Does a BB gun (pistol) count as a concealed weapon law violation in Louisiana?

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  • Magdump

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    Not knowing the specifics, I would defer to the arrest being based on the totality of circumstances. If the BB gun was in his backpack, I'd lean towards him transporting it. But, based on the OP, "he informed them he carried a BB gun while walking." That tends to suggest this was not a one time behavior. If he carries it whenever he goes walking, the reasonable conclusion is he's carrying it to use it as a weapon. Based on his sentence, it would be relatively easy to articulate his intention to use it as a dangerous weapon.
    I would go further and say that he shouldn’t be lawfully charged for simply carrying the BB gun. If he was brandishing the piece as a deadly weapon or in any menacing manner (Which would likely get him shot) then yes. What you’re talking about is something that can have the mere appearance of being a dangerous weapon by mistaken identity, but fully informing the officer that he has on his person, a BB gun or cap gun or a GI Joe cock ring Or whatever, followed by the officer removing, inspecting and correctly identifying the object and by his own admission understanding that it’s not a firearm should not even raise an eyebrow of a good DA. Also, if the officer asked a question about weapons and the guy’s answer included ‘BB pistol’ that does not mean the guy considered it a weapon but rightly knew the cop was about to find something that looked like a firearm and apparently he was smart enough to know he better ID the object beforehand or risk being shot.
    These are my opinions formed from daily life. I’m not, nor have I ever entertained any notion of becoming an attorney, but I am a very reasonable person, and something along those lines partly relies on what a reasonable person would think or do. It would be a crying shame if case law made it illegal to carry a partially eaten pop tart in your pocket because it looks like a gun. You can’t make a BB pistol a firearm when it comes to firearms laws. Judges know these things. But you can be shot for having less in your hand.

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    oleheat

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    I wonder how this turned out? People get arrested all the time- but that doesn't automatically mean they get convicted of the charges. Maybe the judge was a Daisy collector. :dogkeke:
     

    CAJUNLAWYER

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    Not calling you out but I would have to question this one because almost anything can be used as a weapon if you know what you are doing. That would mean you could be arrested for keys, pencil, belt, cell phone (glass screen, lithium battery) among many others.

    You are correct. Which is why people are charged with aggravated battery when they hit people with beer bottles-or baseball bats ot gouge eyes out with keys, or cut people with eyelash shavers. If you use ANY instrumentality to harm someone it is a weapon under the law. How do I know this with such certainty you ask......37 years doing criminal defense law. I've had clients convicted with armed robbery using a BB gun that was upheld by the appellate courts
     

    MOTOR51

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    You are correct. Which is why people are charged with aggravated battery when they hit people with beer bottles-or baseball bats ot gouge eyes out with keys, or cut people with eyelash shavers. If you use ANY instrumentality to harm someone it is a weapon under the law. How do I know this with such certainty you ask......37 years doing criminal defense law. I've had clients convicted with armed robbery using a BB gun that was upheld by the appellate courts

    Glad they upheld it. Being a BB gun doesn’t take away the fear a victim goes through while being victimized, regardless if they find out later it was a BB gun.


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    Magdump

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    You are correct. Which is why people are charged with aggravated battery when they hit people with beer bottles-or baseball bats ot gouge eyes out with keys, or cut people with eyelash shavers. If you use ANY instrumentality to harm someone it is a weapon under the law. How do I know this with such certainty you ask......37 years doing criminal defense law. I've had clients convicted with armed robbery using a BB gun that was upheld by the appellate courts
    I completely agree. But what about someone not caught in the act of Or suspected of committing any violent crime and or not known to have used the item carried in any crime?
     

    4-14

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    Just so y’all know, I’m pretty sure that was a chick. Anybody here actually live in WBR?
     

    thperez1972

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    I completely agree. But what about someone not caught in the act of Or suspected of committing any violent crime and or not known to have used the item carried in any crime?

    What about them? He stated he carries it when he goes walking. Is it unreasonable to conclude he does so with the intention of using it as a dangerous weapon if need be?
     

