Training - Those who get it and those who don't

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    I think we're violently agreeing.

    His point (or, at least, his point as I interpreted it) is that when you're training, you start slow and steady, so that you can properly develop the motions. With practice, the speed will come.

    Mike

    Within context.

    You don’t get fast by shooting slow.

    First time I shot a perfect score on a drill, I was satisfied. I met the goal, but now I had to shoot it faster. I try to document everything so I can track performance.
     

    buttanic

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 2, 2010
    1,254
    63
    LaPlace, LA
    I got a CHP 10 years ago when I made 65, I didn't get it earlier because I am a cheap SOB and didn't want to pay full price. Since then I have taken several courses with Advantage group and also try to learn from reading and videos. I have a private range so I can shoot whenever I want and most of it is with the G 19 I carry. I probably shoot 2000 to 3000 rounds a year. As someone previously wrote classes aren't cheap especially when you are retired and on a fixed income. I have to balance what I spend on shooting with other activities with my wife and family.
    I would like to be able to take classes every few months but it just ain't happening.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    Okay, about what?

    Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

    Probably nothing to do with this thread.

    Speaking of training, it’s nice to see there are local outfits still hosting classes during this odd *pandemic.*
     

    flamatrix99

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    62   0   0
    Oct 7, 2008
    5,282
    48
    Zachary, La
    I really do think it is a time and/or issue with many folks. I, for example, I work rotating shift work. So before I want to do anything gun related or not I have to see if I am working. Then we all have commitments at home. Grass cutting, honey do projects or straight up goof off time relaxing. I only get to the range 3-4 times a year. I want to go more but never seem to make it. I will have days off coming up and I think I need to get my stuff together to go shooting but by the time its time to go back to work I never seem to actually make it to the range. I took the Gunfighter I class with Advantage Group many years ago. It was a good class but I do not shoot all the time so those things learned are lost over time. I need to take it again but spending a weekend at a range is a lot time. I do have a CC permit but I generally do not use it. Since I am a vet it's free so why not??? I think I know more people that either have permits and don't use them or just keep a pistol in their vehicle and not worry about paying for the permit and training. IMHO it seems very few actually CC outside of BS.com. And I am always surprised when I hear people say that it's illegal to carry a firearm.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    I really do think it is a time and/or issue with many folks. I, for example, I work rotating shift work. So before I want to do anything gun related or not I have to see if I am working. Then we all have commitments at home. Grass cutting, honey do projects or straight up goof off time relaxing. I only get to the range 3-4 times a year. I want to go more but never seem to make it. I will have days off coming up and I think I need to get my stuff together to go shooting but by the time its time to go back to work I never seem to actually make it to the range. I took the Gunfighter I class with Advantage Group many years ago. It was a good class but I do not shoot all the time so those things learned are lost over time. I need to take it again but spending a weekend at a range is a lot time. I do have a CC permit but I generally do not use it. Since I am a vet it's free so why not??? I think I know more people that either have permits and don't use them or just keep a pistol in their vehicle and not worry about paying for the permit and training. IMHO it seems very few actually CC outside of BS.com. And I am always surprised when I hear people say that it's illegal to carry a firearm.

    This could lead into a discussion on dry fire. It doesn't matter how much training you have, a good dry fire routine can be very helpful. Airsoft pistols, SIRT pistols, and even blue guns can help a good routine at home.


     
    Last edited:

    Tboy

    Moving forward
    Rating - 100%
    87   0   0
    Jul 14, 2008
    1,636
    48
    Greenwell Springs
    This could lead into a discussion on dry fire. It doesn't matter how much training you have, a good dry fire routine can be very helpful. Airsoft pistols, SIRT pistols, and even blue guns can help a good routine at home.




    Good info.

    Incorporating a shot timer into a dry fire session pays off. Allowing you to benchmark yourself and then compare the times to what you did last time or when you can do the same drills with live ammo.

