Chaos in Washington D.C.

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  • sandman7925

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    Fair enough. Only questioning why guns were being pointed at these protesters and not the ones actively burning cities down and throwing hard things at Cops. Or maybe we already know?

    Because of the building and the certain people in the building as previously said in this thread. How is that not glaringly obvious?
     

    thperez1972

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    Fair enough. Only questioning why guns were being pointed at these protesters and not the ones actively burning cities down and throwing hard things at Cops. Or maybe we already know?

    The guns were being held at the ready by the federal employees tasked with protecting the federal employees on the premises. They were pointed at the people who attempted to breech the barricade. The federal employees did not point their guns at the ones actively burning cities because the same set of conditions were not present.
     

    thperez1972

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    Because of the building and the certain people in the building as previously said in this thread. How is that not glaringly obvious?

    It is obvious. He's just ignoring the obvious because he doesn't want it to be obvious. He has a conclusion in his mind and he's going to ignore any information that does not support his conclusion.
     

    Horrible

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    Because of the building and the certain people in the building as previously said in this thread. How is that not glaringly obvious?
    Ok. Got it. Pols are more important than us pee-ons and beat cops in Oakland, Portland, Seattle.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It is obvious. He's just ignoring the obvious because he doesn't want it to be obvious. He has a conclusion in his mind and he's going to ignore any information that does not support his conclusion.
    Project much?
     

    DAVE_M

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    Why are the BLM/AntiFag riots treated differently?

    Are they?

    I believe LE were present and dispersed tear gas into the crowds several times.

    Did you know that a Capitol Police Officer was also killed at the riot?

    There is no point. Just like the idiots who stormed the capital got in there then didn't know what to do once they got there, we're 120 posts deep on this thread and nobody's said anything of substance on the issue. It's bluster.

    But a podium was stolen, cuz liberty and stuff.
     

    DAVE_M

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    "Mostly peaceful"

    5ff73f4cdafd5.image.jpg
     

    thperez1972

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    Capital police typically don’t patrol the streets of Oakland or Portland, but if they did, they might be getting pelted with rocks and bottles of frozen water bottles.

    maybe the woman that was shot at the capital should have tossed rocks at the cops? Seemed to work out for BLM/AntiFa in these other cities

    Fair enough. Only questioning why guns were being pointed at these protesters and not the ones actively burning cities down and throwing hard things at Cops. Or maybe we already know?

    Because of the building and the certain people in the building as previously said in this thread. How is that not glaringly obvious?

    It is obvious. He's just ignoring the obvious because he doesn't want it to be obvious. He has a conclusion in his mind and he's going to ignore any information that does not support his conclusion.

    Project much?

    It's not projection. It's observing. You asked why the capital police weren't pointing guns at a certain group of people burning businesses. But you asked that question right after you acknowledged the capital police don't patrol the area where that certain group of people were burning businesses. The two most likely reasons I could find for your question were either you were ignoring some of the information you provided because you wanted to make a false equivalence or you lack the proper intelligence to realize that you answered your own question before you even asked the question. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and said your were biased. Was I wrong? Should I have gone with the other option?
     
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    Bangswitch

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    "Mostly peaceful"

    5ff73f4cdafd5.image.jpg
    What when you were a kid you and your buddidn’t have bear spray wars like we did with bottle rockets?:mamoru:

    What happened Wednesday was complete and utter horse crap. Even if you believe it’s bogoloo time you have to know that was effing stupid. Their was no obtainable goal worthy of achieving by storming the capital building. It was an emoted response antagonized by anarchists. If there was a thinking man who really believed it were time to boogie, he would construct a proper plan of attack, however other than some voter fraud we are no less free today than we were prior to Election Day. So a thinking man would wait until it was impossible to remain peaceful and free (free-ish).

    Just in case people misunderstand me:

    It ain’t time to Boogaloo. And if it were, those idiots did it all wrong.

    If everyone could calm the hell down, spend more time on self improvement, and less time emoting on the Internet, the world would be a better place. And for the love of Christ people stop telling the Internet how much of this and that you have, when the boogaloo does finally get here (if it ever does) someone is going to shoot you in the face and take it.
     