    Magdump

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    What about them? He stated he carries it when he goes walking. Is it unreasonable to conclude he does so with the intention of using it as a dangerous weapon if need be?
    Well, I think you already said it. The ‘if need be’ part. Do you mean a defensive weapon? As in something he might use to fend off an attack? Like pepper spray or a walking stick? Because last time I checked, not a crime. My question centered around someone not committing a crime.
    Also, we aren’t to the ‘Minority Report’ days just yet. Concluding anything about a future crime sounds weak to me. But I’m not a cop or a DA so I’m prolly super wrong.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Well, I think you already said it. The ‘if need be’ part. Do you mean a defensive weapon? As in something he might use to fend off an attack? Like pepper spray or a walking stick? Because last time I checked, not a crime. My question centered around someone not committing a crime.
    Also, we aren’t to the ‘Minority Report’ days just yet. Concluding anything about a future crime sounds weak to me. But I’m not a cop or a DA so I’m prolly super wrong.

    Defensive doesn’t matter. It’s illegal to conceal a weapon in Louisiana. The only exemption is concealing a handgun with a valid CHP.

    Carrying a concealed bb gun to defend yourself is as illegal as someone concealing a knife to defend themselves.
     

    thperez1972

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    Well, I think you already said it. The ‘if need be’ part. Do you mean a defensive weapon? As in something he might use to fend off an attack? Like pepper spray or a walking stick? Because last time I checked, not a crime. My question centered around someone not committing a crime.
    Also, we aren’t to the ‘Minority Report’ days just yet. Concluding anything about a future crime sounds weak to me. But I’m not a cop or a DA so I’m prolly super wrong.

    I mean a weapon. There's no need to look at future crimes when talking about a concealed weapon. Without a permit, a person walking around carrying a concealed weapon is committing a crime. It's the crime of carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.
     

    DAVE_M

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    I mean a weapon. There's no need to look at future crimes when talking about a concealed weapon. Without a permit, a person walking around carrying a concealed weapon is committing a crime. It's the crime of carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.

    And being that there is only one type of permit that permits carrying a concealed weapon, specifically a handgun, concealing any weapon other than a handgun with a valid CHP is illegal.

    This debate seems to come up often. People confuse their feelings with the law.
     

    Magdump

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    I mean a weapon. There's no need to look at future crimes when talking about a concealed weapon. Without a permit, a person walking around carrying a concealed weapon is committing a crime. It's the crime of carrying a concealed weapon without a permit.
    so you believe a BB pistol is a weapon. What about the act of carrying something far more dangerous? Concealing a blade in your pocket sharp enough to kill, yet carried concealed on a daily basis by too many individuals to count. Are we all breaking the law? How is it decided what is considered a weapon? And can you show a law that says a BB pistol is considered a dangerous or deadly weapon as a firearm is? Forgive my lack of knowledge of the laws of Louisiana, but I’m not finding anything that considers a BB gun to be a weapon and it’s definitely not even mentioned in the description of a firearm nor is it treated the same in any laws that I can find except for what you can and cannot legally carry or conceal on certain property, such as a school or government building. Lastly, I realize many things can be considered a weapon once they’ve been used to inflict injury on a person, but until a person attempts to use an umbrella to stab someone or verbally or physically threatens to shove it up an orifice, how can the umbrella be considered a weapon when it simply being carried in a non threatening manner? Reading back,
    I realize my questions might seem sarcastic or provoking but I assure you that’s not my intention. I realize you’re the professional but I’m asking for clarification other than just saying it’s so. Common knowledge that carrying a concealed weapon is a crime, but is everything automatically considered a weapon?
     

    thperez1972

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    so you believe a BB pistol is a weapon. What about the act of carrying something far more dangerous? Concealing a blade in your pocket sharp enough to kill, yet carried concealed on a daily basis by too many individuals to count. Are we all breaking the law? How is it decided what is considered a weapon? And can you show a law that says a BB pistol is considered a dangerous or deadly weapon as a firearm is? Forgive my lack of knowledge of the laws of Louisiana, but I’m not finding anything that considers a BB gun to be a weapon and it’s definitely not even mentioned in the description of a firearm nor is it treated the same in any laws that I can find except for what you can and cannot legally carry or conceal on certain property, such as a school or government building. Lastly, I realize many things can be considered a weapon once they’ve been used to inflict injury on a person, but until a person attempts to use an umbrella to stab someone or verbally or physically threatens to shove it up an orifice, how can the umbrella be considered a weapon when it simply being carried in a non threatening manner? Reading back,
    I realize my questions might seem sarcastic or provoking but I assure you that’s not my intention. I realize you’re the professional but I’m asking for clarification other than just saying it’s so. Common knowledge that carrying a concealed weapon is a crime, but is everything automatically considered a weapon?

