Parental Rights

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  • Cat

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    On my glass forum this question was presented… Disclaimer: I don't want Dr. Phil so I didn't see the show in question.

    Apparently there was a man and woman on the show, they had a child together. From the get-go, he did not want kids, ever. She did. According to the details, both of their families knew this. Their friends knew this. She was on birth control, wanted a child. He absolutely did not. He trusted her (mistake 1) and she stopped taking the birth control.

    Now she's suing him for child support. He is fighting it tooth and nail with a prominent lawyer because he believes he should have a choice if the woman has the ability to choose without legally having to consider his opinion. (Abortion)



    I kind of have to agree with him. Men get the short end of the stick. The argument against him is that he should have used birth control regardless, or had a vasectomy. Where as she could be using birth control, and even if it fails, still opt to have a surgical procedure to fix the mistake. The vasectomy is insisting that he undergoes irreversible surgery. What's wrong with "not right now"? Or "not with you"? Women aren't removed from their choice because they give an excuse as I'm not ready. Even if she doesn't opt for an abortion, she can legally give the child up for adoption. Here is a man who doesn't have that option.



    At the same time, there are deadbeat fathers who deserve the jail time they receive because they neglect supporting their children. Where do you draw the line here? I understand women pursuing child support in certain cases. Just because it was an "oops" doesn't completely absolve you of responsibility, nor should it. She may not have wanted to be a mom, but she sucked it up and took the responsibility when she could have aborted or placed it for adoption.

    But if you say NO KIDS! before you have sex, as a male you simply do not have the same options as a woman who does.

    It's a little sexist. Just because a hypothetical woman who may not have wanted children opted to proceed, doesn't mean a man shouldn't have that option. He damned sure doesn't get a say so if she wants an abortion.

    Actually it's a lot sexist. I think there should be a legal option to terminate all rights immediately upon learning of an impending birth. But at the same time, that kind of sticks it to the woman when he really does have just as much responsibility here. He shouldn't arbitrarily be able to say "nope, not paying". But he shouldn't have to live without the same choices to terminate parental rights either.

    Instead of pre-nuptial agreements, should there be pre-coital contracts? Is this the answer?
     
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    Cat

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    Oh… A couple details on the original couple.

    They had been dating for years (long term) and as soon as he discovered she was pregnant, he distanced himself from the relationship.
     

    Neil09

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    If he felt that strong about it to go as far as bring up his "point", he could have very easily wore protection. Pay up. Every other man in the world has to. But I do believe the amounts are rediculous on some cases:eek3:
     

    Russo

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    i will apologize up front because i didn't read your entire original post... SORRY!

    if the guy didn't want kids, then why have sex? certainly any attorney could prove that he understood the ramifications of the relations... what if she was on BC and it didn't work? sue the BC company? do we sue gun manufacturers because they create tools that people misuse?
     

    Cat

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    no woman or man should have the right to murder a child.. adoption could be an option if the mother or father cannot raise the child...

    Not discussing ethics. Sorry. wasn't what this question was about.

    Neil, Uncle... I know. I'm on the fence here. Which is why I went back and forth. In the event that he doesn't have the right to terminate rights because of legal responsibilty, then legally she should have to require consent from te father before she gives up the child by any method.
     

    Russo

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    He is fighting it tooth and nail with a prominent lawyer because he believes he should have a choice if the woman has the ability to choose without legally having to consider his opinion. (Abortion)

    make murdering children illegal = solved
     

    Hitman

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    if the guy didn't want kids, then why have sex?

    I agree. Suit up, get the surgery, go without or deal with the consequences.

    If you don't want kids, then it's your responsibility to ensure that you DO NOT produce any.

    Therefore it is also YOUR responsibility for choosing the method in which you plan on preventing this from happening.

    If you do not choose the #1 most absolutely proven method for not producing children (Abstinence), then you indeed take on, or should bear, the full responsibility for your actions.

    Regardless, it F.ing sickens me the nut less cowardice shown by pathetic excuses for males once their own action result in something they are unwilling to take responsibility for. PUNK BITCHES!

    wuuusaaa...... it's a touchy subject for me, I'll probably have to veer from this one Cat.
     

    southlaems

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    Still struggling with the soreness of a cystascope and a vasectomy last Thursday...... He had options..... boy did he have options...
     

    Cat

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    If you don't want kids, then it's your responsibility to ensure that you DO NOT produce any.

    Therefore it is also YOUR responsibility for choosing the method in which you plan on preventing this from happening.

    If you do not choose the #1 most absolutely proven method for not producing children (Abstinence), then you indeed take on, or should bear, the full responsibility for your actions.

    Regardless, it F.ing sickens me the nut less cowardice shown by pathetic excuses for males once their own action result in something they are unwilling to take responsibility for. PUNK BITCHES!

    wuuusaaa...... it's a touchy subject for me, I'll probably have to veer from this one Cat.


    I understand. I agree but.... You know what bugs me. It's the whim of one sex whether or not you have a child. Legally the laws are against your gender.
     

    I_FLY_LOW

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    That was a bad pairing from the get go, period...
    He didn't want kids, she did...
    Go find someone who doesn't want kids...
    You play with fire, you're gonna get burned..
    Sorry, but he's gotta payup...
    It's her decision to keep the baby, or not.
    I'm on the side of giving the child the chance for a full life, vs snuffing it.
     

    charliepapa

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    first of all, I do agree that what the woman did was wrong. that said...

    not sure about the faith of the two players here, but this is the first thing that came into my mind:

    Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Satan? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. (2 Cor. 6:14-16)

    This has also been an illustration used by others in discussions on relationships in general, even regarding two Christians of different denominations. Whether or not you want children is a core belief in my book and the woman was a fool if she couldn't see through a guy who would drop her like a two foot putt because she got pregnant. That's not love. The only way to ensure 100% birth control is abstinence. Abortion does NOT = birth control.
     

    Hitman

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    I understand. I agree but.... You know what bugs me. It's the whim of one sex whether or not you have a child. Legally the laws are against your gender.

    The whole situation is jacked up.

    If you cause a carrying mother to loose her child (Accidentally or on purpose) you will go to jail on a 2nd Degree Murder or Manslaughter Charge for killing a baby. Same applies if the father kills the baby too.

    If mom wants to kill the baby, no problem, just make an appointment and screw what the father thinks.

    What the !?!
     
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    Trachito

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    it sucks but he has to be fully responsible for his part. he should have strapped up. i learned from experience never to put birth control completely in the woman's hands. i love my kid to death and i take very good care of him, but i hate that i was deceived and never had a choice on creating a child. i take all precautions now and don't trust any woman with my future.
     

    SGT_Kramer

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    I think that in court if a man can prove he was straight up lied to or tricked he should not have to pay anything unless he wants child rights. I think woman who is lied to or tricked should not have to pay anything unless they want child rights. In which case all funds for raising the child would come from the party responsible. I know it would be hard to prove most times but with cases of admission would be clear cut. IT JUST SEEMS TO SIMPLE AND FAIR TO BE LAW THOUGH!
     

    LA_Huntsman

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    Sep 15, 2006
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    First off... is this the guy with 30 kids? No... ok... yeah he's screwed but then again who said life's fair? You do the poke? You pay the toke! Plain and simple.
     
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