"budget AR thread" has me thinking

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  • jcdogfish

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    The budget AR thread has me thinking I want one. I have no experience with the AR platform. I would assume 223 is the best way to go. Any recommendations or what to stay away from is appreciated. I was looking at MP 15's to have similar 22lr and 223 rifles. I need to do more reading on sights etc. I have too many handguns and may sell a few or trade for the right AR to fund this project. Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated.
     

    DAVE_M

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    The budget AR thread has me thinking I want one. I have no experience with the AR platform. I would assume 223 is the best way to go. Any recommendations or what to stay away from is appreciated. I was looking at MP 15's to have similar 22lr and 223 rifles. I need to do more reading on sights etc. I have too many handguns and may sell a few or trade for the right AR to fund this project. Any thoughts or recommendations are appreciated.

    It's rare these days to find a true .223 Remington chambered AR-15. Most will either by chambered in 5.56x45 or .223 Wylde. The confusion comes from the idea that .223 Wylde is a caliber, when it's in fact not. It's simply a designation for the type of chamber cut. Fear not, 5.56 and .223 Wylde chambers can both safely fire .223 Remington and 5.56 ammunition, but a .223 Remington chamber is dedicated to .223 Remington ONLY. Depending on what your intended purpose and budget are, that will help you decide what your choices will be.

    Building isn't the way to go if it's your first rifle. The people who say otherwise are inexperienced and neglect to account for the cost of tools and the amount of time spent learning the platform. It's much cheaper to just buy a quality rifle from the start.

    Your choices are going to be narrowed down based on barrel length, gas system length, and chamber cut:

    14.5" Pinned & Welded, 16", 18", or 20" Barrel Lengths
    Carbine Length, Mid Length, or Rifle Length Gas Systems
    5.56 Chamber or .223 Wylde Chambers

    From then you can decide on what you are willing to spend. A decent fighting carbine will run between $900-1500. There are various rifles that cost less, but they come at the cost of cut corners, cheaper materials, poor assembly, and overall lesser quality. However, that may be totally fine if your only plans are to go to the range every now and then to shoot a box of ammo down range with the kids. If you're looking to get a rifle for home defense and want to take some classes or shoot thousands of rounds down range per year, you should really look into buying a quality rifle.

    If you ever need any help or have questions, PM me and I'll help as best as I can.
     

    southerncanuck

    www.RangeSport.com (Use code "BayouShooter")
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    Most of the people on here can give you wayyy better advice than me. One thing I know for sure is you want a 5.56 build -- 5.56 can shoot 223, but not the other way around. I'm in exactly the same boat as you, just two months ahead of your timeline... I'm currently staring at a box of parts for my first build. Sold a couple handguns to finance it, and am going to start the build process probably next week. Financially speaking, we have terrible timing.

    Building isn't the way to go if it's your first rifle. The people who say otherwise are inexperienced and neglect to account for the cost of tools and the amount of time spent learning the platform. It's much cheaper to just buy a quality rifle from the start.

    I am one of those inexperienced people Dave is referring to, but I wanted to roll my own vs buying a complete rifle so I could learn the nuances of how everything works. For me, the investment of resources seems worthwhile. My build is 100% crowdsourced, based on some other forums (mostly reddit.com/r/ar15) and long -- probably extremely boring for them -- chats with people off this site. It's not "budget" but I'd say it's middle of the road respectable from tip to tip. I spent a fair amount of time researching every little spring and screw. I'm just over a grand on the rifle itself, plus another 500-ish on optics, sling, mags and $50 for some tools I didn't have. I haven't double-checked everything but I assume that I overpaid by about 15% because of my timing.

    I found this and used it as my starting off point: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...CVT7OLzOPkXJIYWZ42kC5BHPQ/edit#gid=1934667715 then tweaked and updated as need be. I didn't stick to their specific recommendations as much as I did use it for a resource to makes sure I had everything. (I'll share my pics and list when I get it all ready to roll.)

    This video looks to be a very good resource for building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG03RlUDkE8&feature=youtu.be
     
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    DAVE_M

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    so I could learn the nuances of how everything works.

    This is the best reason to build, but people should go about it the way you are by learning and taking their time, rather than cobbling everything together at the dinner table with pliers and a beer.

    This video looks to be a very good resource for building: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG03RlUDkE8&feature=youtu.be

    It's a good start, but there are some things he does in that video that I would absolutely recommend not doing.
     
