Louisiana CHP & Constitutional Carry

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  • DAVE_M

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    Let me preface by stating this simply my opinion and should only be taken as such. I'm sure some will disagree and that's perfectly fine.

    I recently took another required CHP course and viewed everything from a different perspective. When I originally took my first CHP couse, I had never attended a day of training and didn't know what to expect. I was mislead, like many, and believed it to be an actual firearms class related to shooting. Fast forward to now, after having attended multiple concealed carry, pistol, and defensive firearms related course, I went into the class with a different mindset. The course instructor did an excellent job and I fully understand that the course material and qualification is dictated by LSP. However, I take issue with the actual material and qualification.

    If you have not taken the course before, it consists of two portions, classroom education and the live fire qualification. During the classroom portion, you will discuss basic firearms nomenclature, basic firearms handling, drawing the firearm from a holster, storage and securing firearms, gun safety and children, as well as discussing applicable laws in relation to concealed carry. There is more emphasis on basic things and not enough discussion on deadly force or when/where you can or can't carry a concealed firearm. Equipment is discussed, but there is very little discussion on actually concealing the firearm. The live fire qualification is comically simple. A total of 36 rounds are fired into a B-27 target at 6 feet (2 yards), 10 feet (3.3ish yards), and 15 feet (5 yards). You will have to perform a reload during the live fire qualification. All 36 rounds must be within the silhouette. As previously stated, the qualification is comically simple, yet people have failed.

    i. live range fire shall include at a minimum 12 rounds each at 6 feet, 10 feet and 15 feet
    for a total of 36 rounds;
    ii. each applicant or permittee shall perform at least one safe reload of the handgun at
    each distance;
    iii. each applicant or permittee shall score 100 percent hits within the silhouette portion of
    an N.R.A. B-27 type silhouette target with at least 36 rounds;

    USPSA/IPSC (left) and NRA B-27 (right)

    size_comparison.jpg


    Considering that the course isn't an actual instructional course on how to shoot a pistol, it's essentially very briefly discussing some things you should already understand if you are going to be be responsible enough to carry a concealed firearm. This is where the issue lies. Prior to taking the Louisiana CHP course, you should have already taken some form of training or instruction. You should most definitely attend training afterwards.

    I was originally of the opinion that many ignorant/uninformed gun owners are deterred by having to pay to attend the course, then pay to have documents notarized, and then pay to acquire a permit. I still am of that opinion, but I also believe that there are many ignorant/uninformed gun owners who go through the steps to acquire the permit anyway, but have absolutely zero desire to seek education outside of that single class. Point being, the ignorant/uninformed person being deterred by cost is no different than the ignorant/uninformed person paying for the permit. The only difference being that one will ultimately legally acquire a CHP and may or may not carry a concealed firearm. For those who seek knowledge and further training, it's a non-issue, but it becomes a burden. The class is a joke and the qualification is designed for people to pass even if they picked up a firearm for the first time in their life. If that's what is supposed to be taken as a serious course, we may as well have Constitutional Carry, because the only thing the CHP course is providing is a paycheck to instructors, notaries, and LSP. If anyone goes into that class expecting they will learn how to become a proficient pistol shooter and have a greater knowledge of concealed carry, they are greatly mistaken.
     

    NOLASHOOTER

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    Jul 9, 2010
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    New Orleans
    I completely agree. Why not require a training course then have to watch a video and take a written test online discussing the laws and use of deadly force. I remember in the class I took there was a couple there who the man clearly had talked his girlfriend into taking it with him and she was dumb as a stump and looked like she had never even touched a gun before. There was also an old man who had some crappy pocket gun that he couldn’t manipulate and when we got to the range it jammed after every shot. It seemed like he picked up the gun on the way to the course never having touched it before. Luckily, me and my friend volunteered to go first and quickly completed the pathetically easy requirements.

    And, listening to anecdotal stories and having dummies chime in with their dumb comments was painful. I don’t need to hear how you will be Dirty Harry when the time comes. You probably would most likely shoot yourself or have the gun taken from you. There was only one person, other than my friend, who I felt was worthy of carrying a gun. It was further shown I was right when they did the shooting portion. How someone could not hit the target at any of those distances is beyond me but they did. I wonder what the percentage is of people who get their permit and never carry. Also, wouldn’t it be a good idea to have people proficient in hitting targets instead of them getting into a self defense situation and drawing their gun and sending a bullet in whatever direction and hurt an innocent? I would feel much better knowing someone carrying can proficiently use their firearm and not just someone who didn’t mind filling out the paperwork and paying the money. I don’t think the current system is the way to do things. What is required in states that have constitutional carry?
     
