Tesla / Energy Discussion

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  • DAVE_M

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    What are those? Is that something new? Please where can I find more information?
    :deadhorse:

    Btw the cyber truck weighs 10k how much is battery my guess is half.

    Don’t revert to your old ways.

    I know you’re capable of civil discussion, sometimes.

    The battery modules make up a large portion of the weight. You’re simply ignoring many safety systems in place due to your bias. I didn’t make any claims about the truck’s tow capacity.

    FWIW, electric semis exist.
     

    Bangswitch

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    Don’t revert to your old ways.

    I know you’re capable of civil discussion, sometimes.

    The battery modules make up a large portion of the weight. You’re simply ignoring many safety systems in place due to your bias. I didn’t make any claims about the truck’s tow capacity.

    FWIW, electric semis exist.

    For all the snarky stuff you say everyday you have the nerve to say something about that post. Come on bro be for real.

    You ask me to research 20 year old tech that is pretty well mainstream like you discovered a perpetual motion machine. Batteries are just gas tanks for electricity it doesn’t matter if it’s flooded, AGM, SLA or Ni-Cad the amount of energy needed to operate remains the same.
     

    AustinBR

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    For all the snarky stuff you say everyday you have the nerve to say something about that post. Come on bro be for real.

    You ask me to research 20 year old tech that is pretty well mainstream like you discovered a perpetual motion machine. Batteries are just gas tanks for electricity it doesn’t matter if it’s flooded, AGM, SLA or Ni-Cad the amount of energy needed to operate remains the same.

    One question I have...mostly playing devils advocate as I haven't studied this area too much, but from what I understand, batteries/electric engines are a lot more efficient than even the most efficient car engines.

    With that in mind, isn't a huge amount of the potential energy of gasoline lost during the process of burning it in engines?

    I'd think that igniting a 15 liter engine of gasoline would be worse than igniting a 15 liter battery, but I guess it really comes down to how much energy is stored in both and how quickly all of that energy would be released.

    From my limited understanding, Teslas are allegedly much safer than traditional cars.
     

    DAVE_M

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    For all the snarky stuff you say everyday you have the nerve to say something about that post. Come on bro be for real.

    You ask me to research 20 year old tech that is pretty well mainstream like you discovered a perpetual motion machine. Batteries are just gas tanks for electricity it doesn’t matter if it’s flooded, AGM, SLA or Ni-Cad the amount of energy needed to operate remains the same.

    For 20 year old tech, you would have to have a strong bias to believe Li-Ion batteries are more dangerous than gasoline.
     

    Bangswitch

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    For 20 year old tech, you would have to have a strong bias to believe Li-Ion batteries are more dangerous than gasoline.
    Electricity is electricity.
    I love lithium batteries and brushless motors but it’s the energy needed that is the problem.

    Im all for moving this discussion to a new thread but would like to bring my posts with me.
     

    AustinBR

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    Electricity is electricity.
    I love lithium batteries and brushless motors but it’s the energy needed that is the problem.

    Im all for moving this discussion to a new thread but would like to bring my posts with me.

    Ughhh that means I have to not be lazy and try to move them. Maybe after dinner lol
     

    DAVE_M

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    Electricity is electricity.
    I love lithium batteries and brushless motors but it’s the energy needed that is the problem.

    Im all for moving this discussion to a new thread but would like to bring my posts with me.

    Then you are also of the belief that your home is more dangerous than your car, correct?
     

    Bangswitch

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    Then you are also of the belief that your home is more dangerous than your car, correct?

    Did you ever look up how many KWh you used last month and compare it the the KWh used in my hypothetical or estimate a full range charging cycle for one of their published vehicles. When you realize the amount of KWh required to operate one and the massive current draw the charging station create to charge something that takes 10 hours in 30 minutes for you should realize why it’s impractical and how it’s potentially dangerous.

    Look I think they are cool and that kind speed speaks to me but without unobtainium an perpetual motion at best it’s a fun diversion for those willing to pony up the coin.
     
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    AustinBR

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    Did you ever look up how many KWh you used last month and compare it the the KWh used in my hypothetical or estimate a full range charging cycle for one of their published vehicles. When you realize the amount of KWh required to operate one and the massive current draw the charging station create to charge something that takes 10 hours in 30 minutes for you should realize why it’s impractical and how it’s potentially dangerous.

