220v question

kcinnick · May 6, 2012

I have a 220v line running to a disconnect box to the back of my house that was formally for a hot tub. I want to move the line and disconnect inside my garage and run some 220v outlets to run some 220v tools. Can I run more than 1 220 v outlet off of that breaker? It is a 50a breaker, so it should be able to handle a pretty big load, but I want to stay safe. There is a very good chance that more than one tool would be on at once, but adding the total watts together at max draw wouldn't begin to approach 75% of the 50a rating.

Thanks

Leadfoot · May 6, 2012

You should be fine, unless one of the tools is like a welder or something.

kcinnick · May 6, 2012

Nope, no welding in my near future. I am thinking the 50A is way overrated for what I need, but it is already there, and I even have the disconnect box. I figure I can move the disconnect box to the garage and run 4 outlets so I don't have to plug stuff in and out all the time, it is a small move and I don't have to do much wiring work to get 220 to my garage and shop.

Even if I did get a welder, would I be OK if that was the only tool running? I have no plans of getting one.

edman87k5 · May 6, 2012

Depends on the welder. I would use a drop box with separate breakers for each piece of equipment myself.
Much safer and only a few extra bucks to do.

dhfischerjr · May 7, 2012

Most welders require a 60Amp line. All of the welding outlets in my shop have dedicated breakers.

Yrdawg · May 7, 2012

Make sure the wire from your source is rated for 50A . Wire size and breaker size for each outlet need to be same rating. You can run a circuit with several outlets on one breaker as long as the wire size is correct. Also you probably don't have a neutral and ground in the configuration so don't look to add any 115v loads in this. If you ever expect to sell you might want to make sure whatever you do is up to code for future inspections.

You might be happier in the long run coming from home panel with 4 wire 60 a ckt to a new sub panel in your shop.

jmaroon · May 7, 2012

breakers are cheap and easy to change.. if you don't need 50 amps, go to home depot and get another 220 breaker rated more for what your going to use.. it'll be cheaper than running #6 wire to an air compressor when all you need is 8g (30 amps)or 10g.. (20 amps).. or like one poster said.. run a sub panel off of the 50a 220..

jimdana1942 · May 7, 2012

Shady Dealer said:
You should be fine, unless one of the tools is like a welder or something.

This.

kcinnick · May 7, 2012

Yrdawg said:
Make sure the wire from your source is rated for 50A . Wire size and breaker size for each outlet need to be same rating. You can run a circuit with several outlets on one breaker as long as the wire size is correct. Also you probably don't have a neutral and ground in the configuration so don't look to add any 115v loads in this. If you ever expect to sell you might want to make sure whatever you do is up to code for future inspections.

You might be happier in the long run coming from home panel with 4 wire 60 a ckt to a new sub panel in your shop.

jmaroon said:
breakers are cheap and easy to change.. if you don't need 50 amps, go to home depot and get another 220 breaker rated more for what your going to use.. it'll be cheaper than running #6 wire to an air compressor when all you need is 8g (30 amps)or 10g.. (20 amps).. or like one poster said.. run a sub panel off of the 50a 220..

I will probably get a new panel in the next couple of years when I get some other upgrades done, I just figured this was a cheap and easy way to get a few 220 outlets for now.

The wire is pretty thick, I haven't checked the gauge of the wire, but it was running a pretty large hot tub I had removed when I bought the house.

cajun 22 · May 7, 2012

More than likely the wire is a 6/3 with ground for a hot tub. Turn the breaker off, open the disc., check to see if there is a black/red/white/bare ground in the box. If so you can relocate this wire to the garage and install a small panel. Then you can run the proper size line to each device you wish to run and install the proper size breaker also. Just remember to get a panel with two ground bars and bond one to the panel for the ground. The other will not be bonded to the panel and all of the neutral/white wires will go here if you need a 110v line.

kcinnick · May 7, 2012

cajun 22 said:
More than likely the wire is a 6/3 with ground for a hot tub. Turn the breaker off, open the disc., check to see if there is a black/red/white/bare ground in the box. If so you can relocate this wire to the garage and install a small panel. Then you can run the proper size line to each device you wish to run and install the proper size breaker also. Just remember to get a panel with two ground bars and bond one to the panel for the ground. The other will not be bonded to the panel and all of the neutral/white wires will go here if you need a 110v line.

That is the type of line it has. It had a wire going to a grounding rod when I removed the wiring coming from the disconnect to where the hot tub was located. I just left the rest of the wiring in place.

So I can wire this hotub wire to my garage (well car port, with shop on the side, looking at enclosing options now, some type of door or wall), instead of putting it to a disconnect and running one circuit I can put in a panel with 4 breakers as long as the total doesn't exceed 50a? The slot says 70a max, but has a 50a GFIC breaker, if I were to go with 4 15a breakers would it be as easy as just switching the breaker to 60a? the run is going to be about 50% or more shorter than the current run, so I should have plenty of wire left over to work with, and I still have the wires that ran from the house to the hot tub.

mpl006 · May 7, 2012

You could put in 4 15 amp breakers in the new panel while leaving the main breaker at 50 A. The total amount of the breakers in the panel does not have to be less than the breaker feeding the panel, you just would not be able to run all circuits to full rating if the total branch circuits does exceed the main. If you raise the 50 A to 60 you would possibly have to upgrade the wire size.