    Horrible

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    It's not projection. It's observing. You asked why the capital police weren't pointing guns at a certain group of people burning businesses. But you asked that question right after you acknowledged the capital police don't patrol the area where that certain group of people were burning businesses. The two most likely reasons I could find for your question were either you were ignoring some of the information you provided because you wanted to make a false equivalence or you lack the proper intelligence to realize that you answered your own question before you even asked the question. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and said your were biased. Was I wrong? Should I have gone with the other option?

    My saying Capital police don’t patrol Oakland and Portland was because they are *Capital* police as in DC police, so somewhat of wise guy remark more than anything.

    Am I biased? Sure. I have my mind made up BLM protests are being treated completely different by our media, politicians, and even the police. The things that people have got away with this summer in cities like Portland, Seattle and NYC are insane. Police being attacked, police cruisers being set on fire, courthouses burned down, etc etc. I am sure that you have all seen the videos.

    So for people to come out and act shocked or angry about what happened on Wednesday in light of what had been going on over the past 6 months, I am not there yet.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-xV5hx39U&feature=youtu.be
     
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    Mannelite

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    I don't know why people put the capital on such a high pedestal. Thousands of businesses have been ransacked and destroyed over the past year. Protests everywhere, property destroyed, police assaulted. And everyone acts like its different this time because it happened at the capital which we are supposed to hold on a pedestal or something. The point of the government is to serve the people. Long story short, I don't consider looting the capital to be any worse than looting a foot locker or a mall, or any other business. They're saying give these people 20 years? What about those animals that destroyed that Target store? Did you see that thing? Or the wendy's that burned down, or all the other private property or even public statues that have been destroyed. That's ********. Its no different. Nancy Pelosi is no more high and mighty than a regular business owner. They literally let this happen by excusing months of destruction of property, now they want to gasp and clutch their pearls when the mob comes after their ass! ********!
    Edit: In fact, I would say they were being MOSTLY PEACEFUL!!!
     
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    southerncanuck

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    So for people to come out and act shocked or angry about what happened on Wednesday in light of what had been going on over the past 6 months, I am not there yet.

    I appreciate that it helps to create a smoke screen of irrelevance to try to justify the unpatriotic behavior of imbeciles, but if you're suggesting that people shouldn't be shocked or angry that the Capitol building was stormed for the first time in 200+ years, you might wanna crack a window and let some fresh air in...
     
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    WhereIsIt?

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    I don't know why people put the capital on such a high pedestal. Thousands of businesses have been ransacked and destroyed over the past year. Protests everywhere, property destroyed, police assaulted. And everyone acts like its different this time because it happened at the capital which we are supposed to hold on a pedestal or something. The point of the government is to serve the people. Long story short, I don't consider looting the capital to be any worse than looting a foot locker or a mall, or any other business. They're saying give these people 20 years? What about those animals that destroyed that Target store? Did you see that thing? Or the wendy's that burned down, or all the other private property or even public statues that have been destroyed. That's ********. Its no different. Nancy Pelosi is no more high and mighty than a regular business owner. They literally let this happen by excusing months of destruction of property, now they want to gasp and clutch their pearls when the mob comes after their ass! ********!
    Edit: In fact, I would say they were being MOSTLY PEACEFUL!!!

    Capital building has people to protect it and it was used. If Target or any other business wanted to hire protection that is their choice. Just the same as some owners who stood their ground and weren't messed with.
     

    thperez1972

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    My saying Capital police don’t patrol Oakland and Portland was because they are *Capital* police as in DC police, so somewhat of wise guy remark more than anything.

    Am I biased? Sure. I have my mind made up BLM protests are being treated completely different by our media, politicians, and even the police. The things that people have got away with this summer in cities like Portland, Seattle and NYC are insane. Police being attacked, police cruisers being set on fire, courthouses burned down, etc etc. I am sure that you have all seen the videos.

    So for people to come out and act shocked or angry about what happened on Wednesday in light of what had been going on over the past 6 months, I am not there yet.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ-xV5hx39U&feature=youtu.be

    I have seen what's been going on. But that doesn't mean I'm going lump different circumstances together as if they are the same thing. The capital is not the same thing as a Target. It's not even the same thing as a local police station. The local police in a lot of those cities have been/are being used as pawns by the politicians. In Portland, the US Marshals deputized local police as federal agents. If those officers were attacked, the feds had jurisdiction and would arrest and prosecute the offenders. Otherwise, prosecution was left up to the local politicians. As we know, a number of them were not accepting charges. From the beginning, there was a difference between how federal law enforcement and local law enforcement were able to do their job. So comparing incidents being handled by local police and by federal police is apples to oranges. There were politicians in the capital building. If the protection detail had not acted, if he had let the woman get into the area, how long before a second person came in. Then a third. And so on until the protection detain had to retreat and give up more ground. Do you feel the capital police officer should have allowed the mob access to the politicians?

