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  1. #11
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFraz View Post
    The whole idea that the election was stolen is perpetuated by the ramblings of a mad man that for the life of me I cannot understand why so many people unquestioningly follow him. You know the hardest thing about conspiracies? Keeping them secret.
    The more people involved, the harder it is to keep secret. For example, Snowden in the Obama administration. Eventually someone is going to produce evidence that something wrong is going on.
    How much actual evidence, and I mean credible evidence has been brought to court to prove any widespread voter fraud? Spoiler alert! 0
    This administration talks and talks in front of cameras but when it really counts, in a court of law (aka the constitution) they have ZERO credible [U evidence[/U].
    I mean think about it. In a time where Republicans control the executive branch, senate, and DOJ do the liberals really have the power or money to rig an election?
    Its not secret though! There are hours and hours of witness, signed affidavit witnesses, that came forward to testify, they were only able to make it to committee or subcommittee hearings because every court rejected to even look at the evidence based on "Standing", The evidence and claims were never reviewed by a court. Yet its not being kept a secret, tons of people have come forward and spoken up.

  2. #12
    Marksman

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    For anyone still thinking "Why hasn't anyone come forward" "How would they keep this a secret" "Surely someone would have said something"
    �� LIVE: Michigan State Senate Committee on Oversight Holds Hearing on Election Issues 12/1/20 - YouTube
    here is 7 and 1/2 hours of testimony of people coming forward. This was from one hearing, there are multiple like this. Literally hundreds of witnesses whose job it was to watch the polls.

  3. #13
    Ready, Shoot, Aim!

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    My thoughts -- I wrote and posted this on another forum I frequent:

    Watching everything the past couple of years and brushing up on some of my old Civics and Government classes (yeah, I was a C student!) I have some observations that I’d like to share. First and foremost, WHY have we gotten to a point where we are so afraid of our Federal Government and on edge because the House, Senate, Supreme Court and President are either Democrats or Republicans? Simple answer is because our Federal government has WAYYYY too much power, much more than our Founding Fathers ever imagined. You see, a state of the United States is one of the 50 constituent entities that SHARES its sovereignty with the federal government, not the other way around!! For those of you who were “C” students like me, Sovereignty is the authority of a state to govern itself. States set up their own rules so if you don’t like the way one State is conducting business you can move to another one. BUT now we have the Federal government mandating national law to the point where states are losing their sovereignty, and this was NEVER the intent of the Federal Government. Furthermore, we have some states who want to give up their sovereignty when it comes to the electoral college and give all their electoral votes to whomever wins the national popular vote! (scary). So, think about the power our Federal Government has over the states and why this makes people so paranoid about Federal elections. Ask yourself, “What is your state doing to preserve their sovereignty”? Look hard at what your State and Local governments are doing. Question them. Get involved. Remind all of the elected politicians that they work for us!

  4. #14
    Marksman

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  5. #15
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by CatCam View Post
    My thoughts -- I wrote and posted this on another forum I frequent:

    Watching everything the past couple of years and brushing up on some of my old Civics and Government classes (yeah, I was a C student!) I have some observations that I’d like to share. First and foremost, WHY have we gotten to a point where we are so afraid of our Federal Government and on edge because the House, Senate, Supreme Court and President are either Democrats or Republicans? Simple answer is because our Federal government has WAYYYY too much power, much more than our Founding Fathers ever imagined. You see, a state of the United States is one of the 50 constituent entities that SHARES its sovereignty with the federal government, not the other way around!! For those of you who were *C* students like me, Sovereignty is the authority of a state to govern itself. States set up their own rules so if you don’t like the way one State is conducting business you can move to another one. BUT now we have the Federal government mandating national law to the point where states are losing their sovereignty, and this was NEVER the intent of the Federal Government. Furthermore, we have some states who want to give up their sovereignty when it comes to the electoral college and give all their electoral votes to whomever wins the national popular vote! (scary). So, think about the power our Federal Government has over the states and why this makes people so paranoid about Federal elections. Ask yourself, *What is your state doing to preserve their sovereignty*? Look hard at what your State and Local governments are doing. Question them. Get involved. Remind all of the elected politicians that they work for us!
    Good points! I agree the Country is too big with too much top down control.

  6. #16
    Marksman

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    If there is ever another president that isn't part of the political crowd or career politician, you will see the same exact action against him/her. Regardless of their name.

    The system was never intended to or thought to work in such a way. The central power has too much control. The big picture can be used to unite us, but it cant be jammed with all the small things. With having so much control, it makes the stakes that much higher for those governed which results in the division we see today. We are pitted against one another because so much can be, is, affected by those in DC.

    Never has there been such a vast area of land, with so many differing; ideologies, needs, wants or cultures governed by a government that was not authoritarian in nature. You can place the landmass of the US over any part of the world and the same space is either vast areas of nearly non populated area or numerous nations.

  7. #17
    Don’t troll me bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighReloader View Post

    .......But I for damn sure won't miss Donald Trump, to whom I lost more gun rights than I ever lost to Obama.

