AR Build Step 1: Planning

spanky · Sep 22, 2006

This is what I'd like to accomplish

This rifle, an eotech, same 4 rail guard, same rail covers, and a buis (i like the wilson combat) but with either a hogue or magpul miad grip.

this front grip

this adjustable stock

Now is where I call upon your help. Can anyone give me some brand names and what not for me to start shopping around? Should I just buy a stag upper and lower and customize with above or do a full build? i'm definitely not against building at all.

spanky · Sep 22, 2006

what do you guys know about these kits?

http://www.del-ton.com/detail.aspx?ID=1104

that kit looks complete minus a stripped lower. i could get one of those for < 100 on gunbroker and that puts me < 600 for the whole thing, right?

would i be better off doing that and then upgrading the stock/gas block/front rail, etc and selling off the stuff or upgrading from that site?

CavalryJim · Sep 22, 2006

spanky said:
what do you guys know about these kits?

http://www.del-ton.com/detail.aspx?ID=1104

would i be better off doing that and then upgrading the stock/gas block/front rail, etc and selling off the stuff or upgrading from that site?

Hard to say without looking around at prices. I tend to watch for good deals, group buys, etc. I also receive mailings from Century, AIM Surplus, Brownells, Midway....and several others. Fairly often, you can get really good deals if you just wait. Sometimes the distributors will have a sale on things like blemished barrels. I bought two blemished varmint-style barrels from Century for $100 shipped. If you are into 10/22s, I got another good deal on a barrel by contacting Whistle Pig directly and purchasing a barrel they said was blemished (I examined it and couldn’t find a single flaw).

Here are some of the retailers I have used:

http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/index.php
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/index
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=204663

FWIW, many of these retailer give military/leo discounts.

gunz4me · Sep 23, 2006

So you want a Tango Down VFG with a Ace SOCOM stock?

Go with a LMT 14.5" 1/7 M4 upper w/ PERM Vortex or other Flash hider to get you to 16". Pick your bolt and carrier for this upper. I had a spare CMMG lying around for my last build, and it works great in my LMT 14.5" 1/7 upper.

Pick your lower (if you go with EA, make sure you get the tuffcoat because the regular anodized lower is closer to Colt Gray whereas the black tuffcoat is closer to everyone's black)

Pick your LPK (I like Armalite, but had trouble finding Armilite and went with a CMMG LPK on my last two lower builds)

I recommend the Magpul MIAD full kit and would put them on all my rifles if I had more money.

Daniel Defense rails (or Troy). YHM if you want "economy".

Although I find the concept of kit guns to be very economical, I am always concerned that certain dealers are skimping somewhere to be several hundred dollars less than other manufacturers. At one time Model 1 and DelTon were considered bottom feeders with regards to the quality of their parts. I don't know if this has changed or not but the bad rep from the past has caused me to not consider them now.

Heck, I even had problems with a J&T distributing upper that was replaced with a brand new upper under warranty. My last J&T upper had a out of spec gas tube and a leaking carrier key. The sad thing is up until that point, I used to highly recommend J&T for being ultra reliable out of the box. Granted, I am sure that anyone can do a bad job on any given day. It was just upsetting to have it happen to me. YMMV

spanky · Sep 24, 2006

it took me 10 pages on the arfcom picture thread but i found the rifle i want to build

ruppert said:
Here's my little RRA carbine. It's getting there, slowly but surely!

Mods so far:

Midwest Industries railed forend
TangoDown VFG
ERGO Tactical Deluxe grip
ACE M4 SOCOM stock
Troy flip-up BUIS

Next...dunno. Maybe a light and/or an optic of some sort, but I kinda like it the way it is right now. We'll see.

only thing i'd change is the grip, add an ambi sling mount and maybe the front sight to a 4 rail gas block and flip up sight

CavalryJim · Sep 24, 2006

Nice!

With the 16" barrel, I prefer the midlength gas system. Having owned a both (16" with carbine length gas system & midlength), I found the midlength to not only look better but it had less 'kick'....not that the 5.56/.223 has much anyway. Plus, you will be able to use GI bayonets!

spanky · Sep 24, 2006

I think you're right on the midlength, plus it'd give a longer sight radius. Now I have to start ordering parts.

glockboy98 · Sep 26, 2006

the midlength is less abusive to the rifle than a carbine gas system. And you should go for a 16 inch barrel because its more or less pointless to have a 14.5 inch upper because it doesn't do much better for cqc which hopefully you wont be involved in and certainly doesn't help the range or ballistics of the 5.56 round.

topgunz1 · Sep 28, 2006

after more searching (yes i was bored in class)...

