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  • Gus McCrae

    No sir, I ain't.
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   0
    Feb 25, 2009
    8,370
    38
    Colorado
    So, if the police are called out and say that you are being detained because (entire crime here) and you say, No officer, FU, I'm NOT going to comply and ensue a fight with the officer and 3 other LEO's.....and you die, well too bad for you. It isn't like the LEO pulled his duty weapon and put 2 to the chest and 1 to the head. There was a scuffle with this guy because he wouldn't comply. To me whatever happens after non-compliance is the fault of the perp IF it wasn't intentional lethal force.

    Based on the video. The police ****ed up. When it was time to de-escalate and reassess what was going on, they didn't. It resulted in the death. It wasn't like he was actively fighting in the last 6-8 minutes of his life.

    I support LEO. They got a really tough job. Still doesn't mean someone gets a pass when they **** up and it results in death.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    9,396
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    His mistake was talking ****. He created a no win situation. The cops could have left him to talk **** from his porch but they opened their mouths and talked **** back. They could have easily gave him the ‘have a nice day sir’ (which everyone knows in the proper tone and context means go f$$$ yourself you civilian a$$hole) and continued on with their day. But once they commanded him (constitutional or not I’m not touching it) to go into his house they really didn’t have a choice but to make him or arrest him.

    Just the $.02 from a civilian a$$hole.
    2 things wrong with that but I’m not even asking you to take my word for it.

    1) Professionalism. They don’t just give anyone a gun or a badge and a gun and expect them to do any kind of law enforcement. They meet criteria, they are trained. They are Trained professionals, no? Part of being a professional is following laws and abiding by a person’s rights, like it or not. Any LEO or keeper of the peace takes an oath that covers all that. Anyone on that SWAT team or whoever they profess to be
    does not have the ability to contain themselves any better than that under those circumstances, for whatever reason, is probably not going to hold their **** under any kind of stress. My point is, due to not executing their duty in a professional manner whatsoever and straying from training and policy, they completely strayed from their prescribed duty and created a situation that did not need to be and could have gone a lot worse. But feel free to blame an innocent that was breaking zero laws.
    Part of your statement kinda says as much about how they created the situation (or escalated if you prefer) where you say once they commanded him to go in his house, that had no choice but to make him or arrest him. Unlawful orders did that.

    2) Unlawful orders. The commands to go inside didn’t mean anymore than the guy telling them they were using excessive force on a juvenile. Neither these folks on their porch nor the ones on the other porch were breaking any laws and to attempt to force them into their home is actually against the law.

    Ordinarily I would believe that anyone who thinks it’s ok for any peace keeper or LAW ENFORCEMENT officer to operate against the Constitutional laws of this country, our Bill of Rights, their oath to protect and follow same as well as their department’s policies doesn’t care about their own rights or anyone else’s. I don’t see how you can believe in only the parts of those laws that pertain to your interest and profess to be in any way patriotic or to support the founding principles of this country, but I’m sure it’s not like that with you. I can’t imagine you visiting this site if that were true about you.
    Lastly, I gotta say this somehow without making you feel insulted so I’m gonna apologize first. I’m sorry for saying this, but if I saw your post as a comment from that video, I’d immediately think left wing socialist/Marxist liberal. No way I’d believe that was you even if the screen name was the same.
     
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    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    Chicago mayor - don’t take matters in your own hands. Call the cops and wait.

    https://youtu.be/PtYDQ1dQhno

    this-is-fine.0.jpg
     
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    Bosco

    We are the hammer
    Rating - 100%
    56   0   0
    Sep 4, 2009
    2,246
    38
    Covington
    Walton & Johnson have been saying this for years. Comply... The New Drug to keep you safe.

    Just saying to "comply" is easy when it's not something you care about. If the police were marching down the street taking away law abiding citizen's guns would you comply?

    I swear a lot of the people in this thread would be singing completely different tunes if the police were reacting this way to the stay at home protesters. But since they're targeting people on the left who are protesting the systematic abuse of black people everyone's happy to jump on the bandwagon of "serves them all right".
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    9,396
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    If what we have seen is the totality of the circumstances, then I agree. But we haven't, and because of that I'm not going to pass judgment on that particular situation.

