Must have Louisiana drivers license?

thperez1972 said:

I'm not misleading anyone. I'm quoting the law and the ATF. If you want to interpret "non-licensed residents from another state cannot acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed individuals" as non-licensed residents from another state are free to acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed individuals, you go right ahead. You asked someone to give you the law that said you could not and the law was given to you. And you were show the guidelines from the ATF backing up what the law says. The quoted law wasn't some rumor for people to blindly follow. It was from the U.S. Code posted on the ATF site and copied in this thread and clarified by the ATF's pamphlet. I don't need to call a FFL. When it comes to the laws that will be enforced by the ATF, I believe I'll listen to the ATF.

"other than a plain old average Joe gun owner that happens to live in another state. I give him cash, he hands me the gun."

a plain old average Joe = non-licensed individual
give him cash, he hands me the gun = acquire from
I = non-licensed residents from another state

The ATF described the exact scenario you are saying is legal.

I cannot give a plain old average Joe cash and have him hand me the gun according to the ATF.

Now you come back in here, again, and say it's legal and anyone who says otherwise can show you the law. You've been shown the law and you can (should be able to) read the clarification from the ATF. Now before you start asking for the law again, why not explain how the provided law does not address your scenario.

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Magdump said:

I figured it would go like this.
Go find a FFL and ask them to explain to you when and why it’s legal to buy and sell, face to face from/to private owners across state lines without any FFL involvement.

As far as the ATF, clarification and scenarios, haven’t we all seen how they interpret the law enough to know that there will be lots of doubt and grey areas? I will say once again, there are no laws on the books that would prevent me from doing like I said. That’s the way it is and that’s why I’m imploring you to run it by a FFL. If there’s anyone that would know whether it’s legal or not, it would be a FFL. Can we at least agree on that?
Now, if you’re frustrated with me, remember how you asked if I was advocating breaking a federal law by asking a question.

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(a)  It shall be unlawful--

(3)  for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

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Magdump said:

I figured it would go like this.
Go find a FFL and ask them to explain to you when and why it’s legal to buy and sell, face to face from/to private owners across state lines without any FFL involvement.

As far as the ATF, clarification and scenarios, haven’t we all seen how they interpret the law enough to know that there will be lots of doubt and grey areas? I will say once again, there are no laws on the books that would prevent me from doing like I said. That’s the way it is and that’s why I’m imploring you to run it by a FFL. If there’s anyone that would know whether it’s legal or not, it would be a FFL. Can we at least agree on that?
Now, if you’re frustrated with me, remember how you asked if I was advocating breaking a federal law by asking a question.

Again, no Federal law preventing private sale as I described. ATF does not write and pass or declare firearms laws, they enforce the laws that congress passes.

I have a few numbers for FFL holders in the state if you want them.


As far as what laws and or ATF explanations you’ve provided, I can’t answer for any gun show guidelines and I never said anything about selling or buying at a gunshow in or out of the state. That’s very informative stuff tho and we appreciate the info.

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DAVE_M said:

18 U.S.C 922(a)(3); 27 CFR 478.29

(a)  It shall be unlawful--

(3)  for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

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thperez1972 said:

The law I quoted on the first page was not an ATF interpretation. It was federal law that the ATF quoted on their site. The law Dave quoted is not an ATF interpretation. The ATF interpretation I posted was a collection of laws relevant to people going to a gun show. They are not laws that are only in effect at a gun show. The law stating a non-licensed person from out of state cannot buy from or sell to a non-licensed person in that state does not apply only to the gun show. It applies to you and your rabbit shooting buddy out in the woods. And apparently we cannot agree the FFL would know the law if they are advising you it is alright to violate federal law. You can keep those numbers. I'm certainly not interested in any advice they may care to offer.

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Magdump said:

Lol, my rabbit shooting buddy. Priceless.
I would think a FFL would know the law. I’m sure you must know a trustworthy FFL you could ask to clarify the law for you. Question is, why can we not get one to visit this thread and weigh in?

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It is also illegal to sell a firearm to a resident of another state without going through a dealer, and sellers cannot ship directly to (non-FFL) buyers in another state.

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 An unlicensed individual is prohibited from directly transferring a firearm to a person residing in another State.
Regardless of the purpose of the transfer (e.g. gift, trade, loan, sale, ownership, etc.), this restriction applies to all types of firearms.
 An unlicensed individual may complete a transfer to an out-of-State person through the following procedure:
• The unlicensed individual transfers the firearm to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) located in the State of the person receiving the firearm.
• The FFL will transfer the firearm to the unlicensed out-of-State person.
• The FFL will be responsible for lawfully transferring the firearm.