    From post 1:
    "He informed them he carried a BB gun while walking"

    From LA R.S. 14:95:
    A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:
    (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person;

    From LA R.S. 14:2:
    (3) "Dangerous weapon" includes any gas, liquid or other substance or instrumentality, which, in the manner used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

    From the same law:
    C. For purposes of this Title, "serious bodily injury" means bodily injury which involves unconsciousness; extreme physical pain; protracted and obvious disfigurement; protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member, organ, or mental faculty; or a substantial risk of death. For purposes of R.S. 14:403, "serious bodily injury" shall also include injury resulting from starvation or malnutrition.

    You asked about knives? It's covered in 14:95:
    (4)(a) The intentional concealment on one's person of any switchblade knife, spring knife, or other knife or similar instrument having a blade which may be automatically unfolded or extended from a handle by the manipulation of a button, switch, latch, or similar contrivance located on the handle.
    (b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply to the following:
    (i) Any knife that may be opened with one hand by manual pressure applied to the blade or any projection of the blade.
    (ii) Any knife that may be opened by means of inertia produced by the hand, wrist, or other movement, provided the knife has either a detent or other structure that provides resistance that shall be overcome in opening or initiating the opening movement of the blade or a bias or spring load toward the closed position.

    The primary purpose of a bb gun is to expel a projectile. In that respect it differs from an umbrella. You can argue if you'd like that a bb gun won't cause serious bodily injury as defined in the law but I will then suggest you let someone shoot you in the face to prove there is no associated extreme physical pain and no protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member, organ, or mental faculty.
     

    Magdump

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    From post 1:
    "He informed them he carried a BB gun while walking"

    From LA R.S. 14:95:
    A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:
    (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person;

    From LA R.S. 14:2:
    (3) "Dangerous weapon" includes any gas, liquid or other substance or instrumentality, which, in the manner used, is calculated or likely to produce death or great bodily harm.

    From the same law:
    C. For purposes of this Title, "serious bodily injury" means bodily injury which involves unconsciousness; extreme physical pain; protracted and obvious disfigurement; protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member, organ, or mental faculty; or a substantial risk of death. For purposes of R.S. 14:403, "serious bodily injury" shall also include injury resulting from starvation or malnutrition.

    You asked about knives? It's covered in 14:95:
    (4)(a) The intentional concealment on one's person of any switchblade knife, spring knife, or other knife or similar instrument having a blade which may be automatically unfolded or extended from a handle by the manipulation of a button, switch, latch, or similar contrivance located on the handle.
    (b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply to the following:
    (i) Any knife that may be opened with one hand by manual pressure applied to the blade or any projection of the blade.
    (ii) Any knife that may be opened by means of inertia produced by the hand, wrist, or other movement, provided the knife has either a detent or other structure that provides resistance that shall be overcome in opening or initiating the opening movement of the blade or a bias or spring load toward the closed position.

    The primary purpose of a bb gun is to expel a projectile. In that respect it differs from an umbrella. You can argue if you'd like that a bb gun won't cause serious bodily injury as defined in the law but I will then suggest you let someone shoot you in the face to prove there is no associated extreme physical pain and no protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member, organ, or mental faculty.
    I saw the original post and if he said what you’ve quoted, I don’t see any intent mentioned. I carry a BB gun while walking hardly infers any nefarious purpose for the pistol.
    But I’m not trying to argue. I’m simply looking for validation and still haven’t found it.
    As far as what damage can or cannot be done by a BB gun, can be done by a great many things that aren’t commonly identified as weapons. A taser has killed more than a couple of people. I can’t say I’ve ever heard it referred to as a weapon tho. Thanks for citing those laws. I notice it clearly states non auto knives don’t fit the bill but I’m wondering if that’s the current law, since the law covering automatics has changed. I’m wondering how other court cases have played out regarding concealed carry of a BB gun when not in the act of committing any crime and not on property forbidding such, unless of course there are none. Perhaps the case mentioned will provide precedent.
    It would be nice to be able to follow the case to outcome and see whether or not the guy is found guilty of carrying a concealed weapon.