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cajun 22 · May 7, 2012

Just count the number of circuits that you want to run. If you need three 220v lines you would need at least 6 circuits. You can get a 12 circuit main lug panel and run the lines you need. It will be derated to the amperage of the breaker, in your main panel, feeding the hot tub line. You won't need a main if it is 6 or less movements of the hand (breakers). You won't need GFCI breakers if the plugs are for dedicated service i.e., table saw, planer, air.comp., and such. You only need GFCI for general use 110v recepticals, if it is in a garage or open to the outside. 50amps per leg is a lot of juice to pull. It could happen but how many tools can you operate at once?

kcinnick · May 7, 2012

mpl006 said:
You could put in 4 15 amp breakers in the new panel while leaving the main breaker at 50 A. The total amount of the breakers in the panel does not have to be less than the breaker feeding the panel, you just would not be able to run all circuits to full rating if the total branch circuits does exceed the main. If you raise the 50 A to 60 you would possibly have to upgrade the wire size.

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cajun 22 said:
Just count the number of circuits that you want to run. If you need three 220v lines you would need at least 6 circuits. You can get a 12 circuit main lug panel and run the lines you need. It will be derated to the amperage of the breaker, in your main panel, feeding the hot tub line. You won't need a main if it is 6 or less movements of the hand (breakers). You won't need GFCI breakers if the plugs are for dedicated service i.e., table saw, planer, air.comp., and such. You only need GFCI for general use 110v recepticals, if it is in a garage or open to the outside. 50amps per leg is a lot of juice to pull. It could happen but how many tools can you operate at once?

Awesome.

I only needed 1 220v outlet, but then it was suggested that I could run more than one from that line, and I just wanted to confirm. Two will be much more convenient, but if I am going to put two, I might as well go with as many as I can get so I have options in the future. All the 220v lines will be in the shop portion, the carport is not enclosed to a garage yet, but will be in the future. 4 15's should be plenty since the shop space is only 6'X20'. Why oh why did they not make it at least 8' wide I will never understand.

I am not using your typical shop tools, as my hobbies don't use typical shop tools, but a 220 Air Compressor is on the list along with a 220 Convection oven.

kcinnick · May 23, 2012

I have 6 AWG cable coming in. Can I replace the 50a breaker with a 60a breaker? I would also like to have 6 outlets, would it be best to put each one on its own breaker in a breaker box, some will need 30a, some only need 15a. I will never use everything at once, I just want the flexibility to have the outlets where I need them without having move things around or plug and unplug different outlets.

Thanks

whitsend · May 23, 2012

Depends on the length of the wire run. Should be ok for a wire run of 200' or less.

Try this calculator: http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html

VeedUp · May 23, 2012

kcinnick said:
i have 6 awg cable coming in. Can i replace the 50a breaker with a 60a breaker? i would also like to have 6 outlets, would it be best to put each one on its own breaker in a breaker box, some will need 30a, some only need 15a. I will never use everything at once, i just want the flexibility to have the outlets where i need them without having move things around or plug and unplug different outlets.

Thanks

yes you can, you need to run a sub panel as suggested above earlier so you can run your 120 outlets off of the service you have.

kcinnick · May 23, 2012

VeedUp said:
yes you can, you need to run a sub panel as suggested above earlier so you can run your 120 outlets off of the service you have.

Everything new will be 220. I already have 110 ran. What do I do with the extra ground wire? it was there to go to a grounding rod, do I need to to something with it or can I leave it alone?

Hitman · May 23, 2012

kcinnick said:
I just figured this was a cheap and easy way to get a few 220 outlets for now.
.

kcinnick said:
Awesome.
I only needed 1 220v outlet, but then it was suggested that I could run more than one from that line,

I'm pretty sure you are getting some bad information here.

I say this b/c I moved my Laundry Room into a portable shed outside the home. Had to run a 220 for the Dryer.
Then we wanted to put a 220 A/C w Heater so the shed is temp controlled.

I was told by an electrician, and my father-n-law who also runs wire, that I should NOT just tap into the 220 outlet and make another outlet for the A/C to plug into. I was told I would have ot run a completely new 220 line.

The reason;
1- Say it's a 50 Amp breaker and the dryer is taking up half that are more already, when the A/C kicks on *boom* Breaker Trips. Tripping breakers is a safety of course but not something you want to make a habit of and you better hope it does trip b/c if it doesn't you'll have a serious problem on your hands and you might find out once your box explodes and the house is on fire. Not being scary, I work with some electricians and they tell REAL stories all the time.
2- Now it is possible to have two 220 outlets off one line "IF" you have the proper size wire that will then allow you to put a 100 Amp breaker for that circuit.

What you need to do is simple. Call a local electrician, tell him what you want to do and see what he says or if he'll drop by and take a look.

*NOTE* I just hung the phone up with the head A/C Tech & Electrician for Fort Polk. He reassured me of all what I just posted.

Your case could be different, he's a nice fellow if you want his number PM me and you can call him yourself.

...and to be honest the LAST place I would look to for advice on Electricity is the INTERWEBZ

VeedUp · May 23, 2012

I don't think anyone told him to run the 220 outlets in series with one another, he can definitely run a 60amp breaker on the #6 and put a small sub panel in and run a compressor and something else off of it, but without really looking at it and seeing his panel and all its hard to really give good advice, but hot tubs and anything that uses a heating element draws a lot of amps. so it would need a large breaker for an oven(60 or 50 amp) or something like a heater, unless its something small like a water heater which most can run on a 30amp breaker. I was just answering the one question about the #6 handling a 60 amp breaker, but he should definitely consult with a professional before trying to tackle it himself.

220v question

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