Lets discuss AR-15 gas block installation techniques

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    ozarkpugs

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    Just Incase anyone is interested there are more than one way to get a dimple precicly where you want it .This is one way .First get block aligned then Chuck a bit backwards (or use a guide rod that barely fits) in the threads of block and lock the barrel down directly under the drill so that when raised and lowered the guide goes in and out of the threaded hole . Next you replace the bit with one barely smaller in diameter than threads and use it to start the dimple . Now you can remove the block and reindex barrel under the drill using small bit indentation as a guide and proceed with larger bit . Of course pre set depth before starting the drill . If you are not mechanically inclined enough to do it this way you can contact Magdump and ask nicely and he might let you borrow his designated tool .

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    John_

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    John_ It baffles me why you post questions on here when the only answers you accept are ones from keyboard commandos who use "experts" videos to show you how knowledgeable they are . Would it not save you and everyone a lot of time if you just googled " What does Dave_ M advise ? Or you could just private message him your question. Of course as you stated in an earlier s$/& post building a lower is a piece of cake for you so you will only need advice on uppers .

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    It was a very worthwhile discussion for me, I got the info/opinions I needed from the discussion. Mag, Dave, Perez, and a couple more who chimed in know what they are talking about. I learned from it, and I'm sure other members and perhaps novice AR assemblers here on BS did too going forward.

    Just my opinion, yours may be different, so be it.
     

    MOTOR51

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    John_ It baffles me why you post questions on here when the only answers you accept are ones from keyboard commandos who use "experts" videos to show you how knowledgeable they are . Would it not save you and everyone a lot of time if you just googled " What does Dave_ M advise ? Or you could just private message him your question. Of course as you stated in an earlier s$/& post building a lower is a piece of cake for you so you will only need advice on uppers .

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    Bingo. If you post anything outside of what someone else read or has been told be prepared to defend it for 26 pages. You will never hear “ I learned this in my last armorers school” from any of the expert builders on here. It would be a lot less entertaining if it would just be stated that “I read on blah blah blah that it’s best practice to do it this way”, or “a guy who builds for Geissele said this is the best way to do it”. Instead we get a bunch of hobby builders arguing over why their expert way is the best. I won’t say it’s not entertaining, or that I don’t enjoy posting “I told you so” but its the new BS. Carry on guys


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    MOTOR51

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    And I stand by my earlier reply to you. If you don't like discussion/dialog on an internet firearms forum, maybe you should try a Guns and Ammo magazine subscription to fulfill your needs. You might be happier that way.

    Sometimes discussion is spirited, to weed out fact from fiction, the BS. Now when the banter goes on, one on one for hours and hours (sometimes days), that is exclusively self serving imo.

    Lol, you do realize most of what your reading here could probably be found in guns and ammo right.


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    thperez1972

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    Actually I was trying to be nice and give you the benefit of the doubt. If you’re not just throwing offhand impromptu comments about what I’m saying, then you must be intentionally changing my statements around to make it look like I’m saying something completely different that fits your narrative. The problem with that, as I said, is my posts are there to compare to your very inaccurate rendition. Get it straight.

    I’m gonna add one last thing to this thread then bow out, and you guys can have as many last say posts as you need to feel right.
    I’m thinking at least 4 pages of this thread could have been filled with worthwhile posts (instead of a bunch of nonsense) if my very first post had just been taken at face value, where I stated what has worked for me, yet still offered the use of the tool in question.
    Maybe one day nobody will want to take the trouble to voice an opinion or offer any actual help to this community except for the few that berate those who do. Then you guys can have the place to yourselves.

    I have no doubt I've gotten it straight. And you are welcome to point out where I have inaccurately changed your statements.

    I did take your initial post at face value. You present yourself as an experienced builder. ("That’s been my method for too many builds to count.") You have a jig but you rarely use it. You tighten one of the screws on the gas block and drill the other.

    You don't mention a drill press. You don't mention removing the block before using the drill press. You don't mention using a bit smaller than the hole. If you're not aware, a jig is a device that guides a tool. So when you say you "just use the gas block as a jig" one can reasonably conclude you are using the gas block as a jig. So an inexperienced builder coming to this site looking for information sees someone claiming to be an experienced builder saying the dedicated jig is not needed (otherwise he would be using it) and he can just run the bit down the unclamped hole in the gas block.

    So the last thing someone should have done was to take your initial post at face value. And again, I'm not berating you. I'm explaining why one would want to do the opposite of what you do and use the jig.
     

    MOTOR51

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    I have no doubt I've gotten it straight. And you are welcome to point out where I have inaccurately changed your statements.

    I did take your initial post at face value. You present yourself as an experienced builder. ("That’s been my method for too many builds to count.") You have a jig but you rarely use it. You tighten one of the screws on the gas block and drill the other.

    You don't mention a drill press. You don't mention removing the block before using the drill press. You don't mention using a bit smaller than the hole. If you're not aware, a jig is a device that guides a tool. So when you say you "just use the gas block as a jig" one can reasonably conclude you are using the gas block as a jig. So an inexperienced builder coming to this site looking for information sees someone claiming to be an experienced builder saying the dedicated jig is not needed (otherwise he would be using it) and he can just run the bit down the unclamped hole in the gas block.