    Back to post #2, I’ve tried to make a BB pistol fit but it doesn’t appear to me that it does.


    Part 6. Offenses Affecting the Public Generally Subpart A. Offenses Affecting the Public Safety
    § Sec. 14:95. Illegal carrying of weapons. A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:
    (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person


    Not a firearm
    I don’t know of any BB gun customarily used, intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon or even marketed for use as a deterrent, much less a deadly one.
     
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    thperez1972

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    I saw the original post and if he said what you’ve quoted, I don’t see any intent mentioned. I carry a BB gun while walking hardly infers any nefarious purpose for the pistol.
    But I’m not trying to argue. I’m simply looking for validation and still haven’t found it.
    As far as what damage can or cannot be done by a BB gun, can be done by a great many things that aren’t commonly identified as weapons. A taser has killed more than a couple of people. I can’t say I’ve ever heard it referred to as a weapon tho. Thanks for citing those laws. I notice it clearly states non auto knives don’t fit the bill but I’m wondering if that’s the current law, since the law covering automatics has changed. I’m wondering how other court cases have played out regarding concealed carry of a BB gun when not in the act of committing any crime and not on property forbidding such, unless of course there are none. Perhaps the case mentioned will provide precedent.
    It would be nice to be able to follow the case to outcome and see whether or not the guy is found guilty of carrying a concealed weapon.



    Back to post #2, I’ve tried to make a BB pistol fit but it doesn’t appear to me that it does.


    Part 6. Offenses Affecting the Public Generally Subpart A. Offenses Affecting the Public Safety
    § Sec. 14:95. Illegal carrying of weapons. A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:
    (1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person


    Not a firearm
    I don’t know of any BB gun customarily used, intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon or even marketed for use as a deterrent, much less a deadly one.

    He carries it when walking. That doesn't have to imply nefarious intent. It has to imply using the bb gun as a weapon.

    I cannot recall any cases where someone has died simply from being hit with a taser. In all the cases I heard of, there was some other health condition involved. So I'm not sure that's the best example.

    A bb gun doesn't fall under the "any firearm" phrase. It falls under the "or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon" phrase. The marketing is irrelevant. It doesn't have to be used as a deadly weapon. The person who had the bb gun implied he carried it for use as a dangerous weapon. Or is there a more reasonable reason for him to carry it when he goes walking?
     

    ozarkpugs

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    The mistake was giving a statement before talking to his lawyer . His lawyer would have reminded him that he had just purchased it and was taking it to show a friend .

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    Magdump

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    He carries it when walking. That doesn't have to imply nefarious intent. It has to imply using the bb gun as a weapon.

    I cannot recall any cases where someone has died simply from being hit with a taser. In all the cases I heard of, there was some other health condition involved. So I'm not sure that's the best example.

    A bb gun doesn't fall under the "any firearm" phrase. It falls under the "or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon" phrase. The marketing is irrelevant. It doesn't have to be used as a deadly weapon. The person who had the bb gun implied he carried it for use as a dangerous weapon. Or is there a more reasonable reason for him to carry it when he goes walking?
    Oh well. Tomato, tomato I guess. We just don’t see it the same. It sounds like an attorney should have no problem getting around implication if that’s all the guy said. Im sure pretty much any scenario is ample for an arrest and a ride to jail but I believe he’d have to have been a little more specific regarding intent for that to hold up in court. Like I said, hopefully there will be some feedback posted and we can see how far it goes.
    Last year in February it was 1,081 total documented deaths following taser deployment but as you said, underlying conditions, like being 80 years old, bad heart, and going timber face down on the pavement or whatever, but that would kinda go along with who to use a taser on and when to do so. Likely many were just due to poor judgement on somebody’s part.
    I haven’t looked into death rates from BB guns, so they could be around the same number, idk.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Tomato, tomato... lol

    The law is pretty cut and dry. It’s illegal to carry a concealed weapon, with the exception of a handgun and valid CHP.

    Whether you believe a concealed BB gun is a weapon or not is irrelevant.
     

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