defunding police and early retirements

4-14 · Jun 10, 2020

jdd4570 said:
Well just remember this is on the heels of a 20% loss of city revenue due to the lockdown, so balanced budgets will require cuts somewhere. Also, Hilary Clinton is now being investigated for her deleted emails. Those who want to destroy this way of life certainly have had a fortunate series of "coincidences".

Well obviously you don’t know how the system works. Lmao. Unless you know the direct number to dispatch, you don’t necessarily call the police. When you call 911 or usually goes to operators who decide who to send.

I volunteer in my local fire department. We mostly do medical calls. Outside of wrecks, LEO still shows up to majority of the calls. Calls that have no need to enforce any laws.

So if you call and say a family member is having a *mental breakdown*, because I mean, who else would you think to call, guess who will most likely show up.

Emperor · Jun 10, 2020

jdd4570 said:
Also, Hilary Clinton is now being investigated for her deleted emails. Those who want to destroy this way of life certainly have had a fortunate series of "coincidences".

If Hillary Clinton is at least indicted for any of her alleged crimes, this will all be worth it to me! She most definitely needs to get her day in court!

thperez1972 · Jun 10, 2020

thperez1972 said:
I believe you provided the solution to the issue in your question. If you do not want the police to show up when you call them, don't call them. Let the Department of Hospitals set up a crisis unit. Citizens can call them rather than calling 911.

4-14 said:
Well obviously you don’t know how the system works. Lmao. Unless you know the direct number to dispatch, you don’t necessarily call the police. When you call 911 or usually goes to operators who decide who to send.

I volunteer in my local fire department. We mostly do medical calls. Outside of wrecks, LEO still shows up to majority of the calls. Calls that have no need to enforce any laws.

So if you call and say a family member is having a *mental breakdown*, because I mean, who else would you think to call, guess who will most likely show up.

Yeah, buddy, being full time law enforcement, I know how it works. But thanks for the lesson anyway. Now go back and read my post again. My suggestion was to set up a crisis unit so citizens wouldn't need to call 911. So if a family member were having a "mental breakdown" you call the crisis unit rather than calling 911. Mental breakdowns are a health issue, not a legal issue.

Bosco · Jun 10, 2020

DAVE_M said:
Some people believe that removing the police from existence magically solves racism.

Won't solve racism but might solve innocent people being shot and killed while trying to sleep :dunno:

There are a lot of problems with the system as it is now and while I agree we need some type of reform, I don't think removing the police is the answer.

I get some of the ideas behind "defunding" the police but it's a silly idea overall. The police should be fully equipped to handle any situation that may arise. Should they bring all of that equipment to a domestic disturbance where they'll encounter people too full of emotion to listen to logical commands? I'm not qualified to answer that. But I can see some of the points people are making.

Put some of that funding towards working body cams and equip every officer with one, especially when it will be heated situations that might involve discharging weapons. Have more training for officers towards deescalating situations rather than making them worse. I know everyone laughs at sensitivity training but watch some of these videos that are riling the people up. Some cop gets his ego bruised b/c he's called a pig and then he's beating the **** out the guy with a baton while his buddies look the other way. As someone in authority to uphold the law, you can't lose your cool like that and break the law, and if you do you shouldn't be able to get away with it b/c of the badge.

The original demands of the protesters were understandable but the new ones are a bit insane. I think they realized how much "power" they have out in the streets so now they're asking for some pretty crazy stuff. The people who were originally behind them are slowly backing away from supporting them.

Bosco · Jun 10, 2020

Emperor said:
FWIW: Tucker Carlson is a devout Libertarian. He has claimed that many times on air.

If you want to know the truth about his show, you can just watch his show and get both sides. When he plays the montages from CNN, MSNBC, and the other democrat PAC's disguised as news organizations, you can clearly see the delineation of the point he is usually making. He openly criticizes both democrats and republicans regularly. I don't know of any other "opinion" show out there that appears as fair to all sides as his. Now, you can tell he leans conservative, but that doesn't define him as a right-winger, just as my expecting all American citizens get fair access to schools, jobs, and housing; doesn't define me as a left-winger.