    This is a lose-lose situation. I support the protestors' right to protest 100%, but when it escalates to violence and rioting and mob-like behavior, it puts the police (and the national guard, where they've been called out) in a terrible situation. Protestors that taunt the police and deliberately try to provoke a response are like putting a single round in a revolver, spinning the cylinder, and playing chicken with the trigger.

    I have absolutely no plans to be anywhere near this. That is the best thing I can do for my safety, and the safety of my family.

    Mike
    Are you suggesting those folks on the porch threatened or taunted the convoy?
    I’m pretty sure they weren’t protesting anything from their home. Maybe they had some signs up stating their protests? Which would still be completely lawful. Maybe they raised a weapon or flipped them off or something? Or gave them the stink eye? I bet they must have provoked them in some way.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
    Rating - 100%
    163   0   0
    Dec 31, 2013
    9,396
    113
    Hammond, Louisiana
    Just saying to "comply" is easy when it's not something you care about. If the police were marching down the street taking away law abiding citizen's guns would you comply?

    I swear a lot of the people in this thread would be singing completely different tunes if the police were reacting this way to the stay at home protesters. But since they're targeting people on the left who are protesting the systematic abuse of black people everyone's happy to jump on the bandwagon of "serves them all right".
    Hell yeah and Amen.
     

    Trailboss

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Apr 2, 2013
    389
    28
    Norwood LA
    Just saying to "comply" is easy when it's not something you care about. If the police were marching down the street taking away law abiding citizen's guns would you comply? ...

    I certainly wouldn't violently oppose them, they can have all they find. My attorney and I would love to put several millions into our retirement accounts. The courts are where your rights are protected, and justice dealt, not the streets.

    When the courts fail to protect your Constitutional rights, the legislatures fail to enact laws to preserve your rights and the executive branch (police) fail to recognize your rights, our government is broken, and the constitution is voided. Time to move elsewhere or get another government. Right now, our government is fine (with occasional wobbles), the police won't confiscate our guns en mass, and people flock to this country in the millions because of our protected rights and freedoms.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    2 things wrong with that but I’m not even asking you to take my word for it.

    1) Professionalism. They don’t just give anyone a gun or a badge and a gun and expect them to do any kind of law enforcement. They meet criteria, they are trained. They are Trained professionals, no? Part of being a professional is following laws and abiding by a person’s rights, like it or not. Any LEO or keeper of the peace takes an oath that covers all that. Anyone on that SWAT team or whoever they profess to be
    does not have the ability to contain themselves any better than that under those circumstances, for whatever reason, is probably not going to hold their **** under any kind of stress. My point is, due to not executing their duty in a professional manner whatsoever and straying from training and policy, they completely strayed from their prescribed duty and created a situation that did not need to be and could have gone a lot worse. But feel free to blame an innocent that was breaking zero laws.
    Part of your statement kinda says as much about how they created the situation (or escalated if you prefer) where you say once they commanded him to go in his house, that had no choice but to make him or arrest him. Unlawful orders did that.

    2) Unlawful orders. The commands to go inside didn’t mean anymore than the guy telling them they were using excessive force on a juvenile. Neither these folks on their porch nor the ones on the other porch were breaking any laws and to attempt to force them into their home is actually against the law.

    Ordinarily I would believe that anyone who thinks it’s ok for any peace keeper or LAW ENFORCEMENT officer to operate against the Constitutional laws of this country, our Bill of Rights, their oath to protect and follow same as well as their department’s policies doesn’t care about their own rights or anyone else’s. I don’t see how you can believe in only the parts of those laws that pertain to your interest and profess to be in any way patriotic or to support the founding principles of this country, but I’m sure it’s not like that with you. I can’t imagine you visiting this site if that were true about you.
    Lastly, I gotta say this somehow without making you feel insulted so I’m gonna apologize first. I’m sorry for saying this, but if I saw your post as a comment from that video, I’d immediately think left wing socialist/Marxist liberal. No way I’d believe that was you even if the screen name was the same.

    That was my point he had nothing to gain from talking **** to the police. And the police had nothing to gain from ordering him into his house. I believe if they had properly assessed the situation they would have gave him the ‘go F**+ yourself’ and continued to focus on the task at hand.

