Tesla / Energy Discussion

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  • Bangswitch

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    See my first post.

    If bang for your buck is a concern, Tesla isn’t the best option.

    Still not sure what any of this has to do with your belief that they are dangerous.




    Correct.

    It all revolves around high voltage and high current draw in a vehicle that could be mangled and have exposed conductors.
    Higher voltage lends itself to arc fault issues and higher amperage creates heat which helps create imperfections in insulation increasing risk of arc flash. When both are present arc flash or ground faults can be fatal. You combine that with an accident mangling a car and exposing conductors to a metal chassis it can be a disaster waiting to happen. You can smell gas you can see an exposed flame you can’t always see a ground fault or realize that you are about to be the bridge that closes a circuit.
     
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    DAVE_M

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    It all revolves around high voltage and high current draw in a vehicle that could be mangled and have exposed conductors.
    Higher voltage lends itself to arc fault issues and higher amperage creates heat which helps create imperfections in insulation increasing risk of arc flash. When both are present arc flash or ground faults can be fatal. You combine that with an accident mangling a car and exposing conductors to a metal chassis it can be a disaster waiting to happen. You can smell gas you can see an exposed flame you can’t always see a ground fault or realize that you are about to be the bridge that closes a circuit.

    I think you should look into the Tesla battery modules. They are not what you think they are.
     

    Bangswitch

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    I think you should look into the Tesla battery modules. They are not what you think they are.
    Do they store electricity or some magical energy source that isn’t deadly? Look I’m not stupid I’m well aware of modern safety features internal and external to batteries but the current required to operate the motors would be deadly and at high voltage pinholes are life changers/enders.

    It’s worth noting I understand the risk and would consider owning one if it didn’t have to be my primary or secondary mode of transportation. My point is no matter how much you want it to be so Tesla hasn’t figured out how to bend the laws of physics so the electricity used to fuel their vehicles is still significantly more dangerous than traditional sources.

    Im sure we all know proper battery removal in a normal vehicle starts with the negative lead but do you know why? Because if you start with the positive side first you could complete a circuit through the tool and/or yourself by contacting metal with either your body or the wrench. Now consider the voltage and amperage potential of even a Class 8 Diesel are like vape batteries compared to an all electric car
     

    aroundlsu

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    Well, right now during COVID really isn't a good example. But pre-virus, I probably get gas every three weeks unless I am making a road trip. I work from home for the most part and if I go places I often take an Uber as alcohol is often involved lol.

    Electric cars don't make sense for road trips with the current technology. The time to re-charge the battery is too high.

    For everyday driving, as long as you can charge it every night, you always wake up with a full battery at 100%, without ever needing to go get gas or top up.

    I've had a Tesla Model S for two years and have driven it cross country several times. I actually picked it up at the Tesla Fremont factory and drove it back to Baton Rouge. With the supercharger network the road trips are easily managed if you just do a little planning. I like to leave for a road trip about 9am. The first charge stop will be at lunch time. It will be done with charging by the time I finish lunch. Next will be a snack break around 4pm for another 30 minute charge. Then I'll either plan to check into a hotel with a charger around 8pm and charge overnight or I can stop and get dinner while charging and drive one more leg. But I always end at a hotel with a charger and plan charging around lunch or dinner breaks. The best part is the chargers are FREE. You can literally drive cross country unlimited in my Tesla completely free.

    People that have never owned one make a big deal about charging but it's a non issue.
     

    Magdump

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    A gallon cost the same regardless what you put it in. That’s not the question though. If the S has a range of 340 miles you will use 115KWh to charge it. Look at your power bill tell me how many KWh you used last month estimate how much you drive and tell me how much your power bill should increase. The tell me how much that gas cost you. Then tell us if worth it to you to have a vehicle that requires a ‘special fuel source’ that limits your travel to places that can refuel it.
    ?
    Just trying to figure out if there’s a direction you’re heading in. There’s a huge difference in what you’ll get from a gallon of gas depending on what you’re burning it in. There’s also a huge difference in the type of vehicles you’re comparing, besides the obvious power plant. The cost of the ‘fill up’ is less for electric. There are adaptations an owner would have to make as well as concessions that would have to be made with various vehicles. M series BMW’s are great road cars, but no good off road. An electric car wouldn’t be my first choice to go cross country. I can’t see buying a type S Tesla as a primary vehicle. Is it cost comparison your looking for or just pros and cons?
     