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DAVE_M said:

It’s okay to be wrong. Without people like you, we would never get to discuss thing likes this.

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/3/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-private-sales-explained/



https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/g...s-transfers-firearms-private-sellers/download

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Magdump said:

Here’s the scenario I’m referring to: A person who is out shooting rabbits with his buddy from a neighboring state and said buddy wants to buy that person’s shotgun. Or, a private seller and a private buyer from different states wish to meet ftf and conduct a sale/purchase of a firearm that they both may legally own in their respective states. I know it’s advised to go through a FFL but What does the law say?
I realize in my first post I didn’t mention a FFL, and I know that interstate sales can be legally achieved via a FFL, but I’m talking about legal private to private sale of a firearm when it’s legal in both parties respective states.

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Magdump said:

Lol, my rabbit shooting buddy. Priceless.
I would think a FFL would know the law. I’m sure you must know a trustworthy FFL you could ask to clarify the law for you. Question is, why can’t we not get one to visit this thread and weigh in?

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DAVE_M said:

It’s okay to be wrong. Without people like you, we would never get to discuss thing likes this.

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/3/buying-and-selling-a-firearm-private-sales-explained/

It is also illegal to sell a firearm to a resident of another state without going through a dealer, and sellers cannot ship directly to (non-FFL) buyers in another state.

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https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/g...s-transfers-firearms-private-sellers/download

 An unlicensed individual is prohibited from directly transferring a firearm to a person residing in another State.
Regardless of the purpose of the transfer (e.g. gift, trade, loan, sale, ownership, etc.), this restriction applies to all types of firearms.
 An unlicensed individual may complete a transfer to an out-of-State person through the following procedure:
• The unlicensed individual transfers the firearm to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) located in the State of the person receiving the firearm.
• The FFL will transfer the firearm to the unlicensed out-of-State person.
• The FFL will be responsible for lawfully transferring the firearm.

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thperez1972 said:

3) you're trolling, or 4) you lack the intelligence required for comprehension. If there's another possibility, please feel free to list it.

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Bangswitch said:

So gifts would not be immune to the invisible boarder nonsense... Noted.

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BDill said:

Another Classic! YAY for us

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DAVE_M said:

Intestate succession isn’t a gift.

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[FONT=&amp]This exception would authorize the transfer of a firearm to a nonresident who inherits a firearm under the will of a decedent.[/FONT]

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Bangswitch said:

Noted. Any details on what constitutes a transfer through succession? If that’s code for gifts inside of family relationships that’s one thing but I could see a more literal approach being applied.

Updated
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/whom-may-unlicensed-person-transfer-firearms-under-gca


So the person would have to be named explicitly in the will based on this.

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DAVE_M said:

I believe that is also handled under law. There have been a few threads on it. Basically, the way I understand it, if Grand Pappy left you his gun collection without a will and he lived in Montana, then you can legally obtain those firearms.

To clarify, I’m not familiar with that part of the law and don’t have much experience with wills or dead folks leaving items to me.

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Bangswitch said:

Me either I've been gifted and given the gift of freedom a couple times none technically were bequeathed to me. The most recent was my Mom gave me a revolver after my grandmother pasted, but there were no legal concerns since we reside in the same state and neither are prohibited persons. But had I still been residing in Louisiana at the time of transfer I believe that would make us both felons.

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DAVE_M said:

Assuming a family member passed in another state, I would assume there would be legal concerns anyway, but at least we figured out if it’s illegal to sell guns to your rabbit hunting buddy when you cross state lines.

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honestlou said:

I am an attorney. I know a good bit about the law, but more importantly, I know how to read laws. This is not a "gray area" of the law. It is very clear, and well settled. For an individual to legally transfer a firearm to another individual, they must both be residents of the same state.

The exception is inheritance. That means someone dies. That does not mean any transfer or gift between family members. Guns left to someone through a will, or through intestate succession (without a will), may be transferred to out of state persons to carry out the succession. That means someone leaves a gun to you in a will, or if a relative dies and you inherit his guns without a will due to the laws of succession, ie. your unmarried father dies without a will you and any siblings inherit his property.

As for FFLs knowing the law, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO EXPECT AN FFL TO KNOW THE LAW! FFLs should know the rules that they have to follow regarding transfers, background checks, record keeping, etc. What the BATF tells them they must do. There is no reason they should know any other laws.

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