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  • 323MAR

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    As if that's a reason not to become proficient shooting beyond 21 feet...

    I am pretty sure that I was referring to practice with self-defense handguns for self-defense. While I have placed shots with a J-frame and a Colt Cobra on a B27 Target from 25 yards well inside the 9 ring, it was not practical self-defense practice.
    I have different rules for the firearms that I consider to be range toys. This topic is centered on shooting J-frame revolvers.
     

    DAVE_M

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    I am pretty sure that I was referring to practice with self-defense handguns for self-defense. While I have placed shots with a J-frame and a Colt Cobra on a B27 Target from 25 yards well inside the 9 ring, it was not practical self-defense practice.
    I have different rules for the firearms that I consider to be range toys. This topic is centered on shooting J-frame revolvers.

    So when a threat is 21 ft 1 inch away, they are no longer a threat?
     

    323MAR

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    "I don’t know what range you are shooting from, but for a self-defense handgun it is not practical to shoot beyond 21 feet".

    As I mentioned in my first post, I was shooting one-handed at 30 feet. Why is it not practical to shoot a J-frame beyond 21 feet?
    Fifty years ago I could pretty consistently hit coke cans at 25 yards and squirrels at about 50 feet with my J-frame (the squirrels moved around a lot more than the cans). Are the guns no longer capable of doing that?
    I thought it was just me screwing up.

    Are you shooting the J-frame just for fun? If so, then shoot at any range you wish. You can hit targets with a snub nose from 25 yards, but I doubt you ever have to do that in an actual gunfight.
    The use of the term “practical” infers self-dense shooting. The vast majority of shootings occur much closer than 30’.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Are you shooting the J-frame just for fun? If so, then shoot at any range you wish. You can hit targets with a snub nose from 25 yards, but I doubt you ever have to do that in an actual gunfight.
    The use of the term *practical* infers self-dense shooting. The vast majority of shootings occur much closer than 30’.

    Doubting one will have to shoot that far in a gunfight does not mean someone should not practice at distances greater than 7 yards.

    I doubt I will need my firearm in my lifetime, but the chance exists, even if it is incredibly small. Should I stop carrying a firearm because of that?

    The furthest practical shot I would have to take within my home is nearly 3 times the length of what you consider to be practical.
     
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    323MAR

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    So when a threat is 21 ft 1 inch away, they are no longer a threat?

    I would say that depends on what kind of weapon is involved and the behavior of the *threat.*
    If the *threat* has retreated in good faith, then YOU are now the aggressor and the *threat.*
     

    DAVE_M

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    I would say that depends on what kind of weapon is involved and the behavior of the *threat.*
    If the *threat* has retreated in good faith, then YOU are now the aggressor and the *threat.*

    If you have a J Frame in your hand and someone is pointing a gun at you from over 21 feet I guess you’re going to shout *this is impractical!* and wait to die.
     

    323MAR

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    Doubting one will have to shoot that far in a gunfight does not mean someone should not practice at distances greater than 7 yards.

    I doubt I will need my firearm in my lifetime, but the chance exists, even if it is incredibly small. Should I stop carrying a firearm because of that?
    The furthest practical shot I would have to take within my home is nearly 3 times the length of what you consider to be practical.

    I am not going to answer silly questions that are disingenuous to this discussion(Should I stop carrying a gun?)

    Here’s a silly question for you: Is your home set up like the lair of a Bond villain or the enemy base from an anime?
     

    323MAR

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    If you have a J Frame in your hand and someone is pointing a gun at you from over 21 feet I guess you’re going to shout *this is impractical!* and wait to die.


    Thank you! Ok, the person is a threat at that range, but I would consider running away and letting the stupid criminal try his luck against a Marine who is zig zagging while running. If this is in your house, then the J-frame should be used to fight your way to the shotgun, rifle, carbine, or a powerful handgun(10mm Glock 20 in my case.)
     

    DAVE_M

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    I am not going to answer silly questions that are disingenuous to this discussion(Should I stop carrying a gun?)

    Here’s a silly question for you: Is your home set up like the lair of a Bond villain or the enemy base from an anime?

    My home is set up in an open floor plan where I have shots further than 10 yards. If you're going to preach fudd lore, then you should be able to back up those claims.

    Since this thread is about J-Frame wheel guns, lets talk wheel guns.





    I don't shoot it nearly often enough, so stopped and ran 5 rounds through it today (I only had 10 with me). 30 feet, one handed, windy conditions. I didn't do too well. Horizontal scatter was four rounds at 3/4 inch with one thrown 1.5 inches to right.
    Vertical scatter was three rounds at 1.5 inches with two thrown 3.5 inches high.