He can be a Libertarian but he has to say whatever Fox is paying him to say. I've agreed with him on many points and also disagreed with him on many but in the end the fact of the matter is he's part of a large media organization that has an agenda to push. He's just another cog in the machine and if he starts malfunctioning then they will replace him like any other cog.

You can't watch his show and see both sides. He doesn't show you full clips, just pieces that line up with the message he's giving. You don't know what led up to the clip and you don't see the person explaining themselves after the clip. You see something and assume the whole story is told in that 10 seconds clip and it's enough to make an opinion on something.

Take the lady who said that it's a privilege to be able to call police and he spun it to "oh i'm a racist if i dial 911". That's not what she was saying. If you watch the whole thing you'll see that black people are afraid to call the police because they fear they'll be the ones arrested or worse killed. Can you blame them when **** like this is happening?

Black business owner punched by cops after calling them about a robbery
Black woman shot through bedroom window when a neighbor called them b/c her front door was open
Black woman called police about her son with mental health issues and they showed up and killed him

Don't ever trust 1 source for your news. Look at as many as you can, keep an open mind, and think for yourself. Like I said, the truth is always somewhere in the middle as everyone has an agenda to push.

Bangswitch · Jun 10, 2020

thperez1972 said:
Yeah, buddy, being full time law enforcement, I know how it works. But thanks for the lesson anyway. Now go back and read my post again. My suggestion was to set up a crisis unit so citizens wouldn't need to call 911. So if a family member were having a "mental breakdown" you call the crisis unit rather than calling 911. Mental breakdowns are a health issue, not a legal issue.

I like your suggestion. Mental health is clearly an area we just burry our head in the sand in this country.

I’ve seen first hand with a family member who was having a breakdown and was suicidal. The police pointing a gun at her wasn’t as effective as one might think. I know a lot of you guys probably have tons of training deescalating, but there are people with a specific skill set and talent of talking people down and I’ve never seen one deploy a Glock as a tactic. And I’m sure you guys would probably prefer to not go on those calls anyways.

Problem is who is going to pay for it. You know the budget for ‘services’ in most municipalities is stretched pretty tight. Of course they could pull from the mayor’s Christmas party fund (or whatever dumb crap that we waste money on), but that’s too logical.

Gator 45/70 · Jun 10, 2020

Yep, Cops get a little Jiggy when you reach for a gun....

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=aO1l4_1591671706

Bangswitch · Jun 10, 2020

Bosco said:
Won't solve racism but might solve innocent people being shot and killed while trying to sleep

There are a lot of problems with the system as it is now and while I agree we need some type of reform, I don't think removing the police is the answer.

I get some of the ideas behind "defunding" the police but it's a silly idea overall. The police should be fully equipped to handle any situation that may arise. Should they bring all of that equipment to a domestic disturbance where they'll encounter people too full of emotion to listen to logical commands? I'm not qualified to answer that. But I can see some of the points people are making.

Put some of that funding towards working body cams and equip every officer with one, especially when it will be heated situations that might involve discharging weapons. Have more training for officers towards deescalating situations rather than making them worse. I know everyone laughs at sensitivity training but watch some of these videos that are riling the people up. Some cop gets his ego bruised b/c he's called a pig and then he's beating the **** out the guy with a baton while his buddies look the other way. As someone in authority to uphold the law, you can't lose your cool like that and break the law, and if you do you shouldn't be able to get away with it b/c of the badge.

The original demands of the protesters were understandable but the new ones are a bit insane. I think they realized how much "power" they have out in the streets so now they're asking for some pretty crazy stuff. The people who were originally behind them are slowly backing away from supporting them.

Body cams exonerate the innocent guy. They may occasionally catch a bad cop in action but if a guy wears one every day he’s going to find ways around it. They also catch the good guy that in the heat of the moment might have gone overboard.

