Two Hurricanes One Gulf
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Bangswitch
Well-Known Member
Yeah I believe that’s the way Dave wants to avoid. It’s quite effective.with a two phase generator.
SouthernUnderGod
Well-Known Member
I’ve been doing it since Andrew. I can run everything but my HVAC. I installed a 220 outlet in the carport and made a male-to-male patch cord. Before you use it, be sure to disconnect your main. If not you could accidentally electrocute a lineman working on a repair. Also, be careful with a patch cord. Bare prongs can be dangerous. If budget allows, a transfer switch is best.
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Electric dryer plugs are actually 240 volt, two 120 volt legs, a neutral and a ground. The problem with this scenario is many residential dryer service outlets have 30 or 40 amp breakers (2), so in theory one leg can only transmit 4800 watts max (40 amp breaker). I honestly do not know if the breaker will trip on reverse power transmission (not the normal power flow), the generator supplying power to the house/appliances. I have searched but yet to find a reliable answer to this question. Need to ask a certified electrician. Maybe a member here on the forum is a certified electrician and can answer this about modern residential breakers. So a guy could connect his 7500 watt gasoline generator and run appliances pushing or exceeding the limits of the home wiring after the 240 V dryer receptacle, via a single 120 V leg. And in most homes, the only appliances potentially powered by 240 volt are the HVAC system, an electric dryer, range/cook top, oven, or a water heater.
Some homes may use NG service as the main heat source for HVAC heater, clothes dryer, range and oven, and/or water heater, not 240 V. Or a combination of NG and elect power for various appliances.
Backfeeding via the dryer plug works, but in some specific cases (large output portable gens) you could get yourself into trouble. I'm sure more than one guy has either electrocuted himself, or set his house afire doing stupid stuff with port gasoline generators and wiring/transmission methods.
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WDSU preempted the Indy 500 with a days worth of weather nothing. How many time do we need to see the same thing .
Bangswitch
Well-Known Member
Dave skip the 3k and jump into something that is two phase you want to be able to feed both phases regardless how little you wish to actually run during the outage. If the electrician did his job when he wired your house he balanced the anticipated loads between the two phases. If you only power one leg you will be chasing your tail figure out what outlets work and which ones don’t. If you’re good with your watt usage go with the smallest generator that makes 240vac. It will make the install and usage all around better.
If a whole home is giving you sticker shock there are ways to do it to code that will save you some coin and burning your house down wouldn’t be a concern. Having been around the electrical industry since I was a little boy you would have plenty of horsepower between your ears to accomplish the task.
If you need some input feel free to PM me. I won’t be giving generic installation instructions here because how your house ties to the grid may be different enough to get someone in deep doo doo or in the ground.
As for as generator selection dual or trifuel 240vac. Wattage and sizing for it could be a whole other topic. Look at the efficiencies in the 50% load area because fuel consumption is clearly a concern. Inverter generators are best at efficiency but inverters that size are very expensive.
To increase run times 100lb propane bottles can be used. Consider the weight though. If memory serves me 100lb bottles is the biggest you can use in a portable fuel storage application. LPG is roughly 5lbs/gal and it’s roughly 80% efficient compared to gasoline.
If a whole home is giving you sticker shock there are ways to do it to code that will save you some coin and burning your house down wouldn’t be a concern. Having been around the electrical industry since I was a little boy you would have plenty of horsepower between your ears to accomplish the task.
If you need some input feel free to PM me. I won’t be giving generic installation instructions here because how your house ties to the grid may be different enough to get someone in deep doo doo or in the ground.
As for as generator selection dual or trifuel 240vac. Wattage and sizing for it could be a whole other topic. Look at the efficiencies in the 50% load area because fuel consumption is clearly a concern. Inverter generators are best at efficiency but inverters that size are very expensive.
To increase run times 100lb propane bottles can be used. Consider the weight though. If memory serves me 100lb bottles is the biggest you can use in a portable fuel storage application. LPG is roughly 5lbs/gal and it’s roughly 80% efficient compared to gasoline.
Wife now wants a whole house and the best way to do it for us will probably be propane because we have a outdoor tank to use for our other household items. I wish we had natural gas to our house but that is the breaks for living in the sticks. from what I read 50% usage for a LP generator will use about ~1.9 gallons an hour and about ~3 gallons an hour at 100% load.