    Look I think they are cool and that kind speed speaks to me but with unobtainium an perpetual motion at best it’s a fun diversion for those willing to pony up the coin.

    If electricity is more efficient than gas and a Tesla has the same amount of potential energy (batteries to gas) as a normal car would have, could a Tesla not do the same thing that a gas motor could?

    Not trying to argue, I really don't know. I'd think that a very efficient set of motors could generate enough umph to rival a gas engine, while still being safe.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Did you ever look up how many KWh you used last month and compare it the the KWh used in my hypothetical or estimate a full range charging cycle for one of their published vehicles. When you realize the amount of KWh required to operate one and the massive current draw the charging station create to charge something that takes 10 hours in 30 minutes for you should realize why it’s impractical and how it’s potentially dangerous.

    Look I think they are cool and that kind speed speaks to me but with unobtainium an perpetual motion at best it’s a fun diversion for those willing to pony up the coin.

    Tesla has different batteries for different models, but 100kWh seems to be the new standard. Older cars had 60 kWh batteries. So I don’t see how the amount of kWh used in the home is relevant.
     

    AustinBR

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    Tesla has different batteries for different models, but 100kWh seems to be the new standard. Older cars had 60 kWh batteries. So I don’t see how the amount of kWh used in the home is relevant.

    I think his point is that the vehicle would need a 500kWh or so battery in order to tow at the standards discussed earlier.

    I guess my only question with that is, could more juice be picked up from a 100 kWh battery? If the engines are four times as efficient, could the current engine put out four times as much power, or be used four times as long?
     

    Bangswitch

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    If electricity is more efficient than gas and a Tesla has the same amount of potential energy (batteries to gas) as a normal car would have, could a Tesla not do the same thing that a gas motor could?

    Not trying to argue, I really don't know. I'd think that a very efficient set of motors could generate enough umph to rival a gas engine, while still being safe.

    The question isn’t could it do it more efficiently, they use diesel/electric locomotives for a reason. Hybrids when they came out procedures more MPGs. The biggest concern with electric is transferring the power from a source to the car unfortunately KWh from the grid compared to gas at the pump (which currently includes road tax your electricity doesn’t) is no cheaper. And with gas cheaper than it’s been in a decade it’s way cheap to burn Barney and Dino.
     

    Gus McCrae

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    Gasoline is pretty hard to beat.

    The technology with electric motors and batteries isn't there yet. If it was, you'd at least see a test vehicle out there.

    Electric motors can put out, but they need power.

    What else? Oh, burn a battery or gas? I don't want to burn a battery.... way more toxic than gas.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Has anyone here taken a ride in a Tesla? I did last year. The maxed out version at the time. A doctor I work with loves to show it off. But at the same time puts things into perspective. He didn’t buy it as a daily driver. I already understand that the internal combustion engine is a very inefficient design, electric motors are capable of spooling up to their potential way faster than the average gas engine (read massive torque here). The performance is astounding. But there are other electric vehicles and the only electric vehicles being discussed here are the balls out versions and somehow they’re being compared to daily driver gas powered vehicles. If you wanna compare a gas powered vehicle to the Tesla you’ll have to reach a little higher. Something way into the 6 figure price range (maybe 7?) that you’ll likely only get about 10-30k miles out of before its 10+ years old, caused you to go bankrupt or no longer viable. If you’re gonna compare electric cars to gas powered cars you might wanna research the true commuter and go with those stats.
    Btw, diesel electric. How do trains move all that weight ?
     
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    DAVE_M

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    The question isn’t could it do it more efficiently, they use diesel/electric locomotives for a reason. Hybrids when they came out procedures more MPGs. The biggest concern with electric is transferring the power from a source to the car unfortunately KWh from the grid compared to gas at the pump (which currently includes road tax your electricity doesn’t) is no cheaper. And with gas cheaper than it’s been in a decade it’s way cheap to burn Barney and Dino.

    If you go back to my original post, I specifically stated that making it affordable is the issue.

    The technology is there.

    Making it affordable is still years into the future.

