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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    Sorry to disagree with you but I did not make up my mind until I watched a few more videos, which was after posting the thread. I think there are enough stories of people being ripped off in those videos to override any advice I’ve read here by a long shot. The 3 vids I posted and what I’ve said here being completely ignored is further confirmation of that. You think what you think. I think you just want to disagree. Truthfully, you have definitely contributed to my decision. Thank you.
    So, how is it so many people have had problems with ‘bank boxes’ but chances are basically zero that I’d have a problem with mine? Why does my contract completely excuse the bank from any liability if something happens to my property including a disappearance? I asked if what I heard was correct, that safe deposit boxes are not exactly safe. Regardless of what you think about my mind being made up, I posed a question. What does it matter if I already have formed an opinion? Are you judging me for asking for seeking a second opinion?
    Tell us more about how there are zero problems with bank safe deposit boxes tho, please. Maybe show us something credible to debunk the 3 vids I’ve posted?
    In literally ANY case in life, you can find outliers. Outliers do not represent the majority and are not indicate of a failed system. Just because a few people have had problems with their boxes does not measurably raise the risk to a normal person.

    Most of the folks who think that banks stole their things either lost it themselves or had their significant other take it.

    Why does a bank have disclaimers like that? Easy. Insurance. Everyone has disclaimers about everything. If you put something in a box in a building, you have to accept the risk of the building flooding or catching on fire.
    -- Austin

    "There is no "i" in team but there is in win. "
    --Michael Jordan


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  2. #22
    Donít troll me bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AustinBR View Post
    In literally ANY case in life, you can find outliers. Outliers do not represent the majority and are not indicate of a failed system. Just because a few people have had problems with their boxes does not measurably raise the risk to a normal person.

    Most of the folks who think that banks stole their things either lost it themselves or had their significant other take it.

    Why does a bank have disclaimers like that? Easy. Insurance. Everyone has disclaimers about everything. If you put something in a box in a building, you have to accept the risk of the building flooding or catching on fire.
    So it’s your belief that something placed in a bank safe deposit box is safe from theft or loss?

    https://youtu.be/qVfpxJVY6-Q

    https://youtu.be/Ut9a1lVP344

    https://youtu.be/2NXLT39Xerk
    Last edited by Magdump; April 15th, 2021 at 11:11 AM.
    Doesnít play well with TROLLS...

  3. #23
    LEO

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighReloader View Post
    Take a deep breath.

    Storing something in a safety deposit box doesn't make it immune to a search warrant. Whatever evidence was presented was compelling enough to convince a judge that a search warrant was in order. So if you have a beef with this, it's probably the judge you need to take it up with, and not the law enforcement agency that executed the search warrant. It sounds like there might be some follow-up lawsuits to this particular case, so wrongs on the part of the government may yet be addressed.

    This had nothing to do with a tin foil hat "mass asset forfeiture" conspiracy. This had to do with a lot of drug trafficking and the proceeds of crime. This particular lock box company was apparently a hive for that sort of activity. It's not good that an innocent's possessions were swept up in this, but as I said before ... some forethought and good judgment might have suggested that this wasn't the best place to keep $60,000 in cash, gold, silver, and a vehicle title.

    Here's a better way to frame this: would YOU take your most valuable possessions to a private company in a strip mall for storage? I sure wouldn't.

    None of this has anything to do with a more traditional safety deposit box in a financial institution—where one generally has to present ID to get a box, and the comings and goings of people into those boxes are carefully documented. It's still no guarantee that your box couldn't become the target of a search warrant, but it's also going to be a lot easier for the courts and law enforcement to narrow the focus of their investigation if a safety deposit box's contents came into question.

    Mike
    I take a little bit of issue with this. Search warrants are supposed to be particular about what is being sought, and where. You can't say "a house in this neighborhood," or "all houses in this neighborhood" just because that neighborhood is a "hive for that sort of activity," as you wrote regarding the business. You have to say "this particular house at 1234 Main St., Podunk, LA, U.S.A.," or "boxes number 3, 7, 22, and 55, all seen being accessed by 'John Particular', known target of the drug-dealing operation, suspected to contain drugs, money, and maybe guns, etc., etc." As you said, a narrow focus. So if the feds knew particular criminals were storing things in particular boxes, those can be targeted by a warrant. A simple test of sending an agent in undercover to rent a box as a private citizen would prove that anyone could rent there, and therefore people other than their particular targets would have property there, and an expectation of privacy in their property and affairs. To apply for a blanket warrant to just grab anything there no matter who it belongs to is shoddy police work, and to sign said warrant is shoddy on the judge's part.

    Then, making someone jump through hoops, even file a lawsuit, to get their property back, having no specific basis to declare it contraband, that is horribly abusive. Imagine agents seizing all the luggage on a plane because there might be drugs, stolen property, or some other form of contraband in some of the suitcases. Then, they tell you to prove you own your clothes, toiletries, and camera if you want them back. Prove to the state you're innocent, instead of them proving you're guilty.

