J-frame group

JimCunn · Sep 2, 2020

My primary carry is an Airweight 637-2 lightened up to 12.5oz with a titanium cylinder reamed for 9x19. Carry ammo is 147gr jhp. Recoil is brisk and about halfway between .38Sp+P and .357Mag. A little bit painful to the thumb, but not enough to cause flinching.

I don't shoot it nearly often enough, so stopped and ran 5 rounds through it today (I only had 10 with me). 30 feet, one handed, windy conditions. I didn't do too well. Horizontal scatter was four rounds at 3/4 inch with one thrown 1.5 inches to right.
Vertical scatter was three rounds at 1.5 inches with two thrown 3.5 inches high.

I'm fairly content with the horizontal scatter, but those two rounds that were thrown 3.5 inches high bug me. Two of these shots would have missed a coke can at 30 feet. What do you guys think I may have been doing to cause those vertical throws?

BTW, my backup is a Kimber Micro 9 also with the 147gr jhp.

themcfarland · Sep 2, 2020

JimCunn said:
My primary carry is an Airweight 637-2 lightened up to 12.5oz with a titanium cylinder reamed for 9x19. Carry ammo is 147gr jhp. Recoil is brisk and about halfway between .38Sp+P and .357Mag. A little bit painful to the thumb, but not enough to cause flinching.

I don't shoot it nearly often enough, so stopped and ran 5 rounds through it today (I only had 10 with me). 30 feet, one handed, windy conditions. I didn't do too well. Horizontal scatter was four rounds at 3/4 inch with one thrown 1.5 inches to right.
Vertical scatter was three rounds at 1.5 inches with two thrown 3.5 inches high.

I'm fairly content with the horizontal scatter, but those two rounds that were thrown 3.5 inches high bug me. Two of these shots would have missed a coke can at 30 feet. What do you guys think I may have been doing to cause those vertical throws?

BTW, my backup is a Kimber Micro 9 also with the 147gr jhp.

Due to the recoil, I suffer the same.. Mine is almost all anticipating the massive recoil and report.. I run a 340pd with 158g 357 mags

JBP55 · Sep 2, 2020

Center Mass is larger than 3".

JimCunn · Sep 2, 2020

Thanks. I'll work on that.

JimCunn · Sep 2, 2020

"Center Mass is larger than 3".

Not on a squirrel head or snake neck :-)

JBP55 · Sep 2, 2020

JimCunn said:
"Center Mass is larger than 3".

Not on a squirrel head or snake neck :-)

A MK4 Ruger .22 is a good squirrel or snake pistol.
I took out 2 Possums with one recently at 75'.

JimCunn · Sep 2, 2020

I used to use a Ruger single six .22 for that

pangris1 · Sep 3, 2020

Buy a 22 revolver and practice, practice, practice - then dry practice with yours - when firing focus on the front sight and stroke the trigger deliberately - think the words as you focus "Front Sight, stroke" as you let the gun go off when that sequence plays out - and the bullets will magically matriculate to the X. Over time. With work.

jdindadell · Sep 3, 2020

Less coffee and more dry fire!!

I would suggest that you should do some hand and wrist strengthening exercises but I am sure there will be some expert along to correct me on that. Whatever.

You could also buy a nagant revolver and use it for dry fire practice. It has something like a 72lb da pull. If you get good with it that airweight should be a piece of cake

323MAR · Sep 3, 2020

I agree with the dry fire suggestion. If you really want to hit center mass dead center consistently, then you can not afford to anticipate recoil. Dry fire practice is great training, because you are doing everything that happens on the range without the round firing and the resulting recoil. You will stop anticipating recoil if the majority of your trigger time is dry fire. USPSA competition shooters will sometimes spend an entire hour on dry fire.

The only costs involved is the price of the snap caps and your time. The suggestion about doing the dry fire drills with a bad double-action trigger is a good one. Most of my dry fire is done with my HK P30, but a Nagant revolver is cheaper. Your cheapest option though is the purchase of 9mm snap caps for your revolver. I do 50-100 snaps per session rotating between isosceles, right, and left.

