Tesla / Energy Discussion

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  • MOTOR51

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    A lot of times being "freaking nuts" turns into "visionary" :)

    I'm a fan of Musk and of Teslas and SpaceX. We don't have too many people who are willing to stand up for what they believe in and he definitely is one of those. His handling of the SEC and even of the COVID lockdown were both bold and hilarious.

    I don't own a Tesla, but whenever battery technology improves I'd certainly consider one.

    The new Tesla roadster will do 0-60 in 1.9sec and tops out at 250mph. Let that sink in


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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    jdindadell

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    If it wasn't for an apparent lack of parts availability to the regular joe, I would own a tesla. They are the only company bother to do anything meaningful in the electric car market.

    I turned on the live feed in time to hear the cancellation. I will be watching on saturday. I applaud spacex for all that they do, making space accessible again, and having the sense to make the info and experience more available to the public.

    Musk is just a funny guy. When he said he was "tripping balls" after the 1st falcon heavy launch, I had a good laugh. I can't stand the old guard, starched shirt, blow hard that pretended to be better than everyone else. Nice to have the company front man appear to be a person, even if he is a bit strange. At least he knows what he is talking about, and has a genuine desire to do more than just get rich.
     

    AustinBR

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    The new Tesla roadster will do 0-60 in 1.9sec and tops out at 250mph. Let that sink in


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Yeah, it's insane. Even their new 'truck' outruns most modern sports cars...and it can tow over 10k.
     

    Bangswitch

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    Yeah, it's insane. Even their new 'truck' outruns most modern sports cars...and it can tow over 10k.

    Yes but unless he has invented perpetual energy it’s stop will be frequent or lengthy. I don’t want to be a curmudgeon on this one but unless it’s powered by unicorn breastmilk it’s near impossible it can do what they claim and the way they stacked the deck on the Fake tug-o-war they did should tell you something. I’m not opposed to battery powered cars per se but I use battery banks at camp and charging speed and demand are huge limitations.

    The electricity required to power a monster that can tow 14,000lbs and weight 10,000lb for 500 miles is far more dangerous than an internal combustion engine.

    But let’s say you can comfortably and safely move 24,000lbs with 400HP (have fun).

    But for kicks and giggles

    400HPh = 298KWh (this is just a conversion)
    If you travel 500miles at 60mph that’s 8.33hours. So...
    298KWh x 8.33 = 2,483.33KWh

    Now I’m a bean counter not an electrical engineer, but as mentioned I dabble in understanding electrical usage and requirements. And I’m assuming an average of 400HP demand on the motor.

    Now the audience participation portion of the show, do me a favor and grab your most recent power bill, and report back your KWH usage and the price.

    Now all that said I want them to figure out how to do it effectively and affordably because electric motors are friggin sweet and blisteringly fast, but I’m not counting on it.


    But I like this guy because someone needs to do the things that people say can’t be done.
     
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    shrxfn

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    They are still doing tons of research on battery technology to get better, smaller and more energy dense. But it is people like Elon who constantly push the boundaries that make these huge gains in technology.
     

    AustinBR

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    Yes but unless he has invented perpetual energy it’s stop will be frequent or lengthy. I don’t want to be a curmudgeon on this one but unless it’s powered by unicorn breastmilk it’s near impossible it can do what they claim and the way they stacked the deck on the Fake tug-o-war they did should tell you something. I’m not opposed to battery powered cars per se but I use battery banks at camp and charging speed and demand are huge limitations.

    The electricity required to power a monster that can tow 14,000lbs and weight 10,000lb for 500 miles is far more dangerous than an internal combustion engine.

    But let’s say you can comfortably and safely move 24,000lbs with 400HP (have fun).

    But for kicks and giggles

    400HPh = 298KWh (this is just a conversion)
    If you travel 500miles at 60mph that’s 8.33hours. So...
    298KWh x 8.33 = 2,483.33KWh

    Now I’m a bean counter not an electrical engineer, but as mentioned I dabble in understanding electrical usage and requirements. And I’m assuming an average of 400HP demand on the motor.

    Now the audience participation portion of the show, do me a favor and grab your most recent power bill, and report back your KWH usage and the price.

    Now all that said I want them to figure out how to do it effectively and affordably because electric motors are friggin sweet and blisteringly fast, but I’m not counting on it.


    But I like this guy because someone needs to do the things that people say can’t be done.

    I agree that the claims do seem a bit high and your math seems to check out...but I can't really comment further. The tech sounds cool, but it's definitely not my area of expertise at all.

    It'll be cool to see what happens.
     