Stag upper, 16" flat top chrome lined M4, with ARMS #40 flip up rear

Stag lower, ???? lower parts kit (RRA 2 stage? normal ole nothin fancy? jury is still out on this one) no clue on grip, just a hogue would be fine with me... standard 4 or 6 position stock.

Free float railed front, eotech, and a light would follow, but that'd be later.

think that'd put it in the 700's range for price, and could be spread out. biggest chunk is upper, around 4-500.

or... complete stag upper w/6 pos stock, stag lpk for 629 shipped off ar15.com, stag lower for 105ish... complete rifle for mid 700's?

hickman · Oct 3, 2006

My AR was built from parts.
Stag Lower- around $100

RRA LPK, mine was $55 for the standard, if you go this route get the NM trigger and have it worked over by White Oak Armory, well worth the money, mine has a JP Enterprises adjustable trigger, that is about $140.

DPMS upper $450 shipped from AR15.com equipment exchange, 20" HBAR, freefloat system, 6 20rd mags and BUIS

bought a 20" Colt Gov't profile for $200

I swapped the HBAR for a Mueller Tactical 4-16x50 scope, $250 per Mueller, the barrel assy goes for $179 new from DPMS, so I am about $100 up on the swap.

Also have an ERGO grip on mine $18

Basically, if I had been content to run it as I originally built it, I would have
$18+$100+$55+$450=$623 into it in total

as it sits now I have a bit more in it.

around $910 not counting all the extra mags I have, and it is the way I want it, with the exception of the A2 stock, which is getting pulled in a couple of weeks for an E2 stock I've got coming for $15.

So around $925 total invested, including scope and rings.

You can get an EA lower, built in Krotz Springs LA, for around $100, and get a carbine kit from Model 1 Sales for around $450, add the stock, VFG, and RAS as you want later. You could also get a Stag lower,for around $100, choose your LPK, decide on an upper, Stag comes to mind due to reputation, and what ever accessories you want RAS, VFG, etc, and spend a bit more, but end up with what you really want in the first place. And if you need help putting it together, come on up to Alexandria, and I will help you.

hickman · Oct 3, 2006

Oh yeah, I second the motion for a mid-length gas system, it does cut down on the options for uppers, but it is worth it IMHO.

The question no one has asked yet is, "What is the intended use of the rifle?"
CQB drills, target shooting, home defense, etc.

spanky · Oct 4, 2006

target and HD

with a little hunting mixed in.

topgunz1 · Oct 4, 2006

RRA entry tactical or built stag upper/lower.... not sure if stag is chrome lined, rra comes with nm trigger...

built stag 750ish, rra=860

spanky · Oct 4, 2006

for ~850 i'd buy a stag upper from jkiser on arfcom with the yhm 4 rail front end (579) and then a stag lower with the magpul full kit (277) from the same guy

that upper comes with a rear buis

topgunz1 · Oct 4, 2006

the stag upper with flip buis is like 630 shipped IIRC with LPK. I dont think I want a quad rail front, I'm not gonna use hardly any of that rail space, so why buy it? YHM makes a light weight Free Float tube and rails of different lengths that bolt onto it, all I'm planning on adding to the handguard is a light anyway. those are around 70-80ish I believe.

anybody know if stag uppers are chrome lined? how are the stag LPK's as well?

spanky · Oct 5, 2006

topgunz1 said:
the stag upper with flip buis is like 630 shipped IIRC with LPK. I dont think I want a quad rail front, I'm not gonna use hardly any of that rail space, so why buy it? YHM makes a light weight Free Float tube and rails of different lengths that bolt onto it, all I'm planning on adding to the handguard is a light anyway. those are around 70-80ish I believe.

anybody know if stag uppers are chrome lined? how are the stag LPK's as well?

complete lower 235 http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=311790
complete upper 485 with flip buis http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=335496

total 720 shipped. just pay for ffl transfer for the lower.

spanky · Oct 5, 2006

heres an RRA kit less stripped receiver with stage 2 trigger for 639
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=342179

topgunz1 · Oct 5, 2006

yeah i saw that as well, add a buis and a receiver and your at mid 800's... can get the complete entry tactical for that and probably sub an arms #40 on it from legal transfers.

topgunz1 · Oct 25, 2006

Stag uppers dont have M4 Feedramps... is that an issue? Could they have feed issues?

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