But there’s a lot of day and bull$hit in between that if I were a cop would make me cringe at the idea of having to wear one.

Things like:
Taking a ****
picking my nose
Farting
Telling my partner am inappropriate joke
Sexting my wife (of course while driving)

I don’t know I get they can be helpful but Christ I wouldn’t want to wear it.

thperez1972 · Jun 10, 2020

Bangswitch said:
I like your suggestion. Mental health is clearly an area we just burry our head in the sand in this country.

I’ve seen first hand with a family member who was having a breakdown and was suicidal. The police pointing a gun at her wasn’t as effective as one might think. I know a lot of you guys probably have tons of training deescalating, but there are people with a specific skill set and talent of talking people down and I’ve never seen one deploy a Glock as a tactic. And I’m sure you guys would probably prefer to not go on those calls anyways.

Problem is who is going to pay for it. You know the budget for ‘services’ in most municipalities is stretched pretty tight. Of course they could pull from the mayor’s Christmas party fund (or whatever dumb crap that we waste money on), but that’s too logical.

The "catch-all" solution of just send the cops to check it out can easily make the situation worse regardless of how well the police are trained. Officer presence is the lowest use of force but it still triggers thoughts and ideas. In the mind of someone with mental troubles, the police may inspire him to think he's going to jail. It's not uncommon for that to escalate the situation. In some cases, the policy is more than one officer should respond to a mental call. It could be 2-3 officers and possibly a supervisor. So now there's up to 4 cops there to help talk the person down after the presence of 4 cops has escalated the situation. But let's say they are able to talk him down and he agrees to go to the hospital. If he's shown any kind of resistance up to then, it's likely he would need to be handcuffed before getting in the police car. And now we're back to talking him down from thinking he's going to jail. And at any point along the way, the police presence increases the likelihood a mentally unstable person may physically resist or attack.
I worked in an area that had a volunteer crisis unit. There were one or two vans that would show up anywhere in the city if they were called. Having them available made it so much easier on everyone. They certainly had more training than I did. So I wouldn't need to talk them down to the point where they trusted me completely. All I needed to do was keep them engaged until the crisis unit got there. And I could do that from a small distance so they would never have a cop walking up to them. Most were much more receptive to the padded restraints (see below) of the crisis unit than they were to metal handcuffs. But the unit was volunteer. So if they weren't working one night, they obviously couldn't help out. And without an injury, EMS wouldn't respond. So if it were commitment papers, we had to get him to the hospital.

MOTOR51 · Jun 10, 2020

4-14 said:
Well obviously you don’t know how the system works. Lmao. Unless you know the direct number to dispatch, you don’t necessarily call the police. When you call 911 or usually goes to operators who decide who to send.

I volunteer in my local fire department. We mostly do medical calls. Outside of wrecks, LEO still shows up to majority of the calls. Calls that have no need to enforce any laws.

So if you call and say a family member is having a *mental breakdown*, because I mean, who else would you think to call, guess who will most likely show up.

You said exactly what I wanted to say. If you call any medical, CPS, etc they are going to call the police to make the scene safe so they can go in the residence. Maybe someone should consult the EMS and Fire personnel and ask their opinion On going to calls without police protection.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Emperor · Jun 10, 2020

Bosco said:
He can be a Libertarian but he has to say whatever Fox is paying him to say. I've agreed with him on many points and also disagreed with him on many but in the end the fact of the matter is he's part of a large media organization that has an agenda to push. He's just another cog in the machine and if he starts malfunctioning then they will replace him like any other cog.

You can't watch his show and see both sides. He doesn't show you full clips, just pieces that line up with the message he's giving. You don't know what led up to the clip and you don't see the person explaining themselves after the clip. You see something and assume the whole story is told in that 10 seconds clip and it's enough to make an opinion on something.

Take the lady who said that it's a privilege to be able to call police and he spun it to "oh i'm a racist if i dial 911". That's not what she was saying. If you watch the whole thing you'll see that black people are afraid to call the police because they fear they'll be the ones arrested or worse killed. Can you blame them when **** like this is happening?