    The rest of my comments were in regards to you assuming electric cars are more dangerous.
     

    Bangswitch

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    Forget my numbers these are Tesla’s numbers
    The model s takes 11.5kwh to go 34 miles compare that to a gallon of gas. This is the slow home charger and if it’s operating with no parasitic loss it’s drawing 48 amps. Your electric dryer draws less than 30Amps. Look at your energy bill.


    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Wall Connector[/FONT]
    Technical details
    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Charge Speed[/FONT]
    Max miles of range per hour of charge
    Circuit breaker
    (amps)
    Maximum output
    (amps)
    Power at 240 volts
    (kilowatt)
    Model S
    (mph)
    Model 3*
    (mph)
    Model X
    (mph)
    Model Y
    (mph)
    604811.5 kW34443042
    50409.6 kW29372536
    40327.7 kW23302029
    30245.7 kW17221421
    20163.8 kW1115814
    15122.8 kW711510
    [FONT=&amp]*Maximum charge rate for Model 3 Standard Range is 32A (7.7kW) - up to 30 miles of range per hour.[/FONT]
     

    DAVE_M

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    Gasoline is pretty hard to beat.

    The technology with electric motors and batteries isn't there yet. If it was, you'd at least see a test vehicle out there.

    Electric motors can put out, but they need power.

    What else? Oh, burn a battery or gas? I don't want to burn a battery.... way more toxic than gas.

    The technology has been around for a long time. Convincing people to pay for it is the issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Forget my numbers these are Tesla’s numbers
    The model s takes 11.5kwh to go 34 miles compare that to a gallon of gas. This is the slow home charger and if it’s operating with no parasitic loss it’s drawing 48 amps. Your electric dryer draws less than 30Amps. Look at your energy bill.


    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Wall Connector[/FONT]
    Technical details
    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Charge Speed[/FONT]
    Max miles of range per hour of charge
    Circuit breaker
    (amps)
    Maximum output
    (amps)
    Power at 240 volts
    (kilowatt)
    Model S
    (mph)
    Model 3*
    (mph)
    Model X
    (mph)
    Model Y
    (mph)
    604811.5 kW34443042
    50409.6 kW29372536
    40327.7 kW23302029
    30245.7 kW17221421
    20163.8 kW1115814
    15122.8 kW711510
    [FONT=&]*Maximum charge rate for Model 3 Standard Range is 32A (7.7kW) - up to 30 miles of range per hour.[/FONT]

    My energy bill is typically under $100/mo, so what’s your point?
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Forget my numbers these are Tesla’s numbers
    The model s takes 11.5kwh to go 34 miles compare that to a gallon of gas. This is the slow home charger and if it’s operating with no parasitic loss it’s drawing 48 amps. Your electric dryer draws less than 30Amps. Look at your energy bill.


    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Wall Connector[/FONT]
    Technical details
    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Charge Speed[/FONT]
    Max miles of range per hour of charge
    Circuit breaker
    (amps)
    Maximum output
    (amps)
    Power at 240 volts
    (kilowatt)
    Model S
    (mph)
    Model 3*
    (mph)
    Model X
    (mph)
    Model Y
    (mph)
    604811.5 kW34443042
    50409.6 kW29372536
    40327.7 kW23302029
    30245.7 kW17221421
    20163.8 kW1115814
    15122.8 kW711510
    [FONT=&]*Maximum charge rate for Model 3 Standard Range is 32A (7.7kW) - up to 30 miles of range per hour.[/FONT]
    A gallon of gas in a Honda Civic or a rat rod with a blown big block?
     

    Bangswitch

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    If you go back to my original post, I specifically stated that making it affordable is the issue.



    The rest of my comments were in regards to you assuming electric cars are more dangerous.

    And I added effective to your caveat because the transfer of energy back to the car to recharge it is not convenient for travel or in town delivery routes and varying other circumstances where gas is immediately available and this isn’t or takes forever to get you back on the road.

    The danger is real I would like to think they have designed these cars so that damage to the car would be highly unlikely to expose conductors but when you are talking high voltage it’s not like smelling a picture gas tank and it doesn’t require a spark to hurt you you just have to get too close you don’t even have to touch it.
     

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