    You or I might not personally choose to store $60K and our stash of gold in a private business, and question the wisdom of it, but that doesn't alter the constitutional questions raised by the government's actions in seizing it the way they did, and if they don't turn this guy's property back over to him.

    I think we're close to the same page on this, it just seemed a bit dismissive of the procedural and constitutional errors or abuses I perceive in this incident.
    Last edited by Kraut; April 15th, 2021 at 11:41 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    So it’s your belief that something placed in a bank safe deposit box is safe from theft or loss?

    https://youtu.be/qVfpxJVY6-Q

    https://youtu.be/Ut9a1lVP344

    https://youtu.be/2NXLT39Xerk
    I consider something placed in a safe deposit box within a mainstream bank to be reasonably safe from theft or loss. Any mainstream bank will have a policy in place where customers cannot be left unattended in the safe deposit box room (where someone could theoretically attempt to pick/force entry into other boxes). The chances of someone breaking into the vault/box are incredibly minimal.

    Is it a guarantee of security, no. But there is no such thing as a guarantee of security. There is no where that you can put valuables that a thief cannot access if dedicated enough.

    I watched your videos:
    1) Two boxes were missing. Small sample, not indicative of a systemic problem. People shouldn't keep 43k in cash anywhere besides deposited in an insured bank or invested. If a bank burns down, paper cash burns up and isn't FDIC insured.

    2) A bank contractor moved the boxes elsewhere and had a logistics problem. The chances of a bank moving boxes are also very, very, very slim. This is a one-off.

    3) I argue that there is likely more to the story. The bank probably did its due diligence to contact the owners of the box to let them know that they needed to do ABC and they were likely difficult. I can tell you that I personally saw cases where boxes had to be drilled due to non-payment. We did everything possible to get in touch with the customer and most of the time they just didn't care. Sometimes we even had customers just tell us they decided not to pay and to do whatever with the box and its contents. In this case, I find it unlikely that the folks weren't aware that they needed to do something, but it's possible, and if so, it is again a one-off situation that is rare.

    We can find needle in a haystack cases for any system in life. A needle in the haystack doesn't mean the system is broken or even flawed. Airbags sometimes just don't go off in cars and people die as a result. I still trust my airbag to work even though there is a possibility that it may not.

    Food processing is generally effective, but there is always a risk I could catch a rare bacterial infection and die.

    Airplanes generally fly without shedding broken parts, but sometimes a part flies off a plane and kills a person walking down the street. I still fly in airplanes and I still walk down the street.

    So, yes, I argue that safe boxes are a good option for storing valuables, especially for people who have a need to have it. Sometimes people are in abusive relationships and need a safe spot to keep their things. Some people can't afford a safe at their house / apartment and want to keep things safe.

    Will it be a 100% perfectly safe solution to store something, no, but that's because that solution doesn't exist. It's a hell of a lot better than most options out there, though. It's much more likely that someone will break into a house or garage and steal a safe vs breaking into a bank vault and then break into safe boxes...
    -- Austin

    "There is no "i" in team but there is in win. "
    --Michael Jordan


    Failing to plan is planning to fail.

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  5. #25
    Donít troll me bro!

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    All these isolated incidents opened my eyes. I won’t suffer a false sense of security. I posted a few more vids of more isolated incidents btw. Just in case anyone else wants to know.
    Last edited by Magdump; April 15th, 2021 at 07:49 PM.
    Doesnít play well with TROLLS...

  6. #26
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    All these isolated incidents opened my eyes. I won’t suffer a false sense of security. I posted a few more vids of more isolated incidents btw. Just in case anyone else wants to know.
    So, where are you going to store your valuables instead?

    What you're engaging in is a well-known psychological phenomenon called "confirmation bias." It means that we (as humans) tend to give more credibility to evidence that supports our beliefs, and we tend to dismiss evidence that contradicts our beliefs.

    You decided, for whatever reason, that safety deposit boxes aren't safe. You found a few YouTube videos that support this belief (because everyone knows that YouTube is the irrefutable source of the truth), and you're now shouting from the rooftops about the dangers of safety deposit boxes.

    Let's step back from this and get some relevant context. To wit: millions of Americans store all manner of things (lawful and otherwise) in safety deposit boxes—in some cases, for decades on end—and they never have an issue. And while lots of safety deposit boxes undoubtedly become the targets of search warrants, it's the case that those warrants are executed without disturbing anyone else's safety deposit boxes or their contents.

    Does that mean that safety deposit boxes are perfect? Of course not ... as Austin said, the contents of a safety deposit box aren't protected in the same manner that a cash deposit is protected in an account (vis-a-vis the FDIC), and as the videos you posted show, bad things can happen to good people. The probability of your stuff going missing from a safety deposit box is astronomically small, though, and I'd love to hear where you think it would be safer to store valuables.