    The cameraman/commentator had the opportunity to de-escalate the situation by obeying the potentially (still not going there) unlawful order and taking it up with the police chief/sheriff, mayor, attorney, etc. instead of on his from porch with a bunch of meat-eaters.
     

    kcinnick

    Training Ferrous Metal
    Rating - 100%
    28   0   0
    Dec 24, 2008
    4,723
    38
    Baton Rouge
    They’re employees of the government. If you take my money and don’t supply me with a holster, are leather craftsmen responsible, or are you responsible?

    And why are you inserting points that aren’t there? I’ve never claimed that there wasn’t more than one bad actor involved or that there aren’t more bad actors out there. The point is, the actions of individuals who are evil, doesn’t make the entire system evil. It’s pretty straight forward, if you didn’t have such a raging erection to ferret out imagined ********, it wouldn’t have flown right over your head.

    So how are you not part of the government if you take money to enforce all of the laws of the government? I do not believe all cops are bad people. I do believe the system is broken, there are to many unjust laws, to many victimless crimes. All to often cops get treated differently than regular citizens when they commit crime, they are given "blue privilege" (not my term, but I don't have a better one) after their crimes.
     

    Jack

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    40   0   0
    Dec 9, 2010
    8,602
    63
    Covington
    I like how you chopped out the center series of questions that underline how you can be a part of a group or an employee of somewhere and your actions aren’t attributed to the group. Also like how you avoided any discussion of you inserting points you simply pulled from the ether in an attempt to tear up a straw man that doesn’t exist. Good stuff.
     

    Bosco

    We are the hammer
    Rating - 100%
    56   0   0
    Sep 4, 2009
    2,246
    38
    Covington
    I certainly wouldn't violently oppose them, they can have all they find. My attorney and I would love to put several millions into our retirement accounts. The courts are where your rights are protected, and justice dealt, not the streets.

    When the courts fail to protect your Constitutional rights, the legislatures fail to enact laws to preserve your rights and the executive branch (police) fail to recognize your rights, our government is broken, and the constitution is voided. Time to move elsewhere or get another government. Right now, our government is fine (with occasional wobbles), the police won't confiscate our guns en mass, and people flock to this country in the millions because of our protected rights and freedoms.

    There's plenty of footage showing the police officers attacking peaceful protesters exercising their protected first amendment right.

    The people on their front porch weren't violently opposing anything, they were on their own property where they have every right to be. It doesn't matter what they were wearing or what they said, they were doing nothing illegal. There was no reason for the police to fire anything at them.

    Just like there was no reason for police to aim their weapons at people in their homes watching from their windows and fire at them https://mobile.twitter.com/Sarah_Mojarad/status/1266633046591078400?s=09

    There was no reason for them to steal/destroy goods of peaceful protesters https://peertube.live/videos/watch/8cc0aa6b-e020-463f-991a-90ef92fbed90

    There was no reason to shove down an elderly man https://www.abc4.com/news/salt-lake...d-in-protest-gear-pushing-down-man-with-cane/

    I guess this car was acting violent and deserved its windows smashed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgJ56mj0yAc

    And this guy who was just walking minding his own business was acting violent https://twitter.com/LasVegasLocally/status/1267210841595604992?s=20

    Man this senator must have really deserved to be pepper sprayed http://bronx.news12.com/story/42192...pepper-sprayed-handcuffed-at-barclays-protest

    I can continue to post video after video of peaceful people being targeted by police but I don't think you'll watch any of them. To most people here, the peaceful ones should be treated the same way as the violent ones because their freedom of speech isn't as important as people on the right's freedom of speech.
     

    krotsman

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    104   0   0
    Aug 2, 2012
    1,365
    113
    Baton Rouge
    To most people here, the peaceful ones should be treated the same way as the violent ones because their freedom of speech isn't as important as people on the right's freedom of speech.

    I think it's pretty clear, from numerous previous posts, that most people here support, or are a least not offended, by the peaceful protests. Perhaps you should just state your own opinions without trying to stereotype others on this forum.
     

    Bosco

    We are the hammer
    Rating - 100%
    56   0   0
    Sep 4, 2009
    2,246
    38
    Covington
    I think it's pretty clear, from numerous previous posts, that most people here support, or are a least not offended, by the peaceful protests. Perhaps you should just state your own opinions without trying to stereotype others on this forum.