    Bangswitch

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    They are still doing tons of research on battery technology to get better, smaller and more energy dense. But it is people like Elon who constantly push the boundaries that make these huge gains in technology.

    Yeah there was a time a cordless drill had no power and no battery life. Now I can hang a small 12v drill on my hip and if last for hours and out preform the older much heavier.
     

    Bangswitch

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    I agree that the claims do seem a bit high and your math seems to check out...but I can't really comment further. The tech sounds cool, but it's definitely not my area of expertise at all.

    It'll be cool to see what happens.

    Yeah. A good reference point for electricity. It takes 11 100w solar panels working 100% efficiency with no loss inverting it to 110vac to operate a microwave.

    Im going to link their wall connector graph shortly.
     
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    Bangswitch

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    This is their home charger not a charging station. The stations charge at much higher amperage. Note the model 3 (322 mile range) needs 10 hours minimum to go from 0 to 322 mile range.



    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Wall Connector[/FONT]
    Technical details
    [FONT=var(--tds-font-combined--bold) !important]Charge Speed[/FONT]
    Max miles of range per hour of charge
    Circuit breaker
    (amps)
    Maximum output
    (amps)
    Power at 240 volts
    (kilowatt)
    Model S
    (mph)
    Model 3*
    (mph)
    Model X
    (mph)
    Model Y
    (mph)
    604811.5 kW34443042
    50409.6 kW29372536
    40327.7 kW23302029
    30245.7 kW17221421
    20163.8 kW1115814
    15122.8 kW711510
    [FONT=&quot]*Maximum charge rate for Model 3 Standard Range is 32A (7.7kW) - up to 30 miles of range per hour.



    [/FONT]
     

    Bangswitch

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    Now this is where they get me on the hook for sure.

    https://www.tesla.com/solarroof/design


    I just had my roof redone. I paid 10k for 6000 sq/ft (take into account pitch I swear my house isn't anything close to 6,000sq/ft of floor space). None the less thats a good deal for a roof. At just over 3 times the cost of a roof with a singular purpose I could have one that provides me with solar energy. If I had a solar roof that provides 2.65 watts/sqft and it averaged 50% efficient and I got an average of 8 of sun a day, I would produce 63.6KWh every day.
     

    Bangswitch

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    I don't think you understand the power of electric motors.

    As I said, the technology is there, but making it affordable is an issue.


    It's not the output that is the problem but the input requirements. Ability to carry the power source and recharge it in an efficient time frame. They Boast 30 minutes to use a charge station for a car the size that would average 30mpg on gasoline. Does that mean we should expect 2.5 hours to recharge something that moves 24,000lbs? Also something that can be charged that rapidly can also discharge that rapidly if damaged in say an auto accident. You are talking about driving around a miniature power substation.
     

    DAVE_M

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    It's not the output that is the problem but the input requirements. Ability to carry the power source and recharge it in an efficient time frame. They Boast 30 minutes to use a charge station for a car the size that would average 30mpg on gasoline. Does that mean we should expect 2.5 hours to recharge something that moves 24,000lbs? Also something that can be charged that rapidly can also discharge that rapidly if damaged in say an auto accident. You are talking about driving around a miniature power substation.

    Are you concerned with the charge time/discharge rate or are you talking about vehicle accidents?

    You seem to be bouncing around topics.
     

    Bangswitch

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    Are you concerned with the charge time/discharge rate or are you talking about vehicle accidents?

    You seem to be bouncing around topics.

    I'm concerned with the requirements to operate on electricity being time consuming, expensive and dangerous. It was in my first post, but thanks for playing.


    Yes but unless he has invented perpetual energy it’s stop will be frequent or lengthy. I don’t want to be a curmudgeon on this one but unless it’s powered by unicorn breastmilk it’s near impossible it can do what they claim and the way they stacked the deck on the Fake tug-o-war they did should tell you something. I’m not opposed to battery powered cars per se but I use battery banks at camp and charging speed and demand are huge limitations.

    The electricity required to power a monster that can tow 14,000lbs and weight 10,000lb for 500 miles is far more dangerous than an internal combustion engine.

    But let’s say you can comfortably and safely move 24,000lbs with 400HP (have fun).

    But for kicks and giggles

    400HPh = 298KWh (this is just a conversion)
    If you travel 500miles at 60mph that’s 8.33hours. So...
    298KWh x 8.33 = 2,483.33KWh

    Now I’m a bean counter not an electrical engineer, but as mentioned I dabble in understanding electrical usage and requirements. And I’m assuming an average of 400HP demand on the motor.