    Mike
    Lol, right now Biden is nodding and saying, ‘Hold my beer’.

    Bit of a read, but it’s an accurate outline as to how Trump single handedly gutted the second amendment. Please take that description with as much sarcasm as your mind will allow.

    https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...t-trump-so-far
    Last edited by Magdump; January 9th, 2021 at 09:19 PM.
    Doesn’t play well with TROLLS...

  8. #18
    Time Traveler

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    "I've tried to find actual proof of the massive voter fraud the die hard Trumpers believe in. I can't find it, all I find is wild Alex Jones type stuff."

    A bank being robbed of a smaller portion is a lesser crime? One tenth of an inch of rain is not rainfall? Does a wave need to be massive to capsize a boat? Why must the fraud be massive when the mathematical tabulation needs only a specific amount to produce a result? I know, because the media keeps using those phrases... and after enough times you're compelled.

    The problem from my armchair is -many have fallen victim to the the lies of pop culture and it's their pop culture (global) world that's crumbling and will require a government to "step in". The America I belong to is alive and well and from all indications, the government needs me (payer) MUCH MORE than I need it (spender)! So sorry to inform you that Trumper isn't applicable aside from being the ONLY AVAILABLE choice over another round of Clintons over 4 years ago. I knew from people that actually know him that Trump was an asshat, but that's what you get with some folks. He knows what he knows and is what he is. That some have taken his representation (or lack of) to the extreme is understandable, considering the pathetic nature and posturing of a Godless, media driven pop culture. Best of luck in your efforts of identifying the sane and the insane, and finding your kinship with the ones you deem worthy and steering clear of the ones you disagree with (cancel culture).
    Last edited by foz1359; January 9th, 2021 at 11:05 PM.

  9. #19
    Time Traveler

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    I think anyone who believes there is zero evidence of voter fraud has been hoodwinked.[/QUOTE]

    It must be that new common core math Z -zero isn't really zero anymore -it can be another number and depends on who's reporting it ...I mean if Brooke Baldwin on CNN tells me there's no credible evidence of voter fraud and she's wearing that really short blue skirt and stilettos, I'm like for real -TRUMP is a liar and anyone that voted for him is rascist!
    BUT ...if I listen to a female Indian immgrant turned US citizen with several degrees in information technology, a business and a family testify before a state committee that she witnessed a discussion about an election site manager manipulating the software and Dominion machines ...AND Brooke Balwin ain't listenin' to me? I'm probably going to stand up for my fellow American (especially the female folk) and dare anyone to talk shit about her lest they receive a rapid pop knot delivery via my right (pun intended) fist. Hypothetically speaking, of course.
    Last edited by foz1359; January 9th, 2021 at 11:05 PM.

  10. #20
    Time Traveler

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOTOR51 View Post
    So what’s keeping these average Joe people counting votes from coming forward and making huge amounts of money for their stories? I find it hard to believe that they can all keep a secret that big. The poll workers weren’t CIA operatives, they were just workers. Also find it hard to believe that All of those involved in this fraud never recorded the bosses ordering them to commit fraud on such a grand scale. They don’t love Biden or hate Trump enough to turn down life changing pay days. I’m sure fraud existed and I’m sure it does in most elections but not to the scale we are being led to believe.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I'll highlight what you said...

    1. Average people counting votes and certainly NOT showing up expecting to witness what they witnessed! And who among them would've been, in that moment, capable of capturing, recording, preserving an act of election fraud? I have in my lifetime witnessed $5 bills stapled to sample ballots and handed out to the poor folks being hauled to the poll in stretch vans. I was a volunteer and did not anticipate anything like this, nor did I bring a video camera (circa 1995) to record it. Should I have had a video camera with me and anticipated voter fraud or is it hard to believe that I was (still am) an average man volunteering to serve my community?
    2. "I find it hard to believe" -that's on you and doesn't change truth. You may not believe the $5 bill story. It's true.
    3. Why would you believe they are keeping a single secret? The manipulation of an major election requires thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of "secrets" to be successful. I kept my knowledge of the $5 fraud a secret for the better part of 30 years and only now am telling of it. I was young, had a young family, a new business, wanted to "fit in" among my peers so I pretended it didn't happen. It freaked me out -all 6'2" 210lbs, to my core. I held a belief that elections were fair, that belief ended that day.
    4. When was the last time you showed up to work ready to record your boss committing fraud? You think they had time to plan this and knew when it would happen? You mean they should've alerted the media?
    5. Why are you sure fraud existed in the 2020 presidential election? Where is your proof?
    6. Why are you sure fraud exists in most elections? Where is your proof?
    7. What is the exact scale of fraud required to mathematically sway a tabulation of votes in an election so that one wins and another does not?
    8. If you're able to determine the exact scale of fraud mathematically required to sway an election, what difference does a personal belief in any scale to the contrary matter?

    Don't bother answering any of the above as your answers were clear before I posed the questions. Please pass the antifreeze, I'm parched.
    Last edited by foz1359; January 9th, 2021 at 11:09 PM.

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