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Thread: Riots of 2020

  1. #71
    Seriously Misunderstood!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcinnick View Post
    Cops are the government!!! Cops sign up to enforce the laws of the government, not to protect the people. You can't even get away with your "individual bad actor" bullshit, there were FOUR cops there, 3 kneeling on the murder victim, that is not an individual bad actor. Maybe they caught the only 4 bad cops in existence at one stop.
    So, your mind is made up? These guys "murdered" this man? Shall we just jump straight to the executions?

    Obviously you have your opinion, but I try not to get too caught up in the emotional hurricane.
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  2. #72
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco View Post
    The issue people have is if it wasn't a cop, all 4 people would have been arrested on the spot. If me and 4 of my buddies threw someone on the ground and I put my knee on his neck until he died, while my 3 friends watched my back to make sure nobody could stop me, all 4 of us would be in jail or on bond waiting our day in court. It doesn't matter what crime the dead guy committed. There's video evidence showing he was no longer a threat so you could no longer claim the death was self defense.
    I think part of it is that most LEO's aren't considered as much of a flight risk, and are more likely to be identified and available, as opposed to your everyday John Doe criminal. Plus, qualified immunity gives LEOs a bit more legal protection (and peace of mind) than your every day citizen, so their first thought isn't to bug out. Doesn't justify misconduct, and actively thinking about it, seems like a bit of "blue privilege", but just saying that's a a reason they generally are not immediately taken into custody. I can't recall any high recent history profile police misconduct cases where the officer took off. Feel free to correct me on that, I'm too lazy to look it up.

  3. #73
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
    Law enforcement agents are not subject to immediate arrest like you or I. They have arrest powers and therefore they have some discretionary immunity during an arrest. It doesn't matter how bad it appears on a video or even in person, there is a process for them. Think about it in this context; let's say there are 4 cops making an arrest and subduing a non-compliant suspect, they finally get him cuffed and on the ground, and they are all struggling to keep him subdued, so they start tazing him, or beating on him, and you think it is excessive so you intervene. Guess what happens to you? If you are lucky, you don't get your ass kicked; but you will spend the night in jail, and be charged immediately, and they (if they were using excessive force), will have to be accused and investigated through the process. Could take days!?!

    As I stated, it looks very bad for the one cop on face value, and the timeline of when Floyd went unconscious to the time he showed no pulse and then beyond is crazy. You nor I have no way of knowing if there would have been a cover-up brewing in their minds. We may never know unless one of them turns state's on the others; and actually says so.

    Now, you say there is a history of this?!? Can you cite specific instances where cops killed a suspect and then were cleared just because they were cops? I'll tell you what cases you cannot use; Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, and Alton Sterling; I'm on the fence with Eric Gardner, he kept struggling throughout his arrest and up until he passed out from the choke. And, as Austin cited, a video doesn't tell if the suspect was on drugs, drunk, freaking out, hallucinating, is schizophrenic, having a seizure, etc.

    If you want to know what I think is more important from a perceived injustice standpoint than this (although this is terrible and horrible), is the plot to overthrow the President of the US by the FBI and intelligence agencies; and no indictments. Which do you think threatens America and Americans more? But that's me!?!
    But the violent left is all for that. It’s awful hard to get someone to riot out of joy. Unless your team wins a championship, then we burn shit down out of jubilation.

  4. #74
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by krotsman View Post
    I think part of it is that most LEO's aren't considered as much of a flight risk, and are more likely to be identified and available, as opposed to your everyday John Doe criminal. Plus, qualified immunity gives LEOs a bit more legal protection (and peace of mind) than your every day citizen, so their first thought isn't to bug out. Doesn't justify misconduct, and actively thinking about it, seems like a bit of "blue privilege", but just saying that's a a reason they generally are not immediately taken into custody. I can't recall any high recent history profile police misconduct cases where the officer took off. Feel free to correct me on that, I'm too lazy to look it up.
    Was it Drew Peterson that murdered his wife and fled. But he may have been a former police officer when he did that and he clearly didn’t do it as part of his job.