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    jcdogfish

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    thanks Dave, appreciate the reply, SouthernC thanks for the links. Timing is bad for buying but good for selling, thats why I'm probably selling or trading to fund the AR,,should be a wash.
     

    shrxfn

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    When I got my first AR I went with a 5.56 mid length gas and 1:8 twist. That thing shoots way better than I do but I am not looking for .25MOA out of that type of rifle.
    If you want to get some hands on with your AR like I did I would buy an upper in the spec/price range you desire and then build your lower. Building your lower can be done without all the specialized tools unlike an upper. I am in no way a master armorer and I was able to get my first lower built with some pliers, punches,some painters tape and watching videos on YouTube and Brownells website. It is still functioning flawlessly to this day and nothing has loosened up but I also don't shoot 15k rounds a year through it but I think it would be fine even then.

    My next challenge is to convert a 5.56 upper to 300BO but need to get some of those specialiezed tools to do that and make sure it is safe to shoot but that is a story for another time.
     

    Lets_Ride

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    It's rare these days to find a true .223 Remington chambered AR-15. Most will either by chambered in 5.56x45 or .223 Wylde. The confusion comes from the idea that .223 Wylde is a caliber, when it's in fact not. It's simply a designation for the type of chamber cut. Fear not, 5.56 and .223 Wylde chambers can both safely fire .223 Remington and 5.56 ammunition, but a .223 Remington chamber is dedicated to .223 Remington ONLY. Depending on what your intended purpose and budget are, that will help you decide what your choices will be.

    Building isn't the way to go if it's your first rifle. The people who say otherwise are inexperienced and neglect to account for the cost of tools and the amount of time spent learning the platform. It's much cheaper to just buy a quality rifle from the start.

    Your choices are going to be narrowed down based on barrel length, gas system length, and chamber cut:

    14.5" Pinned & Welded, 16", 18", or 20" Barrel Lengths
    Carbine Length, Mid Length, or Rifle Length Gas Systems
    5.56 Chamber or .223 Wylde Chambers

    From then you can decide on what you are willing to spend. A decent fighting carbine will run between $900-1500. There are various rifles that cost less, but they come at the cost of cut corners, cheaper materials, poor assembly, and overall lesser quality. However, that may be totally fine if your only plans are to go to the range every now and then to shoot a box of ammo down range with the kids. If you're looking to get a rifle for home defense and want to take some classes or shoot thousands of rounds down range per year, you should really look into buying a quality rifle.

    If you ever need any help or have questions, PM me and I'll help as best as I can.

    Great post! Informative and helpful.
     

    DAVE_M

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    thanks Dave, appreciate the reply, SouthernC thanks for the links. Timing is bad for buying but good for selling, thats why I'm probably selling or trading to fund the AR,,should be a wash.

    The biggest hurdle right now is just trying to find guns and parts.

    I had a friend ask me to find him a specific rifle model and when I finally found it, he decided to think about it overnight. By the morning, they were sold out with no immediate restock. If you overpay a little to get what you want, it’s not as bad, but overpaying and finding out you regret your purchase is tough.
     

    Robbie

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    Building if the fun part.
    FYI - buy more detent pins and springs than you need, when they fly out while building you will never find them!
     

    John_

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    Dave is right on, you could not pick a worse time to buy or build an AR. Supply and demand, just like ammo right now. Stripped lowers are going for anywhere from $75 to 125 right now, crazy prices.

    That DPMS AR15 selling for $500 new a couple years ago is commanding $700+ in the used market right now in very good condition. You just cannot walk into a store and purchase 5.56 ammo right now. Isn't happening. Ditto 9mm Luger.

    And if you are going to only build one or two, not really worth the expense for a few specialized tools you need to properly assemble an AR15, especially the upper assembly.
     

    MikeSlater

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    Dave is right on, you could not pick a worse time to buy or build an AR. Supply and demand, just like ammo right now. Stripped lowers are going for anywhere from $75 to 125 right now, crazy prices.

    That DPMS AR15 selling for $500 new a couple years ago is commanding $700+ in the used market right now in very good condition. You just cannot walk into a store and purchase 5.56 ammo right now. Isn't happening. Ditto 9mm Luger.

    And if you are going to only build one or two, not really worth the expense for a few specialized tools you need to properly assemble an AR15, especially the upper assembly.

    Any tools you buy to contruct a AR will end up being useful later on. Armor's wrench, punch set etc. You will eventually want to change something, buffer tube, trigger group etc. Nothing like building a AK where you need a whole shop full of new tools and jigs.
     
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    John_

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    Any tools you buy to contruct a AR will end up being useful later on. Armor's wrench, punch set etc. You will eventually want to change something, buffer tube, trigger group etc. Nothing like building a AK where you need a whole shop full of new tools and jigs.

    Well if you are going to do it right, you will need a bench vice, an upper receiver block, a quality barrel nut wrench/tool, torque wrench, small punches, starter punches for small roll pins, lubricant for the barrel nut/upper receiver threads, feeler gauges, go and no go head space gauges, and a proper hammer. I like many here have all of these tools, invested in them. If you plan on only assembling one or even two rifles, you would be a fool to purchase all of these. I probably have $500 tot in specialized tools, maybe more.