    Gus McCrae

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    I looked a little at buying an electric car as I was in crummy commute. I recently switched jobs and don't drive my truck much anymore.

    Between that and how I use my vehicle, and electric car just doesn't fit the bill.
     

    aroundlsu

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    What’s your KWh for last month?

    My Tesla Model S is free to charge for the life of the vehicle at any Tesla Supercharger worldwide, Tesla Destination Charger worldwide, or any public charging station in Louisiana (all Louisiana charging stations are free). On top of that, I rent a condo and my electric bill is a flat rate every month no matter how much power I use to charge it at home. My KWh costs for this car are literally zero.
     

    AustinBR

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    My Tesla Model S is free to charge for the life of the vehicle at any Tesla Supercharger worldwide, Tesla Destination Charger worldwide, or any public charging station in Louisiana (all Louisiana charging stations are free). On top of that, I rent a condo and my electric bill is a flat rate every month no matter how much power I use to charge it at home. My KWh costs for this car are literally zero.

    Aren't new Teslas not grandfathered in to the free power thing? From my understanding that's not even an option you can purchase at this point.
     

    aroundlsu

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    Aren't new Teslas not grandfathered in to the free power thing? From my understanding that's not even an option you can purchase at this point.

    Any Tesla made before a certain cutoff time gets the free charging for life even after resale. I'm not sure the exact time but I think it's somewhere in 2018. Mine qualifies not only for the free charging but also free unlimited LTE internet in the car for the life of the car. New car owners do pay a fee at the superchargers but they occasionally run promos offering free supercharging again. The cars have changed very little since 2015 (almost all the updates are over the air with software and available to all owners) so it's worth it to just get one made before the cut off time if free charging is important to you.
     
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    Bangswitch

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    Just trying to figure out if there’s a direction you’re heading in. There’s a huge difference in what you’ll get from a gallon of gas depending on what you’re burning it in. There’s also a huge difference in the type of vehicles you’re comparing, besides the obvious power plant. The cost of the ‘fill up’ is less for electric. There are adaptations an owner would have to make as well as concessions that would have to be made with various vehicles. M series BMW’s are great road cars, but no good off road. An electric car wouldn’t be my first choice to go cross country. I can’t see buying a type S Tesla as a primary vehicle. Is it cost comparison your looking for or just pros and cons?

    Im saying they are really slick cars but as a primary or secondary vehicle it’s not for me. The charging requirements and high voltage on board are drawbacks in my opinion. It works fine for some folks and that’s great but ignoring those drawbacks doesn’t make them irrelevant.
     

    Bangswitch

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    I've had a Tesla Model S for two years and have driven it cross country several times. I actually picked it up at the Tesla Fremont factory and drove it back to Baton Rouge. With the supercharger network the road trips are easily managed if you just do a little planning. I like to leave for a road trip about 9am. The first charge stop will be at lunch time. It will be done with charging by the time I finish lunch. Next will be a snack break around 4pm for another 30 minute charge. Then I'll either plan to check into a hotel with a charger around 8pm and charge overnight or I can stop and get dinner while charging and drive one more leg. But I always end at a hotel with a charger and plan charging around lunch or dinner breaks. The best part is the chargers are FREE. You can literally drive cross country unlimited in my Tesla completely free.

    People that have never owned one make a big deal about charging but it's a non issue.

    If it works for you great. I know there are more and more supercharge stations coming on line all the time, and it’s slick you don’t pay, but who pays thats a lot of juice and the ability to do it so rapidly is demanding on the grid and that usually cost more per KWh because of the high demand.
     
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    Bangswitch

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    My Tesla Model S is free to charge for the life of the vehicle at any Tesla Supercharger worldwide, Tesla Destination Charger worldwide, or any public charging station in Louisiana (all Louisiana charging stations are free). On top of that, I rent a condo and my electric bill is a flat rate every month no matter how much power I use to charge it at home. My KWh costs for this car are literally zero.

    That is pretty cool.
     