    Portland mayor spars with US on deputized police officers
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/portland-asks-us-rescind-deputization-city-police-73343932
     

    Horrible

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    I have seen what's been going on. But that doesn't mean I'm going lump different circumstances together as if they are the same thing. The capital is not the same thing as a Target. It's not even the same thing as a local police station. The local police in a lot of those cities have been/are being used as pawns by the politicians. In Portland, the US Marshals deputized local police as federal agents. If those officers were attacked, the feds had jurisdiction and would arrest and prosecute the offenders. Otherwise, prosecution was left up to the local politicians. As we know, a number of them were not accepting charges. From the beginning, there was a difference between how federal law enforcement and local law enforcement were able to do their job. So comparing incidents being handled by local police and by federal police is apples to oranges. There were politicians in the capital building. If the protection detail had not acted, if he had let the woman get into the area, how long before a second person came in. Then a third. And so on until the protection detain had to retreat and give up more ground. Do you feel the capital police officer should have allowed the mob access to the politicians?

    Portland mayor spars with US on deputized police officers
    https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/portland-asks-us-rescind-deputization-city-police-73343932
    Distinction without a difference. Local police responded to this as well. You can try and tell me that the lawlessness that has been tolerated by, nay egged on and justified by our media, political class, Hollywood, etc didn’t embolden people to do what they did on Wednesday then I will have to disagree with you. Selective enforcement of law creates nothing but chaos. And here we are

    not justifying anything as what happened was terrible and accomplished zilch but I am not surprised
     

    thperez1972

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    Distinction without a difference. Local police responded to this as well. You can try and tell me that the lawlessness that has been tolerated by, nay egged on and justified by our media, political class, Hollywood, etc didn’t embolden people to do what they did on Wednesday then I will have to disagree with you. Selective enforcement of law creates nothing but chaos. And here we are

    not justifying anything as what happened was terrible and accomplished zilch but I am not surprised

    They did respond as well. But their roles, and their reactions, were not the same. To say there was no difference between the capital police and the local police simply because they were both in the same area is disingenuous.
     

    Magdump

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    Crime is crime anywhere in the US. Riots are riots anywhere in the US. Arson is arson no matter what city you’re in. Of course BLM Rioters were treated differently, but mostly by the media and politicians of many levels, and yes, by the cops that let it happen. It wasn’t many weeks ago that cops in New York were getting their asses hosed and not much happened. Of course there’s a huge double standard that people can choose to ignore but they see it and understand it exists. Today they wanna crucify Trump for ‘inciting riots’ when how many months ago was it(?) that Kamala Harris on national TV told Cobert that the lefty BLM, Antifa and whoever else rioters weren’t gonna stop anytime soon and shouldn’t stop. Bet nobody will even dare accuse her of inciting riots. Yes, double standards. They exist.
    I don’t think it mattered what side of the fence the deceased came from, I think the fed decided he was gonna shoot the first person to breech that door regardless of who they were. I also think we can safely assume he believed the crowd to be the same crowd that was ‘storming the capital’ and by that I mean disenfranchised Trump voters, so I believe he knew full well who he was killing, although we can’t say that knowledge played a role in his choice to kill. Until Antifa or BLM or those Not Facking Around idiots storm a building full of high ranking officials we may never know how they’ll be treated but I’m pretty sure they won’t be allowed to enter the chambers while Congress is in session or any other gathering of elites.
    Some questions that I would ask:
    Did the deceased actually see or hear the fed with the gun pointed at her? We don’t know for certain. Given the circumstances I believe it’s quite plausible that she did not, or that she did not in time. For all we know she was already on the retreat when she ate that bullet. Impact from the shot is not likely what sent her flying backward to the floor. It very well could be that she was attempting to retreat when she was shot and propelled herself backward either just before or simultaneous to the shot. I have a hard time believing she was so close to being through the door when she was shot and didn’t wind up either caught in the door or falling onto the floor on the other side. I don’t see her at all in the video until after the shot. For all we know only her neck and face were visible to the shooter. And she wasn’t even in the opening of the door’s window (it appears to be a broken window in the door) when she was shot.
    Will we ever be given any info on the actual shooter? Who knows. But I’m willing to bet there won’t be any question whether or not it was justified. It won’t even come up for discussion.
     

    buttanic

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    From a poster on M4 .net.