    I probably fingered the wrong guy. My main memory was the massive man hunt in California.
    Last edited by Bangswitch; June 1st, 2020 at 01:51 PM.

  5. #75
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangswitch View Post
    Was it Drew Peterson that murdered his wife and fled. But he may have been a former police officer when he did that and he clearly didn’t do it as part of his job..
    Peterson didn't run. And you're right, he was retired and his crimes were unrelated to any official duties.

  6. #76
    We are the hammer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
    Law enforcement agents are not subject to immediate arrest like you or I. They have arrest powers and therefore they have some discretionary immunity during an arrest. It doesn't matter how bad it appears on a video or even in person, there is a process for them. Think about it in this context; let's say there are 4 cops making an arrest and subduing a non-compliant suspect, they finally get him cuffed and on the ground, and they are all struggling to keep him subdued, so they start tazing him, or beating on him, and you think it is excessive so you intervene. Guess what happens to you? If you are lucky, you don't get your ass kicked; but you will spend the night in jail, and be charged immediately, and they (if they were using excessive force), will have to be accused and investigated through the process. Could take days!?!

    As I stated, it looks very bad for the one cop on face value, and the timeline of when Floyd went unconscious to the time he showed no pulse and then beyond is crazy. You nor I have no way of knowing if there would have been a cover-up brewing in their minds. We may never know unless one of them turns state's on the others; and actually says so.

    Now, you say there is a history of this?!? Can you cite specific instances where cops killed a suspect and then were cleared just because they were cops? I'll tell you what cases you cannot use; Michael Brown, Freddie Gray, and Alton Sterling; I'm on the fence with Eric Gardner, he kept struggling throughout his arrest and up until he passed out from the choke. And, as Austin cited, a video doesn't tell if the suspect was on drugs, drunk, freaking out, hallucinating, is schizophrenic, having a seizure, etc.

    If you want to know what I think is more important from a perceived injustice standpoint than this (although this is terrible and horrible), is the plot to overthrow the President of the US by the FBI and intelligence agencies; and no indictments. Which do you think threatens America and Americans more? But that's me!?!
    You make a good point and I now understand why the officers weren't immediately arrested but I don't think the protesters care anymore. The media has been favoring stories of minorities being harmed by police as a way to get ratings b/c people were sick of the COVID19 news. There's been a few stories repeated over and over and I wonder if the media will have to answer for it after all is said and done. I highly doubt it.

    I didn't mean there's a history of this exact thing, just that there have been a few stories in the news cycle where white people have been doing bad things to black people whether it's harming them physically or emotionally. I know my Facebook timeline has been blowing up with images like the one below and people are going crazy with outrage. So the riots/protests aren't tied to one incident but the outrage from all of them combined.




    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
    Wikipedia is not really the source you want to base all fact on. I will concede, there is some useful info on some subjects, but I find that their interpretations of major geopolitical scandals sometimes lean a little past hard fact.
    Apologies, I wasn't trying to spread any misinformation, just giving the term that related to what he was talking about. From what I understand, the blue wall of silence is where police will protect each other regardless if they feel their partners were in the wrong or not. It's why a lot of people get mad at things like this b/c all it would take is 1 of the fellow officers to pull the guy off to save a life, but none of them did.

    It's why people are praising officer Krystal Smith as a hero right now b/c she did the right thing in confronting the other officer about striking a protester - https://www.local10.com/news/local/2...dale-protests/

    It's just a crazy thing to be witnessing man. It's surreal. And watching both sides escalate shit is terrifying. I mean you see shit like this child being pepper sprayed and wonder why the hell would someone bring a child to these protests and then who the hell pepper sprays a child? https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...-macing-images

    I'm just glad I live on the Northshore. While the protests in New Orleans aren't riots yet, who knows if they will become riots.

