Training - Those who get it and those who don't

Jlong1691 · Jun 10, 2020

If Gomez was still alive I'd train more. I haven't met anyone I enjoyed training with as much as Paul. Just because you don't see a person at classes doesn't mean they aren't training. There's always more than one way to skin a cat. Over the years firearm training has always been a conglomeration of best practices by recognized experts. People like Jeff Cooper and his peers, much like peer reviewed and accepted medical research. Now days people especially the younger generation think that because professor x did it this way , that must be the only way.

Find me another trainer that does it like Paul, and I'll be in.

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

Jlong1691 said:
If Gomez was still alive I'd train more. I haven't met anyone I enjoyed training with as much as Paul. Just because you don't see a person at classes doesn't mean they aren't training. There's always more than one way to skin a cat. Over the years firearm training has always been a conglomeration of best practices by recognized experts. People like Jeff Cooper and his peers, much like peer reviewed and accepted medical research. Now days people especially the younger generation think that because professor x did it this way , that must be the only way.

Find me another trainer that does it like Paul, and I'll be in.

Paul Gomez wasn’t the end all be all instructor. If Paul was here today, he would be telling you to seek training from multiple instructors.

Jlong1691 · Jun 10, 2020

DAVE_M said:
Paul Gomez wasn’t the end all be all instructor. If Paul was here today, he would be telling you to seek training from multiple instructors.

You really do have something to say about everything don't you? I never said he was the end all, but he was my friend. I personally haven't found anyone with whom I enjoy training with as much. You are one of the main reasons I quit this site last time, and will likely be the reason this will likely be my last post on this account. I have over 25 years training, and am as much a student today as I was 25 years ago. I spent years with Paul on his journey, Long before he was an instructor or even the training bum. He was well versed in many disciplines, and well respected among many of the people you probably take classes from today. It is easy to build a relationship with an instructor you are paying. Paul gave freely much of his knowledge in Jefferson Rd Park. I don't see many doing that around anymore.

I trained side by side with Paul in Escrima, Muay Thai, and Kaji with Ron, for years. We sparred traded thoughts on a plethora of subjects. I was around to see some of his struggles, and his victories. Paul's knowledge came from a lifetime of work. I have met many good instructors, bad instructors, and plain old instructors over a number of years. I'll just keep doing what I have been, put rounds down range, and leave the opinions to people like you who have one about **** they know nothing about. You don't know what Gomez would tell me if he were still around. You don't know me, and I question how well you knew him.

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

I simply commented that he, like most instructors, advocated for training by many instructors.

Jlong1691 · Jun 10, 2020

The first part of your simple comment was instigative, and offensive. Followed by what would have otherwise been a sound statement.

One of the first things I had to learn, when becoming an instructor years ago, was how to be less abrasive. You do have some sound points, and I don't disagree with everything you say all the time. However cannot take your side, because you get as much wrong based on your strong opinions as you get correct.

You like to mix your opinions as matter of facts. You could have easily left off the "Gomez wasn't the end all" comment. I met many of the people I knew from this forum at Jefferson Park under Gomez's tutelage. It would have been more well received.

Take it for what it's worth. Here comes my sly quip from this post. If you were half the student you say you are, you'll see the value in what other people who may be older and wiser are trying to convey in not so many words. I learned far more with my mouth closed and my mind open, than I ever learned while running my mouth, and blocking the passage of information to my brain with my opinions.

Classes aren't the only way to knowledge, they are just faster. Training doesn't always mean classes, just like all classes shouldn't be considered training.

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

I'm not asking you to pick sides. I stated a fact, which you acknowledged, but someone took offense to it. I have no issues with Paul Gomez or his work.

Since you were so close to Paul, did he advocate for training with other instructors? Yes or no?

I learned much more by opening my mouth, because a lot of people lack the ability to question things. Understanding WHY is much more important than paying a fee and having someone tell you that they are right. If the instructor can't articulate why, then you need to find a new instructor.