    Last edited:

    DAVE_M

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    I completely agree. Why not require a training course then have to watch a video and take a written test online discussing the laws and use of deadly force. I remember in the class I took there was a couple there who the man clearly had talked his girlfriend into taking it with him and she was dumb as a stump and looked like she had never even touched a gun before. There was also an old man who had some crappy pocket gun that he couldn’t manipulate and when we got to the range it jammed after every shot. It seemed like he picked up the gun on the way to the course never having touched it before. Luckily, me and my friend volunteered to go first and quickly completed the pathetically easy requirements.

    And, listening to anecdotal stories and having dummies chime in with their dumb comments was painful. I don’t need to hear how you will be Dirty Harry when the time comes. You probably would most likely shoot yourself or have the gun taken from you. There was only one person, other than my friend, who I felt was worthy of carrying a gun. It was further shown I was right when they did the shooting portion. How someone could not hit the target at any of those distances is beyond me but they did. I wonder what the percentage is of people who get their permit and never carry. Also, wouldn’t it be a good idea to have people proficient in hitting targets instead of them getting into a self defense situation and drawing their gun and sending a bullet in whatever direction and hurt an innocent? I would feel much better knowing someone carrying can proficiently use their firearm and not just someone who didn’t mind filling out the paperwork and paying the money. I don’t think the current system is the way to do things. What is required in states that have constitutional carry?

    Many people think having a CHP makes them the police. Some think their pistol is a magical talisman to ward off evil. Some think it gives them the power to be judge, jury, and executioner. Politics aside, it’s amazing that people want to carry a firearm for all the wrong reasons.

    The last thing anyone should want to do is shoot another person. If they are not willing to be concerned with themselves, they sure as hell are not concerned with others. Accountability is the issue and some people just don’t care.
     

    Trailboss

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    8   0   0
    Apr 2, 2013
    389
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    Norwood LA
    ...What is required in states that have constitutional carry?

    If there are requirements, it is not Constitutional carry.

    In LA, there are no requirements for open carry, and IMHO there should be no state-mandated or internet warrior-mandated requirements for concealed carry. People are responsible for their own actions, and everyone should be held accountable for their negligence or unintended consequences. You cannot legislate out stupidity nor educate in common sense, but you can restrict freedoms.
     

    DAVE_M

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    If there are requirements, it is not Constitutional carry.

    In LA, there are no requirements for open carry, and IMHO there should be no state-mandated or internet warrior-mandated requirements for concealed carry. People are responsible for their own actions, and everyone should be held accountable for their negligence or unintended consequences. You cannot legislate out stupidity nor educate in common sense, but you can restrict freedoms.

    You’re correct. People have the right to be stupid.
     

    Bangswitch

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    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
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    a location near you
    Let me preface by stating this simply my opinion and should only be taken as such. I'm sure some will disagree and that's perfectly fine.

    I recently took another required CHP course and viewed everything from a different perspective. When I originally took my first CHP couse, I had never attended a day of training and didn't know what to expect. I was mislead, like many, and believed it to be an actual firearms class related to shooting. Fast forward to now, after having attended multiple concealed carry, pistol, and defensive firearms related course, I went into the class with a different mindset. The course instructor did an excellent job and I fully understand that the course material and qualification is dictated by LSP. However, I take issue with the actual material and qualification.

    If you have not taken the course before, it consists of two portions, classroom education and the live fire qualification. During the classroom portion, you will discuss basic firearms nomenclature, basic firearms handling, drawing the firearm from a holster, storage and securing firearms, gun safety and children, as well as discussing applicable laws in relation to concealed carry. There is more emphasis on basic things and not enough discussion on deadly force or when/where you can or can't carry a concealed firearm. Equipment is discussed, but there is very little discussion on actually concealing the firearm. The live fire qualification is comically simple. A total of 36 rounds are fired into a B-27 target at 6 feet (2 yards), 10 feet (3.3ish yards), and 15 feet (5 yards). You will have to perform a reload during the live fire qualification. All 36 rounds must be within the silhouette. As previously stated, the qualification is comically simple, yet people have failed.



    USPSA/IPSC (left) and NRA B-27 (right)

    size_comparison.jpg


    Considering that the course isn't an actual instructional course on how to shoot a pistol, it's essentially very briefly discussing some things you should already understand if you are going to be be responsible enough to carry a concealed firearm. This is where the issue lies. Prior to taking the Louisiana CHP course, you should have already taken some form of training or instruction. You should most definitely attend training afterwards.

    I was originally of the opinion that many ignorant/uninformed gun owners are deterred by having to pay to attend the course, then pay to have documents notarized, and then pay to acquire a permit. I still am of that opinion, but I also believe that there are many ignorant/uninformed gun owners who go through the steps to acquire the permit anyway, but have absolutely zero desire to seek education outside of that single class. Point being, the ignorant/uninformed person being deterred by cost is no different than the ignorant/uninformed person paying for the permit. The only difference being that one will ultimately legally acquire a CHP and may or may not carry a concealed firearm. For those who seek knowledge and further training, it's a non-issue, but it becomes a burden. The class is a joke and the qualification is designed for people to pass even if they picked up a firearm for the first time in their life. If that's what is supposed to be taken as a serious course, we may as well have Constitutional Carry, because the only thing the CHP course is providing is a paycheck to instructors, notaries, and LSP. If anyone goes into that class expecting they will learn how to become a proficient pistol shooter and have a greater knowledge of concealed carry, they are greatly mistaken.