Black business owner punched by cops after calling them about a robbery
Black woman shot through bedroom window when a neighbor called them b/c her front door was open
Black woman called police about her son with mental health issues and they showed up and killed him

Don't ever trust 1 source for your news. Look at as many as you can, keep an open mind, and think for yourself. Like I said, the truth is always somewhere in the middle as everyone has an agenda to push.

Again FWIW; I read the Advocate newspaper while I am watching Tucker Carlson; plenty of slanted phony liberal **** to go around in that paper.

But here you are picking 3 different stories without context of how many whites, Hispanics, and Asians have had that happen to them!?! You are doing the same thing you think Carlson and Fox news does.

As for this current situation, I have heard this stat 6 times since last Sunday; According to the DOJ, in all of 2019 only 10 unarmed blacks were killed by police; of those: nine were men and one woman. Each of these cases studied one by one, showed that almost all of them were justified. There were only two cases in which an officer was criminally charged. Conversely, 18 unarmed whites were killed by police. Pretty much twice as many. If you want to break it down even more, you could take the estimated population of blacks in the country versus whites, then break down the percentage of crime committed by each race. When you do, it gets awfully hard to justify this outrage!

By the way, hundreds of both races were killed by police in 2019, and all of those were armed at the time of their killings; and again, more whites than blacks.

All I am saying is this narrative that blacks are particularly under siege by racist white cops all over America is not only a falsehood, it's bad for this country, and it's bad for blacks.

How in the hell do you go from; "OMG, what happened to that man in Minneapolis is horrible, to; let's protest, to; let's destroy, burn, and loot, to; let's demand police reforms, to; let's de-fund police departments, to; let's abolish police altogether, to; let's let everyone out of prison?

This once very noble cause has turned into a circus! And most Americans love the circus until the elephants go crazy and stomp people to death.

Bangswitch · Jun 10, 2020

thperez1972 said:
The "catch-all" solution of just send the cops to check it out can easily make the situation worse regardless of how well the police are trained. Officer presence is the lowest use of force but it still triggers thoughts and ideas. In the mind of someone with mental troubles, the police may inspire him to think he's going to jail. It's not uncommon for that to escalate the situation. In some cases, the policy is more than one officer should respond to a mental call. It could be 2-3 officers and possibly a supervisor. So now there's up to 4 cops there to help talk the person down after the presence of 4 cops has escalated the situation. But let's say they are able to talk him down and he agrees to go to the hospital. If he's shown any kind of resistance up to then, it's likely he would need to be handcuffed before getting in the police car. And now we're back to talking him down from thinking he's going to jail. And at any point along the way, the police presence increases the likelihood a mentally unstable person may physically resist or attack.
I worked in an area that had a volunteer crisis unit. There were one or two vans that would show up anywhere in the city if they were called. Having them available made it so much easier on everyone. They certainly had more training than I did. So I wouldn't need to talk them down to the point where they trusted me completely. All I needed to do was keep them engaged until the crisis unit got there. And I could do that from a small distance so they would never have a cop walking up to them. Most were much more receptive to the padded restraints (see below) of the crisis unit than they were to metal handcuffs. But the unit was volunteer. So if they weren't working one night, they obviously couldn't help out. And without an injury, EMS wouldn't respond. So if it were commitment papers, we had to get him to the hospital.

Well and it’s fair to say someone suffering a breakdown could be triggered by a stiff breeze, so while I agree the fear of going to jail could easily be a trigger so could a benign facial expression that you make. Some times it’s not worth figuring out, because it may never trigger another person.

thperez1972 · Jun 10, 2020

Bangswitch said:
Well and it’s fair to say someone suffering a breakdown could be triggered by a stiff breeze, so while I agree the fear of going to jail could easily be a trigger so could a benign facial expression that you make. Some times it’s not worth figuring out, because it may never trigger another person.

