ATF rules Q Honey Badger pistol an SBR

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  • Bosco

    We are the hammer
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    FYI there's another thread about the same thing here - https://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?193348-Bump-stock-Round-2

    I'll say the same thing I said in there. The images on the official Q Instagram show no pictures of the pistol brace being used as an actual brace. There are quite a few images and some videos of the pistol brace being up against shoulders. If the ATF was going after pistol braces, I imagine they would be sending letters to a ton of companies. To my knowledge, this is an isolated case, so it makes more sense to me that they see how Q markets their pistols and are going after them.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    I’ll just copy paste my reply to the other thread:
    Petty
    Stupid
    Senseless
    Hype


    https://youtu.be/tlMz2sCDCA4

    If the firearm is not being operated in a careless or dangerous manner, how does the ATF think they can dictate how you hold it? What’s next? Telling us what we can or can’t say? Or what we can or can’t think? Or eat or drink? Oh wait, New York has that covered already huh.
    At the end of the day it all boils down to one thing: SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

    They want us to believe that the government was formed to govern us...

    As to the title of this thread, the ATF does not write law, and even if they could, they can’t skip the process of how laws are written. I take it none of them ever watched the Schoolhouse rock cartoons...

    https://youtu.be/tyeJ55o3El0

    If I owned and operated Q, I’d just send the ATF that video as my reply...
     
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    John_

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    This will be the first step in the downfall of a "pistol brace"

    Q was notified by the ATF 8-3-20 to cease and desist concerning their Honey Badger pistol. So in 2 months after, I haven't heard or read of any other manufacturer receiving a cease and desist letter concerning AR pistols with braces. Don't you think if the ATF was going after AR15 pistols with braces, other manufacturers/assemblers would too have received ATF cease and desist letters? No one else in 60+ days?

    I mean it seems like a common sense deduction to me.
     

    rcm192

    Sic semper tyrannis
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    I bet it will get over turned especially since no other mfgs have been called out since Q got the notification letter in August. .....makes you wonder if Q did something to **** off someone in the alphabet crew or something.
     

    machinedrummer

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    Could just be the first domino to fall. What if Q fights back saying, * why isn’t the alphabet boys going after all the others*? The feds might let Q set off the firestorm. Just a theory. Then the feds could say they knew nothing about the others till Q brought it to their attention.
     

    Bosco

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    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/sb-tactical-stands-with-q-llc-against-atf-honey-badger-ruling/

    SB Tactical is standing with them which makes sense. There's plenty of talk that the pistol brace is also an issue because it extends too far to be used as a brace and has a place to rest your cheek. I don't own one so can't say for sure.

    This video shows someone using it with the pistol brace without it being extended. Not sure how far it goes when extended but I imagine it'd be pretty close to where your elbow bends.

    https://youtu.be/aNYYKrZNLmM?t=268

    This part of the video has it extended next to his arm to give an idea.

    https://youtu.be/aNYYKrZNLmM?t=254

    Guess we'll see what the ATF does next but if Biden gets elected things are gonna get crazy
     
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    GearFondler

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    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/sb-tactical-stands-with-q-llc-against-atf-honey-badger-ruling/

    SB Tactical is standing with them which makes sense. There's plenty of talk that the pistol brace is also an issue because it extends too far to be used as a brace and has a place to rest your cheek. I don't own one so can't say for sure.

    This video shows someone using it with the pistol brace without it being extended. Not sure how far it goes when extended but I imagine it'd be pretty close to where your elbow bends.

    https://youtu.be/aNYYKrZNLmM?t=268

    This part of the video has it extended next to his arm to give an idea.

    https://youtu.be/aNYYKrZNLmM?t=254

    Guess we'll see what the ATF does next but if Biden gets elected things are gonna get crazy
    LOP should not be the issue... And that brace has a way less usable cheek rest than most of the other braces made.

    9fe668f57bb23efead5b6ca4696bd25b.jpg
    bea0c49cce4b008aaa5a3fde586bac93.jpg
     
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    JCcypress

    Gun Trust Lawyer
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    - - - Updated - - -

    [video=youtube;7koDMnSksEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7koDMnSksEg&fbclid=IwAR3b0Be0CqjM89m4rEMHvsbUNlK46209V0VG1_NQF D18s9XLDbB33BYG57k[/video]
     

    Bosco

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    LOP should not be the issue... And that brace has a way less usable cheek rest than most of the other braces made.