    Easier to find someone on the forum who has all the tools, has the expertise, is close to you and willing to do it or help you, for just a single rifle. Beer swap, or lunch, or maybe a small donation.

    Or purchase an assembled complete upper and a complete lower receiver unit and "pin together". Done. PSA still has that option avail, limited selections on the uppers right now tho. Many complete assembled lower receiver units "on the shelf" right now.
     
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    MikeSlater

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    I was mainly referring to just finishing out a stripped lower and slapping a built upper on it. I would say that building a upper from scratch would beyond what someone with no gunsmith experience would tackle anyway. If you have that kind of experience you already have the tools.
     

    John_

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    There was a guy here a number of years ago who used his $15 armorers wrench and a piece of 1x3" wood to install/tighten the barrel nut to upper receiver. No torque wrench, no receiver block, and a cheap imported armorers wrench....and insisted nobody needed more otherwise. I just had to laugh to myself. Check head space? Why? Check it with a mag and 20 rounds.

    Today many of the free float handguards have their own proprietary barrel nut. I'm a fan of the ALGs, they have their nut, shims, and specialized AL install tool (for $4). Noveske has theirs too, a thin 1 and 1/16" tool. Not many of the FF tubes today use a traditional GI barrel nut any longer.
     
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    DAVE_M

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    If I put together a list of all the tools, lubricants, greases, adhesives, and threadlockers I use to assemble a rifle, it’s well over $500. People are hesitant to spend $1000 on a rifle when $500 rifles exist. Nothing is worse than spending $1500 to assemble a rifle that would cost $500 from a shop.

    Don’t build unless you really want to and are okay with the investment.
     

    ozarkpugs

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    If you have an auto mechanic friend he can help you build an AR . Some people like to make it sound like an art but it's really simple mechanics . As far as which caliber goes the intended purpose will dictate that .. 223 w or 5.56 are usually realitivly inexpensive to feed and will surfice in a SD situation and with the right bullets can be effective on deer at close to moderate ranges . If you reload or are not into mag dumping and intend to hunt with it go 6.8 spc . Ruger and S&W both make good guns .

    Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk
     

    DAVE_M

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    If you have an auto mechanic friend he can help you build an AR . Some people like to make it sound like an art but it's really simple mechanics . As far as which caliber goes the intended purpose will dictate that .. 223 w or 5.56 are usually realitivly inexpensive to feed and will surfice in a SD situation and with the right bullets can be effective on deer at close to moderate ranges . If you reload or are not into mag dumping and intend to hunt with it go 6.8 spc . Ruger and S&W both make good guns .

    Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk

    Automotive Mechanics don't know a thing about assembling AR-15's unless they have experience and knowledge of assembling AR-15's.

    It is simple, when you do things the right way. Having your auto mechanic friend cobble a rifle together... is not the right way.
     

    ozarkpugs

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    Automotive Mechanics don't know a thing about assembling AR-15's unless they have experience and knowledge of assembling AR-15's.

    It is simple, when you do things the right way. Having your auto mechanic friend cobble a rifle together... is not the right way.
    I guess I should have said a mechanic that is a shooter , is knowledgeable of how firearms work and can follow directions . Seriously , nothing about building an AR is difficult . A 5th grader can lap an upper and the dreaded pivot pin launch can be avoided by inserting a multi hole 1/4 pivot pin in as a alignment tool . Putting hung pins on a door is more complicated . Most rails come with nuts with flats and don't have to be aligned and the torque range is from good-n-snug to good-n-tight . I have used a torque wrench to prove to several people I have helped on builds that most everyone can get close to the middle of the range with an open end wrench. Most mechanics have a vise ,brass hammer and all the punches you need . Mechanics understand proper alignment of tubes and the nessesity of sealing and probably has blue loctie and good synthetic oil on hand . If you get an under gassed barrel he can even open it up for you . That is the beauty of the AR platform even though it was not built by a tank mechanic It is simple mechanics . I for one would never be trust my vehicle to someone who could not build an AR .




    Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk
     

    John_

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    If you have an auto mechanic friend he can help you build an AR . Some people like to make it sound like an art but it's really simple mechanics . As far as which caliber goes the intended purpose will dictate that .. 223 w or 5.56 are usually realitivly inexpensive to feed and will surfice in a SD situation and with the right bullets can be effective on deer at close to moderate ranges . If you reload or are not into mag dumping and intend to hunt with it go 6.8 spc . Ruger and S&W both make good guns .

    Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk

    Yeah, that is how Colt and FN America assemble their rifles. They manufacture their precision parts and then haul em down to the local auto mechanic shop for assembly.

    Now I grant you it isn't rocket science and the lower assembly is a piece of cake, but wait til you scratch the lower using a regular automotive punch to start/drive in the bolt stop lever small roll pin.
     
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