Yep...there have been people having a breakdown who were happy that someone showed up and they were perfectly willing to be cuffed for a ride to the hospital. But I'll bet the number of people triggered by the police being there would likely go down if the police weren't there.

Bangswitch · Jun 10, 2020

thperez1972 said:
Yep...there have been people having a breakdown who were happy that someone showed up and they were perfectly willing to be cuffed for a ride to the hospital. But I'll bet the number of people triggered by the police being there would likely go down if the police weren't there.

Agreed, but the presence of anyone unfamiliar could result in them becoming more irritable and irrational also.

My preferences:
Police or nobody: Police
Police or mental health professionals: MHP

If I were Fire and Rescue or EMS I would want someone watching my backside.

JR1572 · Jun 10, 2020

MOTOR51 said:
You said exactly what I wanted to say. If you call any medical, CPS, etc they are going to call the police to make the scene safe so they can go in the residence. Maybe someone should consult the EMS and Fire personnel and ask their opinion On going to calls without police protection.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This is true.

323MAR · Jun 10, 2020

Disbanding the police would put an end to any and all police misconduct.........
Organizations that do not exist have no issues of any kind!
With that part of the equation solved, all we would have to do is figure out how to get rid of crime!
We would also have to kindly ask drivers to stop causing accidents by driving aggressively and recklessly.
Fire and EMS would carry firearms or hire private security{insert joke here.}

thperez1972 · Jun 10, 2020

Bangswitch said:
Agreed, but the presence of anyone unfamiliar could result in them becoming more irritable and irrational also.

My preferences:
Police or nobody: Police
Police or mental health professionals: MHP

If I were Fire and Rescue or EMS I would want someone watching my backside.

Yes, the police are better than nobody. Most of the time.

SouthernUnderGod · Jun 11, 2020

Instead of unfunding, we need to UPFUND our public safety departments. I don’t know how the officers deal with all the risk of life, nastiness from citizens and non-citizens, crazy hours and low pay.

Anyone who does not think police departments need heavy hardware from time to time must not have been around in BR when the officers were assassinated. It was a very brave LEO sniper in a BearCat that kept it from being more. Plus, nightly unruly mobs that included people trying to block I-12. All of this was pretty close to my home.

By the way, “Last Week Tonight” is not a news program. Neither is John Stewart. They have their own agenda and it’s not friendly to folks who support and respect the 2nd Amendment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Magdump · Jun 11, 2020

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

thperez1972 · Jun 11, 2020

Magdump said:
https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

The standards for being published on that site have more to do with if the story makes for good reading rather than is the story accurate. Their standards are copied below. None of the incidents mentioned in the stored are backed up and his tales are too neat and convenient. He makes himself out to be now be part of the solution. He used to be part of the problem but only because the establishment did not allow him to be part of the solution before. And he curses too much. Sure, cops can talk that way but they don't write that way. It's as if he's a non-a-cop trying to sound like a cop.

-Does the story meet a high editorial standard? – Is it well-written, easy to follow, free of errors, appropriately sourced, narratively strong, and compelling?
-Does it add value for the reader? – Does it share new insights or perspectives? Offer an original take on a familiar issue? Does it stir emotions and/or thinking? Provide meaningful advice? Enrich a reader’s understanding of the topic? Does it feel like time well spent?
-Is it written for the reader? – Is the story written with the reader in mind? Does the story make a connection with the reader or to a larger issue?
-Is it complete? – Is it a finished, polished piece of work? Considered? Concise? Will a reader walk away satisfied?
-Is it rigorous? – Are claims supported? Sources cited alongside stated facts? Does the story hold up to scrutiny?
-Is it honest? – Is the story written in good faith? Is it truthful?
-Does it offer a good reading experience? – Is it properly formatted for the web/mobile? Does it have a clear and relevant headline that lets the reader know what the story is about? An easily readable story body — paragraphs/spacing/styling/section breaks/quotes?
-Is it clean? Is it free of typos and errors?
-Is the imagery appropriate? Is the imagery relevant and appropriate to the story?

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