Age isn't an automatic qualifier for wisdom. Funny that you mentioned it. There are many elder instructors that defy the idea of having a "plastic" gun with a battery powered gizmo on it. Times change and so does training.

troy_mclure · Jun 10, 2020

back when i was single and working offshore i had tons of time and money for classes.
now that i work 40hr weeks, commute, own a home, have a family, and all that comes with it and i can barely find time to go to the range every couple of months, letalone 2-3 days for a class.
and lets not talk about the costs, with ammo your cost is looking $300-$500 for a short cheap course. and thats not including if the instructor wants special equipment, 47 mags, etc...

and whoever said people can afford parades or festivals but not train, it cost me maybe $50 and 4 hours to take my family to a parade. i dont see how they equate at all.

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

Btw, you could have petitioned the Admins and Moderators to unban your Troedoff account instead of making a new account just to argue.

Jlong1691 · Jun 10, 2020

It was much easier to do it this way, and I don't want it to be said I was hiding behind an internet pseudonym. This site is cancer because of people like you.

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

Jlong1691 said:
It was much easier to do it this way, and I don't want it to be said I was hiding behind an internet pseudonym. This site is cancer because of people like you.

Were you wearing your official instructor shirt when you typed that?

The firearms industry is cancer, because of instructors like you.

AustinBR · Jun 10, 2020

Jlong1691 said:
It was much easier to do it this way, and I don't want it to be said I was hiding behind an internet pseudonym. This site is cancer because of people like you.

Well that's just not nice or correct. There is nothing wrong with challenging 'why' people believe something.

Everyone "knows" something that actually isn't true, but they will adamantly defend it, often even in the presence of conflicting facts.

Regarding instructors or classes, there is no 'best' out there, but there certainly is 'better.'

AustinBR · Jun 10, 2020

DAVE_M said:
Were you wearing your official instructor shirt when you typed that?

The firearms industry is cancer, because of instructors like you.

Also not nice. Be nice fellers. We can all disagree politely.

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

AustinBR said:
Also not nice. Be nice fellers. We can all disagree politely.

My apologies.

Last time jlong1691 a.k.a. Troedoff disagreed, he left the forum. Making a new account just to argue is a bannable offense, is it not?

JBP55 · Jun 10, 2020

It is hard for someone to argue by himself unless he keeps disagreeing with himself.

Bangswitch · Jun 10, 2020

AustinBR said:
Well that's just not nice or correct. There is nothing wrong with challenging 'why' people believe something.

Everyone "knows" something that actually isn't true, but they will adamantly defend it, often even in the presence of conflicting facts.

Regarding instructors or classes, there is no 'best' out there, but there certainly is 'better.'

And if they run smooth out of arguments they make them up like how ‘Tesla’s can discharge into the ground safely’.

AustinBR · Jun 10, 2020

Bangswitch said:
And if they run smooth out of arguments they make them up like how ‘Tesla’s can discharge into the ground safely’.

Hey now, I was very clear when I said that I guessed they had some safety feature like that. I also don't claim to have any real working knowledge of electricity, aside from the absolute basics.

Bangswitch · Jun 10, 2020

AustinBR said:
Hey now, I was very clear when I said that I guessed they had some safety feature like that. I also don't claim to have any real working knowledge of electricity, aside from the absolute basics.

Haha you know I mean no harm. It’s clear I’m here for the BSing. :rofl:

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

Bangswitch said:
And if they run smooth out of arguments they make them up like how ‘Tesla’s can discharge into the ground safely’.

I prefer to argue about Wheat or Whitebread.

- - - Updated - - -

JBP55 said:
It is hard for someone to argue by himself unless he keeps disagreeing with himself.

Fair point. Makes you wonder why many people were disagreeing with him.

Bangswitch · Jun 10, 2020

DAVE_M said:
I prefer to argue about Wheat or Whitebread.

That would be an interesting debate...

would you believe I don’t eat whitebread. :rofl:

DAVE_M · Jun 10, 2020

Bangswitch said:
That would be an interesting debate...

would you believe I don’t eat whitebread.

I believe it. Speaking of sammiches. They are great to pack in your range bag for training classes.

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