    By the way: your homeowners policy may cover some, or all of the valuables that you are/were storing in a safety deposit box. It may be worth asking your insurance agent about this.

    Mike
    ΦΒΚ. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

  7. #27
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraut View Post
    I think we're close to the same page on this, it just seemed a bit dismissive of the procedural and constitutional errors or abuses I perceive in this incident.
    I don't doubt that there are some legitimate constitutional issues with this, and I sincerely hope that the innocents in this case got the justice that they deserved.

    But these issues don't obfuscate many layers of bad decision making. For the sake of opening a simple savings account, his money would have been safe and sound, FDIC insured, and generating some interest ... and not in the hands of federal drug agents.

    And yes, before I get jumped all over ... I think it's wise to keep some cash around; from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, depending on circumstances. Tens of thousand of dollars? Heavens no.

    Mike
    ΦΒΚ. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

  8. #28
    Marksman

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    They are definitely not safe... I won't go near one.

    https://6abc.com/cheltenham-mall-ind...ounty/1820871/

  9. #29
    Donít troll me bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaleighReloader View Post
    So, where are you going to store your valuables instead?

    What you're engaging in is a well-known psychological phenomenon called "confirmation bias." It means that we (as humans) tend to give more credibility to evidence that supports our beliefs, and we tend to dismiss evidence that contradicts our beliefs.

    You decided, for whatever reason, that safety deposit boxes aren't safe. You found a few YouTube videos that support this belief (because everyone knows that YouTube is the irrefutable source of the truth), and you're now shouting from the rooftops about the dangers of safety deposit boxes.

    Let's step back from this and get some relevant context. To wit: millions of Americans store all manner of things (lawful and otherwise) in safety deposit boxes—in some cases, for decades on end—and they never have an issue. And while lots of safety deposit boxes undoubtedly become the targets of search warrants, it's the case that those warrants are executed without disturbing anyone else's safety deposit boxes or their contents.

    Does that mean that safety deposit boxes are perfect? Of course not ... as Austin said, the contents of a safety deposit box aren't protected in the same manner that a cash deposit is protected in an account (vis-a-vis the FDIC), and as the videos you posted show, bad things can happen to good people. The probability of your stuff going missing from a safety deposit box is astronomically small, though, and I'd love to hear where you think it would be safer to store valuables.

    By the way: your homeowners policy may cover some, or all of the valuables that you are/were storing in a safety deposit box. It may be worth asking your insurance agent about this.

    Mike
    I’m shouting from the rooftops?
    What are you doing then? Uh huh...
    No confirmation bias here but that sure seems to be the phrase of the day. It’s sounding a lot like ‘conspiracy theory’. I believe you’re engaging in the other side of your phenomenon. Point fingers and call names until people stop talking. I could continue to post stories of real people who have lost their belongings because of mishandling of the boxes, boxes broken into, boxes moved to other locations etc but I’m gonna do exactly as you’ve suggested.
    I’m gonna step away from this. We’ve already ascertained that safe deposit boxes are not exactly safe, just as the title states. I’ll be danged, look at that.

    Btw, your statement of sarcasm about YouTube videos, does that apply to all the YouTube videos that everyone on this site has offered up as information on any particular subject? Or are you referring to just the ones that I post?
    Last edited by Magdump; April 16th, 2021 at 07:42 AM.
    Doesnít play well with TROLLS...

  10. #30
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    Point fingers and call names until people stop talking.
    Talk away — I've made no attempt to silence you, nor have I called you any names. I've been critical of some of your theories, but isn't that the whole point of debate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    I could continue to post stories of real people who have lost their belongings because of mishandling of the boxes, boxes broken into, boxes moved to other locations etc but I’m gonna do exactly as you’ve suggested.
    Sure—as I said before, you can always find examples of this. There are millions of safety deposit boxes in the country, and you will always be able to find a few examples of things that went wrong.

    That doesn't mean that there's an epidemic of problems, or that there's a greater statistical probability that you'll lose your valuables by placing them in a box. Handpicking a few examples of a rare phenomenon and then making a blanket assertion is the poster child of "cognitive bias."

    Quote Originally Posted by Magdump View Post
    Btw, your statement of sarcasm about YouTube videos, does that apply to all the YouTube videos that everyone on this site has offered up as information on any particular subject? Or are you referring to just the ones that I post?
    YouTube is an entertainment service. Since anyone can post videos there, there's absolutely no guarantee that what you're viewing has any credibility or legitimacy. And content creators have long known that controversial content, or content intended to get people riled up generally gets lots of traffic. Because of this, I take everything I watch on YouTube with a lot of grains of salt.

    If I was going to form an opinion about where to store my valuables, I'd look elsewhere for a qualified and more objective opinion.

    Mike
    ΦΒΚ. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

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