My only problem is that my breaker box is not on the side of the house where the power comes in but all the way in the middle of the house in the laundry room. Not sure why they did it that way but that's what I got. I think I may try and get one that I can switch manually or a big enough one that will run both ACs and other items at the same time.
My only problem is that my breaker box is not on the side of the house where the power comes in but all the way in the middle of the house in the laundry room. Not sure why they did it that way but that's what I got. I think I may try and get one that I can switch manually or a big enough one that will run both ACs and other items at the same time.
yeah it pissed me off. Has to watch on channel 5 in SD, but better than nothing. Why the f**k do you do 24/7 coverage (channel 6) of a cat 1 storm 200 miles away? on Indy Sunday no less!
Bangswitch
Well-Known Member
Do you have breakers for your a/c, dryer, stove, etc. in your meter can?
I have a similar problem. My NG meter/feed is on one side of the house while my elect meter/service is on the other. Its not the end of the world, just have to add in the cost of running 55' of large gauge copper wiring thru the attic for transmission.
And there are limits to how much power you can generate from residential NG service feed. Its only a one inch dia pipe @ approx 1/2 psi downstream from your meter/regulator.
I did read on line you can pay to have a separate feed line/regulator/meter to you perm install generator, @ a greater pressure. One guy on line said he had 2 psig @ his gen.
It was horrible.
I have a large gasoline generator. When I built my ballistic laboratory, I had the electricians run very large wire from the house main panel box, to my lab. I then had them install a welding outlet on the back of the lab.
My generator lives back there, under the cover of an insulated patio cover attached to the lab, and designed to withstand a hurricane.
I then slap myself in the back of the neck until it is red, and go outside and turn off the appropriate breakers, including the main. Everything is plainly marked, and I put a lock on the panel box so that nobody can switch the main back on except myself.
I used to pull the meter, but Entergy got testy about that.
I went 21 days like this after Katrina.
And have gone as long as a week after other, smaller storms.
I can run two window unit air conditioners, the fridge/freezer, deep freeze, beverage fridge, lights, TV, and more. I can even wash clothes if I turn a few things off.
Things I don't have. My house is all electric.
Indoor cooking. Propane is my friend.
Hot water. Cold showers is the answer. Or go swimming.
Central AC. We sleep in the front room where it stays nice and cool on the sofa bed.
I wish I had NG I will have to run LP and I had a high-pressure regulator put in at the tank and low pressure at the house for the inside appliances so I am GTG if that is an issue. I only have a 250Gallon tank I think. I don't have an attic so running new line would not be possible. I think if I got a 20kW generator it could power my whole house with no issue.
I have a propane stove top and propane water heater so that is not an issue would just have to be careful using the oven as it is electric.
Have a small gennie for the fridge and freezers and two room ACs so won't die if power is out for a bit. Only need AC to sleep.
20kw is a lot of power, 166 amps @ 120 volt. You should def be able to power your entire house, and the oven no problem.
Bangswitch
Well-Known Member
Talk to me about your meter base. With interior panel usually your meter has has a main panel under it. In that panel generally speaking the there are a could breakers one will power you interior panel (sub-panel). If that’s the case you have options, but you will most likely need to de-energize (Power company required) the house at the meter, add some gear between the meter and the main panel, and re-energize the house (again power company required). It’s not super complicated but you need to know what you got before you start setting it all up. If you have everything ready you could have the power company come in and kill the power, you make the terminations and be powered back up in an hour (maybe less).
I have a transfer switch outside by the meter. I could probably have the generator wired to that and do a manual switch when the power is out. Or I don't know if they can put the auto switch panel there and have the generator switch over automaitcally. I have't looked into it too much yet. I do have some breakers outside but think they are for a couple of external items My panel is in the middle of the house with the meter running to it through the house in some conduit i think been awhile since we built so going off memory.
Bangswitch
Well-Known Member
If you have a transfer switch after the meter can and your a/c, and large appliance breakers are in your meter can you will need them to be on load side of the transfer switch to run them on your generator. It’s worth considering sizing of your original gear and wiring coming from generator.
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Well wind shear and the high pressure right on the LA coastline and north are kicking Marco's butt. @ 40 mph right now. Tropical storms do not like high pressure, the inverse of their very nature. I don't think we will even get any rain in Hammond.
I believe everything runs off the two panels I have in the house. at least that is where all the breakers are at I think the only thing at the meter may be the septic tank aerator and I am fine if that goes off with the power.
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