    Glad someone diagramed it out. I was following a thread on AR15 with a bunch of theories and that was one of them but glad it's been squashed.
     

    GearFondler

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    Glad someone diagramed it out. I was following a thread on AR15 with a bunch of theories and that was one of them but glad it's been squashed.
    Except it still leaves the true reason completely unexplained which is ridiculous and totally unfair.
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Q was notified by the ATF 8-3-20 to cease and desist concerning their Honey Badger pistol. So in 2 months after, I haven't heard or read of any other manufacturer receiving a cease and desist letter concerning AR pistols with braces. Don't you think if the ATF was going after AR15 pistols with braces, other manufacturers/assemblers would too have received ATF cease and desist letters? No one else in 60+ days?

    I mean it seems like a common sense deduction to me.
    The ATF doesn’t always (read rarely here) do things that make sense. It’s possible that they’re electing to see how this little bite plays out before proceeding with any further action. I would never doubt they’re ready for a full assault on all pistol braces and a whole lot more. Don’t forget the past sins and FUBARS of the ATF my friend.
    I theorize that until someone openly challenges and defies the ATF’s ability to write laws, change laws, ignore laws, etc. and ultimately takes them to court and goes through the process of holding them accountable and forcing them to answer for their crimes, they will continue to operate in this illegal fashion. Yes, their actions are criminal. That’s what they call it when you act outside the law.
    The problem is, it’s not profitable for a private company to take on an entity with limitless resources (our tax dollars) even when there’s no doubt that the entity is in the wrong. Sooner or later someone will have to file suit against the ATF and go for it for them to be put in check.
    I said it during the bump stock ban and the guy in the video about the honey badger says it, the fact that no one put up much of a fight over the bumpstocks being classified as machine guns has ushered in this sort of crap from the ATF. They got their way with almost zero resistance. If we don’t care about them taking bump stocks, we should be ready to give up things we do care about. I own a few pistol braced AR type pistols. I never gave 2 shits about a bump stock but I care greatly about them being banned. It’s unconstitutional. You wanna pick and choose what parts of something to give a **** about and this is what happens. Eventually they’ll come for something you care about. Watch and see.
     
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    Bosco

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    Except it still leaves the true reason completely unexplained which is ridiculous and totally unfair.

    Well my other thought was how they marketed their pistols. They have an official Instagram where they post images of people using their firearms and have quite a few that look like the pistol brace is being used as a stock. I posted the below in the other thread about this subject. I couldn't find a single image of them advertising the pistol brace to be used properly. So maybe the ATF is just using them as an example to others that if they want to sell a pistol they should advertise it as a pistol? Other that that, who knows. I just figure if the ATF wanted to ban all braces we'd hear about more companies getting letters by now.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B60Wt29BqUd/
    https://www.instagram.com/p/B-anM6hhm87/
    https://www.instagram.com/p/B9vMtKOBysq/
    https://www.instagram.com/p/B6roSDahkwr/
    https://www.instagram.com/p/B5b-vucBnI3/
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz_UsRQhAFv/
     

    Magdump

    Don’t troll me bro!
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    Did anyone see the vid of the guy shooting the pistol with his feet?
    What about the AR pistols with the plain buffer tube sticking out the back? What if you shoulder one of those? What about the foam cover they make for the end of the buffer tube? If anyone is worried about how it looks to hold a firearm in any position with any part of the body then they got you good. You’ve swallowed their load of crap hook line and sinker. If the ATF decides that firing a pistol from the shoulder makes it a SBR, does that make it against the law? No, it doesnt. Because there are no laws that prevent you from doing so and there shouldn’t be. Because the ATF does not pass laws. They do create propaganda however, and they’re quite good at it.
     

    Bigchillin83

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    in there open letter where the atf clearly said you can sholder a brace...

    With respect to stabilizing braces, ATF has concluded that attaching the brace to a handgun as a forearm brace does not ‘make’ a short-barreled firearm because … The letter continues: *Therefore, an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device is not re-configured for use as a shoulder stock — even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder.*
     

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