    Come to the dark side. :dogkeke:

    As I’ve mentioned before Mississippi has an enhanced carry in addition to a basic chp and the semi-constitutional carry. The dummy’s that walk around with an enhanced prove to me that seeking training outside of the state recommended programs is far more important that a super cool ID card.

    I don’t train like you do (honestly it’s a matter of prioritizing my time and money) and even by my own standards I have allowed my skills to dull, but I’ve always been a fan of working in one on one or small group settings with people I know and know their skill set. I also like dry fire exercises in my house or other familiar settings too for refining and building muscle memory and understanding the reality that could be a deadly force encounter rather than toeing a line (or worse stepping into a closet) and dumping a mag at a range. Both are important but you aren’t gonna get those draw and manipulation skills refined at an average range. Thats where if feel I could benefit greatly from some of the courses you take, but again I clearly am not prioritizing training over all the other commitments and such that fills my days and nights.
     

    Bangswitch

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    If there are requirements, it is not Constitutional carry.

    In LA, there are no requirements for open carry, and IMHO there should be no state-mandated or internet warrior-mandated requirements for concealed carry. People are responsible for their own actions, and everyone should be held accountable for their negligence or unintended consequences. You cannot legislate out stupidity nor educate in common sense, but you can restrict freedoms.

    Damn! Well said.
     

    dantheman

    I despise ARFCOM
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    Jan 9, 2008
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    If you attend a CHP class thinking you are going to be trained on how to fire a weapon then you are ignorant and misinformed . That's not the LSP's fault . The info is out there . I personally believe that people should be educated on the laws as pertains to concealed carry .
     

    DAVE_M

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    Come to the dark side. :dogkeke:

    As I’ve mentioned before Mississippi has an enhanced carry in addition to a basic chp and the semi-constitutional carry. The dummy’s that walk around with an enhanced prove to me that seeking training outside of the state recommended programs is far more important that a super cool ID card.

    I don’t train like you do (honestly it’s a matter of prioritizing my time and money) and even by my own standards I have allowed my skills to dull, but I’ve always been a fan of working in one on one or small group settings with people I know and know their skill set. I also like dry fire exercises in my house or other familiar settings too for refining and building muscle memory and understanding the reality that could be a deadly force encounter rather than toeing a line (or worse stepping into a closet) and dumping a mag at a range. Both are important but you aren’t gonna get those draw and manipulation skills refined at an average range. Thats where if feel I could benefit greatly from some of the courses you take, but again I clearly am not prioritizing training over all the other commitments and such that fills my days and nights.

    You’re not wrong. People have to put in the work and find the time to do so, but it’s truly surprising to see how many average uninformed gun owners exist. You could send rounds into the ceiling of the indoor range and pass the qual.

    The original point of my post was that if the qual and class are going to continue to be what they are, then I suppose I’ve changed my mind and would rather have Constitutional Carry where everyone can carry without a permit. In reality, the stupid people will still leave their guns in the car, because you don’t need the permit to do so. Stupid people will continue to shoot themselves and have negligent discharges. The stupid people will continue to be stupid.

    If there is one thing I noticed, on average, elderly white males are the biggest problem, followed by younger white males. Everyone that met a different demographic took the class and qual seriously, even though it’s simple.

    People need to stop confusing rights with responsibility and perhaps things will get better.
     

    DAVE_M

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    If you attend a CHP class thinking you are going to be trained on how to fire a weapon then you are ignorant and misinformed . That's not the LSP's fault . The info is out there . I personally believe that people should be educated on the laws as pertains to concealed carry .

    It’s the fault of the student. However, the course is often misrepresented as training for new shooters.

    While we were in the classroom, the instructor suggested seeking actual pistol training outside of the mandated CHP course. The response by one of the older gentlemen was “Why would I do that if this is all I need to get the permit?”

    His mind was made up. He didn’t care about anything other than legally carrying a pistol. He was also the same person asking if it was legal to shoot someone for stealing his property or if he could take it upon himself to be the hero and stop an active shooter.
     

    whbonney26

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    One should get familiar with whatever firearms they have. Taking a CCP class will in fact make you look sideways at someone who has little or absolutely no gun experience knowing that they will soon be carrying. Even though many of them still wont carry regularly.

    Even if someone does not take defensive training classes or others they should shoot regularly and get to know their gun and how it shoots.