    Bangswitch

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    It’s also worth noting charging at a rate of 230 KWh (that’s the math for 11.5KW for 10 hours compressed into 30 minutes) is insanely high these stations if not properly protected and maintained could become a significant hazard to someone if there’s a pin prick in the jacket on the charge cable. Or if a drunk driver runs one over. I’m sure there are safety features if something like that occurs, but maintenance or lack of is probably the bigger worry.
     

    aroundlsu

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    If it works for you great. I know there are more and more supercharge stations coming on line all the time, and it’s slick you don’t pay, but who pays thats a lot of juice and the ability to do it so rapidly is demanding on the grid and that usually cost more per KWh because of the high demand.

    The "Destination Chargers" are paid for by whatever local business installed them. They are usually at hotels, restaurants, and other places a Tesla driver on the road would want to visit. They appear on the navigation system so if I'm on a road trip it's easy to find a hotel with a charger to stop overnight. They are usually places like Hampton Inns and other hotels below the $100/night range.

    The "Superchargers" are the DC fast chargers installed and paid for by Tesla. These also appear in the navigation system of course and the car will automatically route you to one if needed.

    Local public chargers are usually paid for by government grants and other entities. The downtown Baton Rouge public chargers are paid for by a grant from Entergy. I used to use these to charge every night when I lived downtown.
     

    aroundlsu

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    It’s also worth noting charging at a rate of 230 KWh (that’s the math for 11.5KW for 10 hours compressed into 30 minutes) is insanely high these stations if not properly protected and maintained could become a significant hazard to someone if there’s a pin prick in the jacket on the charge cable. Or if a drunk driver runs one over. I’m sure there are safety features if something like that occurs, but maintenance or lack of is probably the bigger worry.

    You're right the DC fast chargers are pumping a lot of power through that cable. But I'm not aware of any accident that has ever happened with a DC fast charger. They don't start sending power until the car confirms it's ready and safe to do so. I've actually tried to charge at a DC charger cable that got ran over (the Rouses in New Orleans has a DC charger that is always getting ran over because of the way the cable tends to fall into the parking space). If the cable has a fault it will fail the initial insulation test and not send power. You can see it do the cable test on the screen at the one at Rouses.
     

    Bangswitch

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    The "Destination Chargers" are paid for by whatever local business installed them. They are usually at hotels, restaurants, and other places a Tesla driver on the road would want to visit. They appear on the navigation system so if I'm on a road trip it's easy to find a hotel with a charger to stop overnight. They are usually places like Hampton Inns and other hotels below the $100/night range.

    The "Superchargers" are the DC fast chargers installed and paid for by Tesla. These also appear in the navigation system of course and the car will automatically route you to one if needed.

    Local public chargers are usually paid for by government grants and other entities. The downtown Baton Rouge public chargers are paid for by a grant from Entergy. I used to use these to charge every night when I lived downtown.

    Im assuming all the chargers you’ve handled are pretty new and/or well cared for. Do you have any safety concerns at this time with the charging cables or stations themselves?
     

    Bangswitch

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    You're right the DC fast chargers are pumping a lot of power through that cable. But I'm not aware of any accident that has ever happened with a DC fast charger. They don't start sending power until the car confirms it's ready and safe to do so. I've actually tried to charge at a DC charger cable that got ran over (the Rouses in New Orleans has a DC charger that is always getting ran over because of the way the cable tends to fall into the parking space). If the cable has a fault it will fail the initial insulation test and not send power. You can see it do the cable test on the screen at the one at Rouses.

    I would assume the testing cycle is an attempt to create a low amperage arc and using some sort of arc fault detection if no arc occurs it proceeds to charging. That definitely reduces the risk of an arc flash occurring.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You're right the DC fast chargers are pumping a lot of power through that cable. But I'm not aware of any accident that has ever happened with a DC fast charger. They don't start sending power until the car confirms it's ready and safe to do so. I've actually tried to charge at a DC charger cable that got ran over (the Rouses in New Orleans has a DC charger that is always getting ran over because of the way the cable tends to fall into the parking space). If the cable has a fault it will fail the initial insulation test and not send power. You can see it do the cable test on the screen at the one at Rouses.

    I would assume the testing cycle is an attempt to create a low amperage arc and using some sort of arc fault detection if no arc occurs it proceeds to charging. That definitely reduces the risk of an arc flash occurring.
     

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