    PS Just want to clarify I have the utmost respect for police officers and I believe there are a far greater amount of good cops than bad cops. It takes a certain kind of hero to put on that uniform and I respect anyone who has the courage to do so. I'm just someone watching this craziness with nobody to talk to about it so it's interesting to discuss things here. I always try to see both sides of the coin whether I disagree with one side or the other. I feel the only way to truly understand a situation is to look at it from all angles.
    Last edited by Bosco; June 1st, 2020 at 02:05 PM.

  7. #77
    Training Ferrous Metal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
    So, your mind is made up? These guys "murdered" this man? Shall we just jump straight to the executions?

    Obviously you have your opinion, but I try not to get too caught up in the emotional hurricane.
    The government is held the the standard of innocent until proven guilty, I am not, and I won't be asked to be in this case. What I saw on video was murder. Obviously they should have a trial, but they should have also been arrested at least at the time the police chief determined that all 4 cops are complicit in this death. The police chief said on live TV all four cops where complicit in the death! Do I need to pull up that definition for anyone?

    Eric Gardner should have never been confronted by the cops. What, he was selling cigarettes? That shouldn't be a crime. Victimless crime needs to end in this country. But cops don't sign up to enforce only the Just laws, they sign up to enforce all of the laws.

  8. #78
    Training Ferrous Metal

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    Quote Originally Posted by krotsman View Post
    I think part of it is that most LEO's aren't considered as much of a flight risk, and are more likely to be identified and available, as opposed to your everyday John Doe criminal. Plus, qualified immunity gives LEOs a bit more legal protection (and peace of mind) than your every day citizen, so their first thought isn't to bug out. Doesn't justify misconduct, and actively thinking about it, seems like a bit of "blue privilege", but just saying that's a a reason they generally are not immediately taken into custody. I can't recall any high recent history profile police misconduct cases where the officer took off. Feel free to correct me on that, I'm too lazy to look it up.
    The reason repeatedly given by government officials was that they needed time to figure out the charges. That is bullshit, they could arrest them and charge later like they do regular citizens. Qualified Immunity is bullshit, no other profession gets this kind of protection. If they would have been arrested in a timely manner I think things would have played out differently, but I guess MUH BLUE PRIVELAGE is more improtant.

  9. #79
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor View Post
    Wikipedia is not really the source you want to base all fact on. I will concede, there is some useful info on some subjects, but I find that their interpretations of major geopolitical scandals sometimes lean a little past hard fact.
    You're 100% correct about the above named source,Its getting up there with CNN !!!
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  10. #80
    Donít troll me bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by buttanic View Post
    Looks to me they were all dressed up in their protest and riot attire getting ready to hit the streets. Do you wear a black hat, mask, and black hoodie to stand on the porch with the family
    LMAO! Looks like you hand picked one of the comments from that video. People are wearing masks in public right now for other reasons, and you’re describing one of the people in the video. There is a group of people there and they don’t all fit your description. BOTTOM LINE here is they were WELL within their right to stay on their porch and ignore unlawful orders. The goofballs firing on them were acting outside the law and should be relieved of any duty, badge, and or status they hold in law enforcement. There was absolutely no point in running those folks into their home except a vulgar display of force that was completely unwarranted. Clearly there was nothing going on down that street except for the convoy moving through from point A to point B. The spectacle was the group of guys wearing riot gear and toting guns through a residential neighborhood, parading through and feeling large and apparently wanting to engage an enemy so bad that they attacked the first civilians they encountered, at the door of their home. Anyone condoning or excusing that worries me. Anyone who does not see how wrong they were to fire anything at people on their own porch worries me.
    I don’t think this was ok either, but anyone can watch the video and decide the victim is a piece of trash and deserved it I guess..

    https://youtu.be/gNh0p6S5dnQ
    Last edited by Magdump; June 1st, 2020 at 06:19 PM.
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