Shotgun pistol grip is it legal?

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  • ChriscoCan

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    Hi, Ive got a Moss 590 12ga that I bought second hand from a cabelas. It has a full stock on it. I'd like to put a top folding pistol grip stock on it (https://www.atioutdoors.com/product/shotforce-top-folding-stock/) As far as I understand it, this would change the factory produced operation of the shotgun from a shoulder to a minimum of a pistol grip since the shotgun can still operate with the stock folded. The language for me in the ATF criteria is a bit confusing. Would this change anything and would it still be legal? The overall length is still in legal standing with the stock folded.

    Any input is appreciated. :cool:
     
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    John_

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    I'm pretty certain you would still be 100% legal. We have been able to purchase Mossbergs with a pistol grip and a a barrel length 18" min for 20 years plus. So when you have the stock folded, it equals this. They also sell shotguns with a fixed shoulder stock with a pistol grip.

    So any shoulder fired or pistol gripped shotgun has to have a barrel length of 18" min to be legal.

    Recently shotgun manufacturers started producing bird's head gripped only shotguns with short barrels, with ATF approval. Maybe about 5 years ago. I picked one up for a while, a remington 12 gauge pump. Whole lotta firepower in a very compact legal package. There is an ATF min overall weapon length in this case, I want to say > 26" from my memory.

    here is the mossberg birds head shorty, 14" barrel: https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

    Where is Mr. Perez? I guarantee you he knows the applicable laws by memory and can confirm.
     

    John_

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    excerpt from the ATF website:

    Is a shotgun a firearm subject to the NFA?
    The NFA defines shotgun, in part, as a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.

    A shotgun is a firearm subject to the NFA if the shotgun has a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length. A weapon made from a shotgun is also a firearm subject to the NFA if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.

    [26 U.S.C. §§ 5845(a)(1)-(2), (d)]

    So as long as your barrel length is 18" or longer, you are 100% legal ChriscoCan.

    ATF page: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/sho...shotgun is a firearm,than 18 inches in length.
     
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    thperez1972

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    Where is Mr. Perez? I guarantee you he knows the applicable laws by memory and can confirm.

    While I appreciate the vote of confidence, I do not know all laws by memory. I am, however, pretty good at using the internet to find needed information. And there's a lot of information out there.
     
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    John_

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    I am, however, pretty good at using the internet to find needed information. And there's a lot of information out there.

    Me too. I'll never give up my desktop pc with 27" 2k display and killer sound system.
     

    ChriscoCan

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    Well if this hasnt put my mind at ease. Seems I remembered something about modifying a weapon manufactured to be fired by the shoulder into being able to fire from other means such as a pistol grip to have a special section in the NFA.
     

    Magdump

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    One has only to look at the Mossberg JIC shotgun to know it’s legal. 18.5 inch barrel or longer of course. There are a few shotgun offerings that the manufacturer might call a convertible, that comes with a pistol grip and a regular stock and maybe even a sporter barrel and a security barrel. Mossberg used to offer a cruiser that came with both a stock and a pistol grip.
    Don’t go putting a pistol grip on one of the new Tac or Shockwaves tho. It decreases the overall length below legal.

    https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/500-jic/

    cd618f5d6d818c9f99092f9991d267d9.jpg

    da859e8d736d570c0dcd236a82031e72.jpg

    Legal here in Louisiana
     
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    MOTOR51

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    This reminds me, I need one of those Remington Tac-14s


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    thperez1972

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    This reminds me, I need one of those Remington Tac-14s


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Don’t rule out a 20ga. I bought a few of the Mossbergs when PSA had them for $269. The 20ga is my favorite.

    A Tac-14 in 20ga has been on my short list for a while. I don't think I'd want an unbraced 12ga but the 20ga doesn't seem like it would be too bad.
     

    John_

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    I had the Tac 14 in 12 gauge for a while. It was controllable with 00 buckshot being that you're holding on with 2 hands and recoil is absorbed in your arm motion. With 1 oz slugs, you could take on a grizzly bear @ close range. Like 2700 ft lbs of energy and massive penetration. Hard to beat a 12 gauge pump for home security, shoulder fired for maybe $250. 00 buck @ close range isn't no joke for sure. Or maybe #1 buck if you are concerned with over penetration within a dwelling.

    There was a video I saw on YT prob 15 or 20 years ago on penetration of some common rounds and a motor vehicle. 308, 5.56, 9mm, and 12 gauge slugs from a shoulder fired gun. Those 12 ga slugs went thru both doors (across vehicle) and beyond. They'd a killed anyone in that vehicle. 5.56 wasn't too impressive, also ricochet readily with angled windshield hits @ driver. Some specific 556 rounds didn't reliably make it thru the car door with enough remaining energy to incapacitate a threat. One of the reasons I have read spec ops developed the .458 socom round, better vehicle penetration. And of course better suppressed performance than most M4 offerings.

    12 ga slugs are a beast. Not a man out there who can take a 12 slug to the torso above the waist @ close range and keep on fighting for long, much less a couple rounds.
     
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    TrapperT

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    Gives a whole new meaning to my big 10 inch lol
    If its illegal per atf,just buy it from a big company....

    Just picked that semi auto up about 2 months ago,also
    bought the BA Bullpup semi auto 10rds ,,3.2 secs




     
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    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Now that sounds like fun!
    It’s a good laugh. And a quick way to catch bait I guess. Just don’t try it anytime close to waterfowl season unless you bring all steel shot.

    It’s not new at all tho. First time I started shooting them off the back of the boat was in the late 80’s.
     
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    rdass623

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    i seem to remember somewhere i was told you cannot convert a firearm which was originally specified as a rifle into a pistol, but you can convert a pistol into a rifle if all specs are met. i would suggest doing some good research, there is no reason to get in any trouble...
     

    John_

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    i seem to remember somewhere i was told you cannot convert a firearm which was originally specified as a rifle into a pistol, but you can convert a pistol into a rifle if all specs are met. i would suggest doing some good research, there is no reason to get in any trouble...

    But we are talking shoguns here, not rifles or pistols. Holy moly.
     
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