    So the last thing someone should have done was to take your initial post at face value. And again, I'm not berating you. I'm explaining why one would want to do the opposite of what you do and use the jig.

    This is the exact reason I suggested a while back that people giving technical advice should be vetted. I guess that idea stepped on a few toes around here and it was never mentioned again. How much better of a site would it be if someone giving U advice was actually a vetted armorer vs someone who plays one on the internet. Of course hobby builders could give advice but it would be known that it’s just advice.


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    thperez1972

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    This is the exact reason I suggested a while back that people giving technical advice should be vetted. I guess that idea stepped on a few toes around here and it was never mentioned again. How much better of a site would it be if someone giving U advice was actually a vetted armorer vs someone who plays one on the internet. Of course hobby builders could give advice but it would be known that it’s just advice.

    The idea was discussed. A couple of concerns were brought up. And it would create the need to remove anonymity, at least between the user and the site. Although I can't say I'm opposed to the site knowing the identity of the users.
     

    MOTOR51

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    The idea was discussed. A couple of concerns were brought up. And it would create the need to remove anonymity, at least between the user and the site. Although I can't say I'm opposed to the site knowing the identity of the users.

    It doesn’t have to be required but I’m sure there are members on here who are proud to be auto mechanics, armorers, carpenters etc ,who wouldn’t mind being recognized for their skills and offer professional advice. If you are on the internet your info is out there anyhow.


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    DAVE_M

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    I'm not opposed to having vetted armorers join the forum, but it's unlikely it will happen unless they choose to do so on their own. FWIW, nothing in this world is free, so I don't expect to see vetted armorers giving out free lessons on this site. I also don't believe I've seen anyone here claim to be an armorer, so that seems like wasted breath.

    I'm not sure removing anonymity would be the best course of action. I'm sure there are several people here that wouldn't care for that. Being a public forum, some people don't want there personal information plastered everywhere, but I digress.

    If anyone has the copy of guns & ammo that talks about building rifles, I'd like to have one.
     

    John_

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    Lol, you do realize most of what your reading here could probably be found in guns and ammo right.


    If anyone has the copy of guns & ammo that talks about building rifles, I'd like to have one.

    See Dave, that is the irony of it all. Motor51 is complaining about what he perceives as senseless BS posted here and here he is spreading it. I have never seen an issue of G & A where there is a detailed article on assembling an AR15. Step by step, how to properly assemble piece by piece, and best procedures/techniques.

    News flash: if you don't like a thread or it's specific content, don't read it or post in it. Pretty simple really.
     
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    MOTOR51

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    I'm not opposed to having vetted armorers join the forum, but it's unlikely it will happen unless they choose to do so on their own. FWIW, nothing in this world is free, so I don't expect to see vetted armorers giving out free lessons on this site. I also don't believe I've seen anyone here claim to be an armorer, so that seems like wasted breath.

    I'm not sure removing anonymity would be the best course of action. I'm sure there are several people here that wouldn't care for that. Being a public forum, some people don't want there personal information plastered everywhere, but I digress.

    If anyone has the copy of guns & ammo that talks about building rifles, I'd like to have one.

    Not sure they aren’t already members, and I’m not understanding the anonymity argument, the persons name would not be broadcast on open forums. Also, no one said it was mandatory so of course they would do so on their own. I also believe people do not mind helping other people out, they probably choose not to at the moment because of the repeated train wreck threads. Once again, it’s just a suggestion, if the owner and mods like the way the site is headed then great. Is the marketplace still the majority of the traffic on here still? Maybe there is a reason. That’s the last time I will bring it up though, let’s get back to the very informative information being discussed in this thread.


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    MOTOR51

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    See Dave, that is the irony of it all. Motor51 is complaining about what he perceives as senseless BS posted here and here he is spreading it. I have never seen an issue of G & A where there is a detailed article on assembling an AR15. Step by step, how to properly assemble piece by piece, and best procedures/techniques.

    News flash: if you don't like a thread or it's specific content, don't read it or post in it. Pretty simple really.

    I totally agree with you. I am at fault just as much as you, dave, mag, and Perez. Please accept my humble apology for disrupting this model discussion.


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    DAVE_M

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    As a non-vetted hobbyist, I just used about ten different tools to disassemble an upper for a barrel swap without damaging anything. I damaged something in the past and learned from it. I'm not being paid to put rifles together, so time isn't money for me. I can take my time and make sure I do things right.

    Relevant to this thread, the gas block set screws were knurled cup point screws installed with Loctite 271. About 15 seconds with a wood burner touching the screw is enough to heat up the threadlocker where it is easy to break the bond. Even though the barrel had seen enough rounds suppressed to heat up the handguard to the point you had to wear a thick glove, the Loctite held strong when cooled. Heating it up is enough to weaken it, but it will still hold enough to prevent vibration. If it's a concern, use Rocksett or the new high temp stuff from Vibratite.

    If you expand the photo, you can see where the threadlocker has pooled around the edge. It is more evident in the last photo.

