) because they don't want to go to prison for 100 years either. They also want to make the $10K sale, so they will be more incentivized to help you through this confusing matter than random people on the internet. Good Luck.
     

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