    Sure, the Louisiana class is kind of pointless but some states don't even require that. In my home state of Alabama all you do is go down to city hall and tell them that you want one. You pay the 25 bucks and they print you a rather nice card on the spot. They do offer an enhanced one now though I believe.
     

    DAVE_M

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    One should get familiar with whatever firearms they have. Taking a CCP class will in fact make you look sideways at someone who has little or absolutely no gun experience knowing that they will soon be carrying. Even though many of them still wont carry regularly.

    Even if someone does not take defensive training classes or others they should shoot regularly and get to know their gun and how it shoots.

    Sure, the Louisiana class is kind of pointless but some states don't even require that. In my home state of Alabama all you do is go down to city hall and tell them that you want one. You pay the 25 bucks and they print you a rather nice card on the spot. They do offer an enhanced one now though I believe.

    Some states require a free short classroom course, some you can apply online without ever putting pants on to go outside, some are as you said (a fee), and some don’t require anything at all.

    The Lucky Gunner video of them shooting the Texas LTC qual blindfolded is funny.
     

    dantheman

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    I agree with everything except the part about the courses being misrepresented . I have never seen that , and if it happens then it's probably rare .
     

    DAVE_M

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    I agree with everything except the part about the courses being misrepresented . I have never seen that , and if it happens then it's probably rare .

    To clarify, I don’t mean instructors misrepresenting the class.

    The course outline by LSP is all over the place and people shouldn’t assume that it teaches you anything. The course is essentially recommendations on what not to do with very little discussion on legalities.
     

    dantheman

    I despise ARFCOM
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    To clarify, I don’t mean instructors misrepresenting the class.

    The course outline by LSP is all over the place and people shouldn’t assume that it teaches you anything. The course is essentially recommendations on what not to do with very little discussion on legalities.

    My Instructor was a Para-Legal and was very helpful when it came to the legalities . He even called one of the Attorneys in his office to clarify some things he couldn't answer . I will say that there was a couple of people there that probably had no business owning a gun much less carrying it out in the real world .
     

    twinin

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    I've been to different CHP classes and they are definitely all over the place. One was just about use of force and scenarios, and another one was basically just a handgun 101 class.
     

    Bangswitch

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    You’re not wrong. People have to put in the work and find the time to do so, but it’s truly surprising to see how many average uninformed gun owners exist. You could send rounds into the ceiling of the indoor range and pass the qual.

    The original point of my post was that if the qual and class are going to continue to be what they are, then I suppose I’ve changed my mind and would rather have Constitutional Carry where everyone can carry without a permit. In reality, the stupid people will still leave their guns in the car, because you don’t need the permit to do so. Stupid people will continue to shoot themselves and have negligent discharges. The stupid people will continue to be stupid.

    If there is one thing I noticed, on average, elderly white males are the biggest problem, followed by younger white males. Everyone that met a different demographic took the class and qual seriously, even though it’s simple.

    People need to stop confusing rights with responsibility and perhaps things will get better.

    I agree. That’s always been a major portion to my opposition. The course is the bare minimum in safety. And the qual is useless.

    Here in Mississippi my mom took the basic class and followed it up with the enhance quickly after that. She had the best qual on of the enhanced class. I’ve had to correct her’s and my dad’s grip on range days. I’ve also had many discussions about draw technique and carry position. They are improving.

    The other big sticking point for me has always been. It’s not a right if I have to do x,y and z before I ask for permission, it’s a privilege. I’m an ideologue sue me.

    Additionally It’s worth noting the way the 2A is written, it’s saying so that we have citizens that can protect this country we have to make it a right. So that right comes with the responsibility to exercise your right and protect yourself and those around you from those who mean to do us harm.
     
    Last edited:

    DAVE_M

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    My Instructor was a Para-Legal and was very helpful when it came to the legalities . He even called one of the Attorneys in his office to clarify some things he couldn't answer . I will say that there was a couple of people there that probably had no business owning a gun much less carrying it out in the real world .

    I've been to different CHP classes and they are definitely all over the place. One was just about use of force and scenarios, and another one was basically just a handgun 101 class.

    This is pretty much why I have changed my viewpoint and would rather just have Constitutional Carry.

    The course outline is very vague. It’s up to the instructor to provide good information. The instructor at my recent course did a good job explaining things to those who had questions, but there almost needs to be an attorney at each class to explain legalities.

    People asked if the permit allowed them to carry AR pistols, silencers, and machine guns. They asked about trying to pretend to be the police. They wanted to know if you could shoot people for stealing property. The instructor was more than knowledgeable enough to explain things, but there is so much to cover that there is no enough time in the day, and that is only the classroom portion.

    At the end of the day, people who SOB carry a .45 ACP pocket gun they have only fired 36 rounds through in the lifetime will put that gun on and believe they are a force to be reckoned with and have zero desire to seek further education.
     
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