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  1. #11
    La. CHP Instructor #409

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon64 View Post
    Most people who buy new pistols have no idea what they are buying. Striker fire/polymer pistols are cheaper to make. So when you average consumer wants a 9mm they are going to grab the $300 Shield over the $1200 double action Sig. Glock and MP types shoot great and are reliable but I would never stick one near my body with a round in the chamber. Same goes for a 1911 cocked and locked. Not going near me.

    Maybe I am overly cautious because I was taught gun safety from my father who accidentally shot himself with a pistol. His learn from mistakes caution might have been transferred to me.
    If I am in the shower or in bed sleeping I have a striker fired pistol within reach and have one on me at any other time and have done so for many years.

  2. #12
    tactical hangover

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    Yep, reason HK offered the striker fired stuff ..

  3. #13
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAVE_M View Post
    Iím curious what the culprit is this time.

    The prior incident was caused by a modified holster made for a different firearm.
    I believe that in the incident to which you were referring the discharge came as the gun was being holstered, as in the trigger was pressed back as the gun was forced downwards.

    In this case he reports the gun fired as he placed his hand on the gun, which was already holstered. I suppose a holster problem could still be the cause, if the gun wasn't fully in the holster and got pushed further when he obtained his grip. BUT, I'm still betting on his finger pulling the trigger as he started his draw.
    __________________________________________________ ______
    Smarter than the average bear.
    ___________________________
    For some people, their gun is a tool, and they are the weapon.
    For others, their gun is a weapon, and they are the tool.
    __________________________________________________ ______

  4. #14
    Marksman

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    Iím noticing none of these incidents happen without someoneís hand on the gun. Are there any reports of one firing while laying on a night stand?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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  5. #15
    Marksman

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    Striker pins don't magically move past trigger bars. Either there's a defective part in the gun (which an examination by a qualified armorer would quickly reveal), or the trigger was somehow manipulated. The operator may not have intended to manipulate the trigger, but I'm betting dollars to donuts that he did.

    Still, it seems to be all the rage to go to court and blame everyone else these days.

    Mike
    ΦΒΚ. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

  6. #16
    Marksman

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    Pre-loaded striker

    Quote Originally Posted by DAVE_M View Post
    Not all Striker fired pistols have preloaded strikers.
    From my understanding is that Glock is not fully loaded, but partially loaded, and the pulling of the trigger completes the *cocking* of the striker and ultimately releases it at the break.

    i think the Kahr, & Taurus Operate the same way, vs. a Sig P320 which is fully cocked. Among many others of course.

    Thinking the Hellcat is as well, not sure, as I have never disassembled one. (Fully loaded) Why I got the 43X over the Hellcat. Glock reliability and S15 mags too, along with the longer grip just felt better. The Striker thing was my deciding factor.

    Am I right on this?
    Last edited by Martman300; February 22nd, 2021 at 07:47 PM.

  7. #17
    _________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martman300 View Post
    From my understanding is that Glock is not fully loaded, but partially loaded, and the pulling of the trigger completes the *cocking* of the striker and ultimately releases it at the break.

    i think the Kahr, & Taurus Operate the same way, vs. a Sig P320 which is fully cocked. Among many others of course.

    Thinking the Hellcat is as well, not sure, as I have never disassembled one.

    Am I right on this?
    No.

    There is no *cocking* on a Glock. Unlike striker fired pistol which have sears, Glock strikers rest on the striker safety block (plunger). It’s at a resting position and cannot fire unless the striker block is moved. As you pull the trigger, there is some slack. When the slack is removed, the trigger bar begins to engage the striker block, pushing it upwards. At the same time, the trigger bar is beginning the push the striker rearward, compressing the striker spring. When the trigger is pulled to the *wall* it has reached the end of its travel and when pulled through the break, the trigger bar drops and clears the striker allowing the pistol to fire.

    On an M&P, the striker is preloaded and engaged on a sear. As the trigger is pulled, the trigger bar begins to engage the striker block. When it reaches a certain point, the sear drops out of the way and allows the striker to pass and firing the pistol.

    Both are safe. Neither will fire when dropped. You MUST pull the trigger for them to fire.

