“Pistol” foregrips. Tell me more

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  • jwalker814

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    st charles
    Need some insight/clarification on everything regarding the use of foregrips on pistols. Have a small Ak pistol and want to put some form of forward grip, either a nubby vertical or a hand stop type. However I’m unsure of the laws regarding the use of foregrips on a pistol.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Need some insight/clarification on everything regarding the use of foregrips on pistols. Have a small Ak pistol and want to put some form of forward grip, either a nubby vertical or a hand stop type. However I’m unsure of the laws regarding the use of foregrips on a pistol.

    Vertical Foregrips are a no go on pistols.

    Angled foregrips and handstops are okay.
     

    Bosco

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    As usual Dave is right on the money. Adding a foregrip to a pistol makes it an AOW but the ATF has specifically said the angled foregrips do not count.

    This is a very detailed right up if you wanted to read https://www.guntrustguru.com/can-i-add-a-vertical-fore-grip-to-my-ar-15-pistol.html

    Here are letters from the ATF about using the AFG on an AR Pistol https://imgur.com/a/LxC5ypg

    This one has a very clear distinction https://i.imgur.com/SKIvSfo.png

    For your information, Federal law currently does not define "Vertical Fore Grip"; however, ATF has determined that a grip of this type is distinguished by being both forward of the magazine well and oriented at a perpendicular (90-degree) angle to the bore of the weapon. The relative position for the grip around the weapon's bore would not change this determination.
     
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    DAVE_M

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    I'm a fan of the True North Designs Gripstop

    true-north-concepts-gripstop-standard-length-m-lok-r-6.jpg
     

    Magdump

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    Bigchillin83

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    I have heard it before and not sure of legality’s... but I read that it clearly states no *vertical foregrip 90degree* is allowed on a pistol... so what about the *Bcm foregrip* that is actually 85degree angle
     

    DAVE_M

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    I like the positive stop on the back side of it. Is it aluminum or polymer?

    It's aluminum. The ridges provide good traction. There are four variants; MLOK in the full size and K size and a 1913 version in full size and K size.

    46005041034_e3617a99df_z.jpg


    I have heard it before and not sure of legality’s... but I read that it clearly states no *vertical foregrip 90degree* is allowed on a pistol... so what about the *Bcm foregrip* that is actually 85degree angle

    The BCM foregrip is marketed as a vertical grip, so most people don't chance it.

    Having owned both, the Gripstop is more comfortable if you use a vertical grip like a handstop.
     

    Bigchillin83

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    Think the Bcm keg is good to, usually on my ar pistols I like the magpul mlok handguard, simply cause I can’t mentally use Bcm rail covers with magpul hand-stop... I know that’s my issue, so I like the magpul covers and hand stop... gives a good reference for grip
     

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    BrandonPle

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    So what classifies an ak as a pistol ?

    Barrel length ?
    Oal ?

    I recently pulled the wire "stock" off of my AMD and it has 1913 rail on it now ...no stock . Does that make it a pistol ?
    16" barrel ..oal 26.5
     
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    Bigchillin83

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    As far as I understood once a rifle it’s still a rifle unless barrel length is modified under 16*.... remove the stock off of a rifle and just have a silly looking gun....
    So what classifies an ak as a pistol ?

    Barrel length ?
    Oal ?

    I recently pulled the wire "stock" off of my AMD and it has 1913 rail on it now ...no stock . Does that make it a pistol ?
    16" barrel ..oal 26.5
     

    DAVE_M

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    So what classifies an ak as a pistol ?

    Barrel length ?
    Oal ?

    I recently pulled the wire "stock" off of my AMD and it has 1913 rail on it now ...no stock . Does that make it a pistol ?
    16" barrel ..oal 26.5

    It's a pistol when it was built as a pistol. Barrel shorter than 16", no stock.

    If you removed the stock from your 16" barreled rifle, you now have a 16" barreled rifle without a stock.

    If you replaced the 16" barrel with a 10" barrel, you now have a SBR.

    SAM7Kai_1.jpg


    - - - Updated - - -

    As far as I understood once a rifle it’s still a rifle unless barrel length is modified under 16*.... remove the stock off of a rifle and just have a silly looking gun....

    Correct.

    Pistols can be rifles and back to pistols, but rifles can never be pistols.
     

    Bigchillin83

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    One other thing that has always stumped me is this... I have 4- t/c encores, i bought one as a complete lower with rifle stock, one bought as a stripped lower no stock or pistol grip, one bought as a complete rifle and one a complete pistol ... how come it is legal for me to swap the barrel on them assuming I take care of the stock end before install the shorter barrel and I can swap it back and forth from pistol to rifle to shotgun and back....and it is strongly encouraged and suggested by the manufacture and marketing department...

    BUT I have heard it is illegal to swap a pistol ar lower to a rifle, even if you break the lower all the way down to stripped and rebuild it as a rifle with a rifle barrel or vise versa, I can’t strip down a rifle bought lower and make it a pistol.... I don’t see the diff the encore frame be it sold as a pistol, rifle, or stripped you can do what ever you want with it, same thing with several cva’s ect
     
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    Bigchillin83

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    It's a pistol when it was built as a pistol. Barrel shorter than 16", no stock.

    If you removed the stock from your 16" barreled rifle, you now have a 16" barreled rifle without a stock.

    If you replaced the 16" barrel with a 10" barrel, you now have a SBR.

    SAM7Kai_1.jpg


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    Correct.

    Pistols can be rifles and back to pistols, but rifles can never be pistols.

    Yes that’s why I have heard of several people buying a pistol lower and shooting any length upper and just utilize the brace and never change that, in doing so you are legal with a pistol lower from 6*-30* as long as you keep the brace on
     

    jwalker814

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    st charles
    Thanks! Yall have helped clarify my understanding. I had heard someone mention that VFG could be used if they met a certain length but that didn't sit well with me. On my rifles, I run Magpul RVG chopped in half as stops and prefer that grip style. Unfortunately, this little KS-47 is tiny and only going to get tinier once I install the 8" barrel so I wanted something more to grab onto.

    I'm a fan of the True North Designs Gripstop

    true-north-concepts-gripstop-standard-length-m-lok-r-6.jpg

    Im liking that stop, may have to order one.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Thanks! Yall have helped clarify my understanding. I had heard someone mention that VFG could be used if they met a certain length but that didn't sit well with me. On my rifles, I run Magpul RVG chopped in half as stops and prefer that grip style. Unfortunately, this little KS-47 is tiny and only going to get tinier once I install the 8" barrel so I wanted something more to grab onto.



    Im liking that stop, may have to order one.

    My only complaint is that I wished I had ordered one a long time ago when B5 Systems was still making them, because it would have saved me a lot of money spent on trying out other stuff.
     
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