    Now the audience participation portion of the show, do me a favor and grab your most recent power bill, and report back your KWH usage and the price.

    Now all that said I want them to figure out how to do it effectively and affordably because electric motors are friggin sweet and blisteringly fast, but I’m not counting on it.


    But I like this guy because someone needs to do the things that people say can’t be done.
     
    Last edited:

    Bangswitch

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    If you compare my estimate of power consumption to average household usage each month you should be able to understand where my concerns come from. A 400HP motor needs 298KW.
    Full Rankings


    [FONT=&amp]
    State
    # of CustomersAverage Monthly Usage (kWh)Usage RankingAverage Price (cents/kWh)Price RankingAverage Monthly Bill (Dollars) Bill Ranking
    Louisiana2,059,6991,24019.3451115.79
    21​
    Tennessee
    2,812,2871,238210.4145128.897
    Alabama2,200,5741,214311.9926145.55
    2​
    Mississippi1,278,6161,203410.4744125.91
    12​
    Texas
    10,521,7321,156510.9938127.109
    South Carolina2,209,7831,155612.6519146.09
    1​
    Georgia
    4,240,4211,138711.5029130.876
    Florida9,149,2141,123810.9839123.37
    14​
    Kentucky
    1,957,1881,121910.4943117.6517
    Virginia3,362,9851,1201011.3633127.14
    8​
    West Virginia
    860,3751,1021111.4431126.1011
    North Carolina4,423,5321,1011211.0336121.44
    15​
    Oklahoma
    1,736,8191,0931310.2046111.4925
    Arkansas1,368,8671,083149.9249107.44
    30​
    North Dakota
    377,7391,0461510.1647106.2831
    Missouri2,751,4601,0411611.2134116.63
    20​
    Arizona
    2,725,5101,0301712.1523125.1913
    Maryland2,288,3019951814.2313141.53
    4​
    South Dakota
    392,1879811911.4730112.5324
    Indiana2,821,5469752011.7928114.96
    22​
    Nebraska834,0389732110.8441105.47
    33​
    Washington
    2,985,799955229.485090.5646
    Idaho714,365953239.954894.90
    43​
    Delaware
    419,2349472413.4216127.0310
    Nevada1,143,6679252511.4132105.48
    32​
    Oregon
    1,706,6229072610.664296.7139
    Kansas1,252,8468992713.0617117.34
    18​
    Ohio
    4,911,5978912812.4721111.1526
    Iowa1,358,9028642911.9427103.17
    35​
    Wyoming
    269,6478503011.133594.6644
    Pennsylvania5,335,5558413113.8615116.67
    19​
    Montana
    497,1708133210.944088.9547
    D.C.259,3928043312.292298.79
    37​
    Minnesota
    2,378,6817643412.671896.7938
    Utah1,041,8237503511.023782.57
    50​
    Illinois
    5,231,5417333612.542091.8345
    Connecticut1,486,7417113720.013142.19
    3​
    Colorado
    2,260,0986943812.072483.8549
    New Jersey3,510,1416913915.7211108.58
    29​
    Wisconsin
    2,662,2846834014.071496.0840
    Michigan4,311,0086684115.2212101.64
    36​
    New Mexico
    876,9216314212.032575.9651
    New Hampshire612,7166044318.386110.95
    27​
    Massachusetts
    2,740,8655994419.004113.7723
    New York7,118,9015954517.587104.58
    34​
    Alaska
    283,2605904620.302119.8416
    Rhode Island438,5075864718.625109.02
    28​
    Vermont
    312,2395494817.37995.3141
    California
    13,445,1335474917.39895.20
    42​
    Maine699,3215465015.831086.48
    48​
    Hawaii430,9415055127.471138.73
    5​
    [/FONT]
     

    DAVE_M

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    I'm concerned with the requirements to operate on electricity being time consuming, expensive and dangerous. It was in my first post, but thanks for playing.

    It is relatively time consuming compared to filling a gas tank at a pump, but not really time consuming when you consider the car charges while you sleep at your home and you don’t have to charge up during the day unless you are driving a long distance.

    It’s no more dangerous than a tank full of fuel.

    Thanks for playing too?
     

    Bangswitch

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    It is relatively time consuming compared to filling a gas tank at a pump, but not really time consuming when you consider the car charges while you sleep at your home and you don’t have to charge up during the day unless you are driving a long distance.

    It’s no more dangerous than a tank full of fuel.

    Thanks for playing too?

    Yes it is infinitely. Liquid gasoline is relatively stable.
     
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