  8. #18
    _________

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    When Slatowski "placed his hand on the pistol grip to draw it out of his holster, the weapon fired," according to the lawsuit.
    It's possible and obstruction was in the holster and it was not fully seated in the holster. Safariland ALS holsters lock into the ejection port, but there is some wiggle room. If it was not fully seated and there was an obstruction, it could have had the trigger to the rear far enough that any movement would fire it. Alternatively, there is a high possibility this was an ND by the shooter placing his finger on the trigger as he drew and ultimately shot himself.

    As far as the Canadian incident goes, it was a big stink over someone using the wrong holster.

    NEWINGTON, N.H., (February 5, 2021) – SIG SAUER is working with Canadian Special Operations Forces Command (CANSOFCOM) to resolve an incident involving the unintended discharge of a P320. An inaccurate and incomplete report of this incident was recently published in the Canadian media that called into question the safety of the P320. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements.

    The firearm involved has been extensively tested by SIG SAUER and it has been determined to be safe. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a P320. The use of a modified P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.

    The SIG SAUER P320 is among the most rigorously vetted pistols in the market. The P320 meets and exceeds all US safety standards and global military and law enforcement protocols, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI), National Institute of Justice (NIJ), and Department of Justice (DOJ). The P320 is one of the most innovative and sought-after pistols in the firearms market, and the pistol of choice for all branches of the United States Military (M17/M18), along with numerous law enforcement agencies and other military units worldwide.

  9. #19
    On Target

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    Triggers are easy to accidentally pull. Esp buy untrained people and still easy by people who have experience. My father shot himself holstering a Dan Wesson 357 with a 3.5 lb double action. Was putting it in the holster and it got hooked on the holster strap and BAM! Don't like the idea of "Just don't touch the trigger" It is like walking around with a gun off safety. The safest is a heavy manual first pull then single action there after for a pistol. Some of the double single actions are 14lb on the manual pull. Does not matter in self defense since the target is usually less than 10 feet away.

  10. #20
    Donít troll me bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeon64 View Post
    This is why I hate striker fire pistols. Give me double action single action any day. Not walking around with a pistol that is always cocked. Why I choose CZ 75s, sig p220, and older Smith semi's.
    More of mine are hammer fired as well. I favor the FNX9 over the 509, I donít own a striker fired Sig, the only pistols I own without safeties are Glocks and now Iím finding out safeties donít matter in many pistols when it comes to problems with them firing on the drop or without a pull of the trigger. I prefer exposed hammer pistols as well. And what pistol was that dancing FBI fool packing? Do we know he pulled the trigger? Maybe here nor there but this thread made me think about it.
    Do people prefer striker fired over hammer fired? Or is it that more of those are produced and sold? Cheaper perhaps? Easier to operate? None of that influences my purchases, but Iím sure it influences other folks. I can honestly say that regardless of the true reason this event occurred, it occurred. And thatís enough reason for me to not want a 320. There are too many other equal and better pistols out there for me to worry about one that I donít trust.
    Even if itís just a risky predisposition for user error, as in the self shootings with Glocks. Theyíve happened to law enforcement on a few occasions and it always seems to be dependent on something touching that trigger. Carrying a Glock everyday would force me to carry in a way that Iím not accustomed and do not feel comfortable, which is without a round in the chamber. Every person on this forum can say that those discharges and injuries were 100% due to user error and shake their head and say that the victims were just inept and careless and that would never happen to me, until they shoot themselves in the nut sack. Then the narrative will change to that trigger and no safety being the culprit. Think about it. Weíve all seen the videos or heard the stories. Do you think those LEO Glock fans felt the same way about a Glock after they were shot? I bet they all spouted off about booger hook control and common sense til the bullet hit the bone, huh. And what about that trigger safety? No way the gun could possibly discharge until you have your finger on the trigger and intend to fire... or attempt to holster the gun, or wear the wrong clothing, or get in a hurry with your seatbelt, or scramble to pick your gun up off the dance floor.
    At the end of the day it doesnít matter to me what the root cause of this or the other stated unintended discharge was, but that it happened and can happen. Thatís enough for me to write off the 320.
    Doesnít play well with TROLLS...

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