323MAR · Sep 3, 2020

pangris1 said:
Buy a 22 revolver and practice, practice, practice - then dry practice with yours - when firing focus on the front sight and stroke the trigger deliberately - think the words as you focus "Front Sight, stroke" as you let the gun go off when that sequence plays out - and the bullets will magically matriculate to the X. Over time. With work.

Yes, the purchase of a similar revolver in .22 is an excellent idea. I begin every range session with at least 50 rounds of .22 shooting. It’s like doing a warm-up before the work out. Your muscles get a chance to prepare for the the real deal. You will get more quality shooting out of your expensive center-fire ammo if you just shoot your cheaper .22 rounds first. This will improve the quality of your range session and you will look forward to coming back to the range sooner than later.

JimCunn · Sep 3, 2020

I like .22s and have several of them.

Cutting back on the coffee is a great idea that I probably won't implement due to my caffeine addiction.

"I would suggest that you should do some hand and wrist strengthening exercises".

I played pro level tennis for several decades. Even at 78, hand and wrist strength aren't an issue.

I have more of a problem in that the lenses installed during my cataract operations don't allow me to focus on the front sight. I don't know that there is a solution for that. However, I don't think the blurred front sight is causing me to throw high. It just causes me to scattershot in all directions more than I did when I could see.

Problem could be due to recoil anticipation, but I would have expected that to cause me to throw low rather than high.

themcfarland · Sep 3, 2020

Jim, I couldnt explain it why I was going up instead of down.. with semi auto I was going down. with revolver I was going up..
I did do lots of dry fire for strength and still do for maintenance, but for me, going up was directly attributed to the recoil. I had to have someone watch me, record me with slow speed I phone to nit pick ..

JimCunn · Sep 3, 2020

"I had to have someone watch me, record me with slow speed I phone to nit pick".

That is a great idea. Thanks.

323MAR · Sep 3, 2020

I don’t know what range you are shooting from, but for a self-defense handgun it is not practical to shoot beyond 21 feet. My reasoning is that 21 feet is about where someone armed with a knife or blunt object becomes a threat. A human being is capable of closing that distance in as little as 1 second to harm you. Most gun fights happen at much closer than that, so close range practice is important.

If you want to shoot beyond self-defense range, then that is where your .22 and any firearms that you consider to be *range toys* come in.

JimCunn · Sep 3, 2020

"I don’t know what range you are shooting from, but for a self-defense handgun it is not practical to shoot beyond 21 feet".

As I mentioned in my first post, I was shooting one-handed at 30 feet. Why is it not practical to shoot a J-frame beyond 21 feet?
Fifty years ago I could pretty consistently hit coke cans at 25 yards and squirrels at about 50 feet with my J-frame (the squirrels moved around a lot more than the cans). Are the guns no longer capable of doing that?
I thought it was just me screwing up.

swampgeauxfur · Sep 7, 2020

JBP55 · Sep 7, 2020

323MAR said:
I don’t know what range you are shooting from, but for a self-defense handgun it is not practical to shoot beyond 21 feet. My reasoning is that 21 feet is about where someone armed with a knife or blunt object becomes a threat. A human being is capable of closing that distance in as little as 1 second to harm you. Most gun fights happen at much closer than that, so close range practice is important.

If you want to shoot beyond self-defense range, then that is where your .22 and any firearms that you consider to be *range toys* come in.

We practiced the 21' rule in the early 1960's using rubber knives and pistols. It was difficult to defend then and has increased to 25'-30' minimum now.

JimCunn · Sep 7, 2020

Spot on.

DAVE_M · Sep 7, 2020

323MAR said:
I don’t know what range you are shooting from, but for a self-defense handgun it is not practical to shoot beyond 21 feet.

As if that's a reason not to become proficient shooting beyond 21 feet...

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