    I think you should go back and read people's responses to the video of the folks who were standing on their own porch and shot at by officers.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    I think you should go back and read people's responses to the video of the folks who were standing on their own porch and shot at by officers.

    You mean my response?

    If those people went in their house for 2 minutes while the police passed by, none of that would have happened.

    If that’s the hill they want to die on, so be it.
     

    Bosco

    We are the hammer
    Rating - 100%
    56   0   0
    Sep 4, 2009
    2,246
    38
    Covington
    You mean my response?

    If those people went in their house for 2 minutes while the police passed by, none of that would have happened.

    If that’s the hill they want to die on, so be it.

    Not just yours, others as well. Maybe I'm misreading, but I translated the below responses to the video of the people shot at on their porch as "justice served".

    Should they have gone inside? Sure, I know I would have. Did they deserve to be shot at ? No they didn't. You can read the story behind the video here https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...-police-during-george-floyd-protests/12310592

    They weren't protesters. They were not challenging the police or "talking ****". They were outside their home to protect it from looters. They were doing nothing wrong and were shot at which could have caused permanent damage like the reporter who lost an eye.

    "There had been several evenings of protests, of unrest in our city, and we had realised, along with many residents of our neighbourhood, that the best way to actually protect our buildings, to protect our local businesses, was to be a visible presence," she said."[So] having lights on, being on our front porch. So that's why we were there."She said that on that night they had seen protesters running down their street as police tried to round them up. "We saw that the police started 'kettling' the block, or cordoning off the two streets on the two ends of our block, and passing through [were] dozens upon dozens of primarily police, also accompanied by National Guard and armoured vehicles," she said

    I get that there's a lot of tension and a lot of bad people rioting/looting but there are a lot of good people affected by this too. Trying to lump them all together as being bad is no different than people lumping all cops together as being bad.


    EDIT: Quotes removed because I think I was confused on what video people were responding to. I didn't see the 2nd video of someone on their porch yelling at the officers. Apologies for the misunderstanding, that was a different video and of course much different than the one I'm talking about.
     
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    Emperor

    Seriously Misunderstood!
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 7, 2011
    8,376
    113
    Nether region
    Let's assume this sad chapter in American history can be dissected and analyzed into roles. You have segments of the population from differing cultures with differing values, differing sympathies, and differing motives. Let's see:

    a. Citizens that are truly outraged by this behavior of the cop
    b. Citizens that are naive idealist and buy into the false narrative that only blacks are targeted by police
    c. Citizens that want to get involved in a cause, even though they have no business being anywhere near these demonstrations
    d. Citizens that want people to see how virtuous they are
    e. Anarchists
    f. Criminals
    g. Criminal opportunists
    h. Citizens that want to protect property and the rule of law
    i. Innocent people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time
    j. Victims
    k. **** stirrers and rabble-rousers
    l. Law enforcement

    I may have left some out, but look how fast the criminal element spread in all of this chaos. The criminal element knew exactly what the end game was before the game started. They had the intestinal fortitude and the conviction to see it through! They knew they had the numbers to hide behind, and they knew the criminal opportunists and anarchists were going to join in once they got the ball rolling. Everyone else on that list was like deer caught in the headlights; or except the LE, were unwitting accomplices?!?

    What I believe the take away from some of this is, criminals won this. The few that may have been arrested couldn't care less about the arrest, the charge, or the punishment in the first place (unless it is a terrorism charge). It won't matter if there is never a suspected case of police brutality here in the US again, they will find another opportunity (a disaster, flood, hurricane, whatever), and they will be back.

    Those of you that want utopian police policies and straight edged empathetic robots to perform those, along with justice for the underclasses are going to have to understand, that unless overwhelming force is used to quell this kind of garbage BEFORE it takes hold, you will have no hope of attaining what you seek.

    Think about this, if you were on the list and were out there from any group other than e, f, g, & l; and you "immediately" left the scene at the first sight of a thrown brick, or a smashed window; how long do you think this **** show would have lasted? Do you honestly believe that these criminals would have caused so much damage and committed so many heinous acts of violence if the numbers of criminals started matching the numbers of LE? Other than group h & i, everyone else should have been hauling ass to leave and isolate the criminals.

    Plenty of blame to go around, but you may not be so holier than thou when you consider the so called "Peaceful" protestors provided ample cover for the criminals to run unabated!
     
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