    I am willing to concede that the plain clothes officer who shot Ashli Babbitt probably had permission to shoot her based on the proximity of a VIP. My opposition to this course of action is based on the circumstances presented by observing multiple audio/video recordings of the events leading up to the shooting (for about 30 minutes prior), and multiple viewings of each of several audio/video recordings of the immediate area prior to the shooting, and the shooting itself.

    I observed multiple heavily armed officers coming up the stairway to extract two officers from the protest side of the barricaded doors. Almost the second they all descended the stairwell, Ashli Babbitt hopped up on the window frame and attempted to enter the foyer beyond. The only thing in her hands were the frame of the broken out window. Immediately a plain clothed officer emerges from the recess on the left and shot her in the neck from about 6-7’ away. She immediately fell backwards out of the window frame.

    The officers who had descended the stairwell to clear the line of fire, almost immediately returned to the top of the stairs at her side on the floor. No observable or audible warnings are noted prior to shooting her that lethal force was authorized. Granted it was loud and garbled with so many people speaking, but definitely no command voice was utilized to warn anyone.

    I also take into account that the six armed officers on the protest side of the barricaded doorway could’ve easily formed a phalanx to prevent anyone from entering. Especially knowing they had armed agents to cover them from the other side of the barricade.

    These are the observable facts that I’ve used to formulate my opinion of this shooting. It was an ambush, plain and simple. Was it effective? Absolutely. Was it excessive? Absolutely. They didn’t try any other available means of preventing protesters from gaining access to their principle. The went immediately to shooting the first person they could, because it sent a message.

    I believe the shot was deliberate and intended, of not outright orchestrated. I’m open to facts and evidence disputing this opinion, but not emotion and conjecture. Nothing I saw in the preceding 30 minutes indicated a physical threat to the lawmakers, much less lethal force. Oklahoma Representative MarkWayne Mullin even communicated with protesters through a broken panel and dissuaded them from breaching the chamber itself.

    I have no doubt that this will be ruled an acceptable use of force from the perspective of law and policy, simply because the lives of government VIP’s are considered more important than the unwashed masses. No need to articulate a clear and present danger, much less imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. If someone wants to talk to the Speaker of the House that she doesn’t want to see or hear, their lives are forfeit if they don’t tuck tail and leave.

    This woman doesn’t appear to have made any threats (at least in evidence), had any weapons or attempts to gain physical access to the Speaker (and whosoever else was hiding back there behind her armed security detail). No motive, intent or opportunity shown, and yet their first choice was to shoot her dead. She was not a lone aggressor trying to harm a principal. She was a disenfranchised American trying to be heard, when the system was laid out to prevent her from being heard.

    Call it a legal shoot if you must, but it’s a bad shoot regardless. It was immoral, unethical and unwarranted. I say that as someone with a combined total of 37 years experience in protection. From USMC combat mos, to private security, to contract security on classified DoD projects, 12 years of law enforcement, PSD work on a 7 man detail which included retired USSS agents, and almost 20 years in federal security operations.

    I could not and would not have shot that woman under those circumstances. I can’t understand the mindset of any “professional” who would. We are not subjects and the Speaker is not a royal monarch. What happened was a travesty and an injustice. Her rights were violated because the anointed ones don’t want to hear what she had to say.

    As an American citizen first and foremost, this is the only way I can look at it. Everything I’ve ever learned in umpteen classes on law, policy, use of force and constitutional protections tell me this was wrong. None of the many Oaths I’ve sworn included loyalty to a person or title, and certainly not to the point of killing an American citizen not posing an imminent threat.

    If you still have a different opinion, fine. Just don’t tell me my position is flawed if you can’t articulate more than just “she shouldn’t have been where she was and she wouldn’t have been shot”. That’s not the America I’ve sworn to defend.
     

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