    Shooting a J Frame at 10 yards strong hand only with a group that has one flyer that is 1.5" right is pretty damn good. That's 4 rounds in the X ring of a B8 and one that landed in the 8 or 9 ring. That's still within a USPSA A Zone. Congratulations, you shoot better than 90% of gun owners in America. I wouldn't call that bad. Obviously, the one flyer was all you and not the wheel gun.

    As far as someone telling you that's impractical, I would ignore them. Strong hand only shooting at 10 yards is EXTREMELY practical as far as skills building is concerned.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Thank you! Ok, the person is a threat at that range, but I would consider running away and letting the stupid criminal try his luck against a Marine who is zig zagging while running. If this is in your house, then the J-frame should be used to fight your way to the shotgun, rifle, carbine, or a powerful handgun(10mm Glock 20 in my case.)

    This is the dumbest **** I have read on BS in a long time.

     

    323MAR

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    This is the dumbest **** I have read on BS in a long time.



    Wow! You have resorted to insulting someone here and continuing to make comments based upon assumptions within the context of your own mind. You did not even describe the scenario.
    If a random person pointed a firearm at me from beyond close pistol range, and all I had was a J-frame and only 5 rounds(no extra ammo), then retreat IS an option; especially if you are no longer in LE. Yes, I know a detective who sometimes only carries a Ruger LCR and 5-10 rounds. The best way to survive a gunfight is avoid them when possible.
     
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    DAVE_M

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    Wow! You have resorted to insulting someone here and continuing to make comments based upon assumptions within the context of your own mind. You did not even describe the scenario.
    If a random person pointed a firearm at me from beyond close pistol range, and all I had was a J-frame and only 5 rounds(no extra ammo), then retreat IS an option; especially if you are no longer in LE. The best way to survive a gunfight is avoid them when possible.

    I didn’t insult you.

    I pointed out that what you said was comically stupid.

    The only thing I will agree with is your last sentence. However, just remember if all you have is a J Frame, that was your choice and you need to be as competent as necessary in order to not be a liability. Only training at 7 yards and closer is foolish.
     

    323MAR

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    We practiced the 21' rule in the early 1960's using rubber knives and pistols. It was difficult to defend then and has increased to 25'-30' minimum now.


    Some instructors used 21’ well into the 90’s, but if 25’-30’ has become the norm, then I stand corrected.
     

    DAVE_M

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    Some instructors used 21’ well into the 90’s, but if 25’-30’ has become the norm, then I stand corrected.

    There is a vast difference between the statistical average of a self defense shooting and how one prepares them self to become a proficient shooter.
     

    323MAR

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    I didn’t insult you.

    I pointed out that what you said was comically stupid.

    The only thing I will agree with is your last sentence. However, just remember if all you have is a J Frame, that was your choice and you need to be as competent as necessary
    in order to not be a liability. Only training at 7 yards and closer is foolish.


    I my view, you could have made your point without the insult. I have not been involved in any firefights in the United States. That is mainly because I have either driven my vehicle away from, or run away from the threat several times over the last 20 years in the New Orleans area. In one of those instances, I blocked a punch, executed a foot sweep, and proceeded to leave the bar.
    I proved my manhood by serving our country as a United States Marine. I have nothing to prove to any random punk on the street.
     

    323MAR

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    There is a vast difference between the statistical average of a self defense shooting and how one prepares them self to become a proficient shooter.


    Point taken! Now you see how easy it can be to make a point without resorting to insults!
     

    DAVE_M

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    Point taken! Now you see how easy it can be to make a point without resorting to insults!

    You could have simply avoided bringing up the topic of self defense distances altogether since it isn’t really relevant to the OP’s question, but here we are...
     

    323MAR

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    You could have simply avoided bringing up the topic of self defense distances altogether since it isn’t really relevant to the OP’s question, but here we are...

    I considered self-defense shooting to be relevant to the topic, since non-collectible J-frames are considered to be self-defense handguns. I have sometimes carried them with 5 extra rounds on a speed loader or speed strip and even carried a .22 Airlite(yes, I did practice drawing from the ankle and firing at the range) as a back up. There were other times when I carried a 9mm 940 as a back up to my SIG P226(the same Corbon 115gr +P was in both.)

    Was I mistaken to assume that this was self-defense practice?
    I think so!
    Did I fail to see that some shooters plink(shoot for fun) with 9mm or .38 J-frames?
    Perhaps I did!
     

    JimCunn

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    "I proved my manhood by serving our country as a United States Marine. I have nothing to prove to any random punk on the street".

    Well said, and spot on.
     
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