    Something else that’s easy to do now days is to video yourself from different angles during a dry fire session and playback to see where you can make improvements. Most phones have slo mo capabilities and it can really help to detect little things That you’d normally not see.

    One thing that I picked up on during a session was that as I sped up to beat the set par time I would bring my finger to the trigger sooner than I realized I was doing it. I made the mental note and was able to correct it quickly.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    Good info.

    Incorporating a shot timer into a dry fire session pays off. Allowing you to benchmark yourself and then compare the times to what you did last time or when you can do the same drills with live ammo.

    Something else that’s easy to do now days is to video yourself from different angles during a dry fire session and playback to see where you can make improvements. Most phones have slo mo capabilities and it can really help to detect little things That you’d normally not see.

    One thing that I picked up on during a session was that as I sped up to beat the set par time I would bring my finger to the trigger sooner than I realized I was doing it. I made the mental note and was able to correct it quickly.

    I have taken a class with John Mcphee where slow motion video is used to break down the mechanics or your presentation and grip. Video and shot timers are invaluable tools. Having the video saved to rewatch whenever I need to is very helpful. It’s tough to break bad habits.
     
    Rating - 100%
    41   0   0
    Jun 24, 2009
    2,839
    63
    Pineville/Alexandria
    I think a 91 year old packing a gun is bad ass.

    I had a student in that group. Had to go to his home to give him private renewal classes 'cuz he went off on tangents about WWII and his part in Iwo Jima (and more). Hard to keep the class on tract/time but I enjoyed hearing the stories. So I just gave him private classes - no charge. He'd paid enough dues.
    He told of an encounter on I-49 between Alexandria and Opelousas where a carload of thugs kept messing with him until he pulled out his 1911 and pointed it at them and they hauled a$$.
    I told him that the situation could have escalated ending up with him in jail. He said "So if I had blown them a-holes away and they got me for murder, at my age all they'd get is a couple of years out of me. F - 'em!"
    He's been gone a while now but I still miss those private classes and the great stories. RIP, Mr "A" - and thank you for your service.
     

    RaleighReloader

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    33   0   0
    Jan 30, 2015
    1,177
    48
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Within context.

    You don’t get fast by shooting slow.

    First time I shot a perfect score on a drill, I was satisfied. I met the goal, but now I had to shoot it faster. I try to document everything so I can track performance.

    Again, we're violently agreeing.

    Shooting slowly allows one to isolate the many motions required for a clean draw and presentation. It allows one to understand the mechanics of acquiring good sight picture. Etcetera.

    Once those things are understood, speed can be gradually increased without sacrificing those fundamentals.

    When I'm not getting the results I want, I slow down a bit and go back to the fundamentals. Then, once I have self-corrected, I work the speed back in.

    Trying to do it quickly without a good understanding of those mechanicals is just a waste of ammunition. Which is fine if you just want to make smoke and noise.

    I'm not arguing against speed ... I'm just arguing that a slower pace is a tool in the toolbox of learning. It has its place too.

    Mike
     

    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    I had a student in that group. Had to go to his home to give him private renewal classes 'cuz he went off on tangents about WWII and his part in Iwo Jima (and more). Hard to keep the class on tract/time but I enjoyed hearing the stories. So I just gave him private classes - no charge. He'd paid enough dues.
    He told of an encounter on I-49 between Alexandria and Opelousas where a carload of thugs kept messing with him until he pulled out his 1911 and pointed it at them and they hauled a$$.
    I told him that the situation could have escalated ending up with him in jail. He said "So if I had blown them a-holes away and they got me for murder, at my age all they'd get is a couple of years out of me. F - 'em!"
    He's been gone a while now but I still miss those private classes and the great stories. RIP, Mr "A" - and thank you for your service.