    50534749196_b716018905_b.jpg

    50534749201_29ce0f1232_b.jpg

    50534022838_bf262bcbcf_b.jpg
     

    MOTOR51

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    See Dave, that is the irony of it all. Motor51 is complaining about what he perceives as senseless BS posted here and here he is spreading it. I have never seen an issue of G & A where there is a detailed article on assembling an AR15. Step by step, how to properly assemble piece by piece, and best procedures/techniques.

    News flash: if you don't like a thread or it's specific content, don't read it or post in it. Pretty simple really.

    I have to admit after you made the snarky comment about my use of guns and ammo I did a quick google search. I did find this article that may help if you are building a rifle in the future. If you google it you may find other informative articles as well.

    https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/accurize-your-ar-15/247749


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    MOTOR51

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    As a non-vetted hobbyist, I just used about ten different tools to disassemble an upper for a barrel swap without damaging anything. I damaged something in the past and learned from it. I'm not being paid to put rifles together, so time isn't money for me. I can take my time and make sure I do things right.

    Relevant to this thread, the gas block set screws were knurled cup point screws installed with Loctite 271. About 15 seconds with a wood burner touching the screw is enough to heat up the threadlocker where it is easy to break the bond. Even though the barrel had seen enough rounds suppressed to heat up the handguard to the point you had to wear a thick glove, the Loctite held strong when cooled. Heating it up is enough to weaken it, but it will still hold enough to prevent vibration. If it's a concern, use Rocksett or the new high temp stuff from Vibratite.

    If you expand the photo, you can see where the threadlocker has pooled around the edge. It is more evident in the last photo.

    50534749196_b716018905_b.jpg

    50534749201_29ce0f1232_b.jpg

    50534022838_bf262bcbcf_b.jpg

    This is perfect. It reminds me of the old bayoushooter before everyone was A holes.


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    DAVE_M

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    That's not a bad article, but it only talks about sleeving the barrel.

    And I suppose if anyone actually cares, for whatever reason, I am not a gunsmith, armorer, or anyone who is paid to work on guns. The majority of what I have learned is through personal experience, help from Chad Albrecht at SOTAR, reading a lot and having discussions with people like Alex Bohl at Trajectory Arms, and a lot of podcasts with guys like Chad, Roger Wang, Ash Hess, and many others that actually do build, work on, assemble, manufacturer, and even put their hands in the development of military documentation. I would gladly take an armorer's course from Chad or would have taken one from Will Larson years ago when he was still alive, but I have no real reason to, because I'm a hobbyist.

    There is a right way of doing things and a wrong way. The right way doesn't necessarily mean you must use specific brand tools, but there are only so many ways to accurately locate and drill a dimple 180 degrees from the gas port. 99% of the time, when you use good parts, everything should go together well, but there are times when you need to do your own QC and send things back or fix them yourself. I've already had to send parts back and I prefer to leave dimpling to the barrel manufacturer. Most quality barrels come pre-dimpled, but some have other methods to ensure gas block alignment.

    I'll help when I can, but I really don't care to argue anymore.
     
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    MOTOR51

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    That's not a bad article, but it only talks about sleeving the barrel.

    Yep. I didn’t spend much time googling specific things. Just wanted to help John out if he was interested.


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    John_

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    Yep. I didn’t spend much time googling specific things. Just wanted to help John out if he was interested.


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    So you post just any article you could find about the AR15. How about posting a link to an article on how to properly install a low profile gas block? Detailing which thread locker to use and why. Temperature constraints. And how to properly dimple the barrel. Jig or no jig?

    You perceived my comment from 10 minutes ago as snarky because you didn't like it. But it was the truth. You complain about endless BS here and state you can just google G&A to find out how to properly install a GB but here we are, still empty handed. More useless BS posts that you contributed to. Imagine that!
     

    DAVE_M

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    I'd also like to point out that no manufacturer is free of flaws and it's up to you to ensure everything is assembled properly.

    This is a barrel that I removed the gas block from a few months ago.

    49853476127_7951610d3a_b.jpg


    This is a barrel that I removed the gas block from today. Both barrels are from the same manufacturer and of the same profile and chambering.

    50534901057_56403f8ccb_b.jpg
     

    MOTOR51

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    So you post just any article you could find about the AR15. How about posting a link to an article on how to properly install a low profile gas block? Detailing which thread locker to use and why. Temperature constraints. And how to properly dimple the barrel. Jig or no jig?

    You perceived my comment from 10 minutes ago as snarky because you didn't like it. But it was the truth. You complain about endless BS here and state you can just google G&A to find out how to properly install a GB but here we are, still empty handed. More useless BS posts that you contributed to. Imagine that!

    Sir, in post #70 you said you didn’t know of G&A posting step by step on how to build an AR with pictures etc. I simply provided exactly that with a link. I did not look for a gas block install as you made a broad statement regarding G&A. If you did not want to know if G&A actually provided the info maybe you shouldn’t have made the comment. I’m not trying to argue with you so I’ll bow out. Good luck in your build. If you would like me to google anything else for you just shoot me a PM, I’ll check when i have a chance.


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