    I totally understand how those who saw actual combat and killing in WWII would have no patience with modern day thuggery!
     

    southerncanuck

    www.RangeSport.com (Use code "BayouShooter")
    Premium Member
    Industry Partner
    Rating - 100%
    62   0   0
    Dec 3, 2019
    839
    63
    New Orleans
    I think FRC in BR has a similar program of shorter (and cheaper) classes. You should look into it.

    Took your advice. Drove up to BR this eve to take a class at FRC with John and it was awesome — thanks for the tip, will definitely be back for more. Well worth the mileage.
     

    BDill

    What's This For Again
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Sep 28, 2016
    528
    18
    Destrehan, LA
    If your really that pressed for time I'm pretty sure that all the local trainers in the area offer private lessons that you get full 2 day weekend courses in about 4-6 hours or so. May cost a bit more to do it this way but its well worth it. Haven't had the chance to get instructor training in this year so far but its on the radar coming soon!
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    If your really that pressed for time I'm pretty sure that all the local trainers in the area offer private lessons that you get full 2 day weekend courses in about 4-6 hours or so. May cost a bit more to do it this way but its well worth it. Haven't had the chance to get instructor training in this year so far but its on the radar coming soon!

    VATA will be offering a few more courses this year.

    Phobos Solutions has been holding courses nearly every weekend at MCTA.
     

    BDill

    What's This For Again
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Sep 28, 2016
    528
    18
    Destrehan, LA
    VATA will be offering a few more courses this year.

    Phobos Solutions has been holding courses nearly every weekend at MCTA.

    yeah. Really thinking about their low light in a few weeks. Did one with advantage at the FRC shoot house last year. If you think you can win in your house just because you blow out a target at the range at 10-15 yards you need to reconsider your options.
     

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,791
    113
    yeah. Really thinking about their low light in a few weeks. Did one with advantage at the FRC shoot house last year. If you think you can win in your house just because you blow out a target at the range at 10-15 yards you need to reconsider your options.

    And to think that most people only shoot at 3, 5, and 7 yards lol
     

    Lets_Ride

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    May 15, 2013
    306
    18
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    I'll chime in on this as a newer shooter, but one who is fairly deeply invested in both sport and self-defence aspects of shooting. I for one desperately want more training. I love getting my ass kicked, I love a steep learning curve, I love being around experts, and I love being coached. I want to try competition one day maybe if I can. I want to be able to defend my family instinctively and confidently.

    For me, the biggest hurdle is the large time blocks required by off-the-shelf courses. I have time to train, and I go to the range at least once a week, but that's only about a two hour commitment (30 mins each way, hour at the range). I've found a bunch of great courses but most are weekend affairs and thus inaccessible for logistical reasons. I was just reading a book by the founders of KR Training in Texas and something they said in the book resonated with Dave's comment here. I'll copy it below:

    More than a decade ago, KR training converted most of the courses it offers into 3- and 4- hour blocks designed as a series. Teaching everything someone needs to know in a 4-hour class is an impossible task. Consequently, the burden is on the instructor to prioritize skills in their course design. The competition for course time is comprised of family and job responsibilities, other interests, and, of course, dollars. The reality is that more people can spend 4 hours, $100, and 200 rounds on a Saturday training class than there are people who can spend $500, 20 hours, and 1,000 rounds on an all weekend course.

    I actually had this highlighted in the book, because I would kill for something like this within driving distance here in LA: a series of sequential shorter classes over a month or two. For someone like me, there's a big gap between supply and demand for accessible training locally -- we don't really have anything between "Pistols 101" and "Commando Camp Weekend" (that I can find easily, at least). Since I can't commit to a full weekend course, other than one-on-one instruction by the hour, I'm basically relegated to a LOT of reading, a lot of videos, dedicated drills at range time, and loads of dry fire practice. It's not about money or willingness, it's just about availability.

    Talk to the guys at MCTA. They do custom classes and I am sure they could hook you up.
     

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    195,221
    Messages
    1,546,084
    Members
    29,168
    Latest member
    Lyle.lejeune2017
    Top Bottom