What is your go-to home defense weapon?

The Best online firearms community in Louisiana.

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • What do you choose for home defense?


    • Total voters
      58

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,791
    113
    That's all good and fine, and its never a bad move to get more training, but using ambient light and leaving my light off is my preferred method until there is no other option. What is yours?

    I'm just curious, have you ever taken a low light firearm class or are you basing your opinion off of personal exploration of your house in the dark?

    If the latter is the case, it's not wrong and it's better than most people have done, so long as you have thought it out and trained with it, but it's certainly not best.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    I'm just curious, have you ever taken a low light firearm class or are you basing your opinion off of personal exploration of your house in the dark?

    If the latter is the case, it's not wrong and it's better than most people have done, so long as you have thought it out and trained with it, but it's certainly not best.

    Yeah no I haven’t had a course in low light. I practice moving about in verying conditions in my house and I a often move afield in the dark. I like to use as little light as possible because light in a dark environment is hard to contain. A lesson learned from hunting is you have a much better shot moving in extremely close (couple of yards close) to animals undetected by using the dark.

    I’m sure some of my hunting experience is laughable to some but I will point out the animal kingdom is full of predators and prey both are massively more attuned to their environment than a burglar in my house. So I feel there is plenty to learn from nature.

    Thats also not to say low light courses would not be helpful.
     
    Last edited:

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,791
    113
    Yeah no I haven’t had a course in low light. I practice moving about in verying conditions in my house and I a often move afield in the dark. I like to use as little light as possible because light in a dark environment is hard to contain. A lesson learned from hunting is you have a much better shot moving in extremely close (couple of yards close) to animals undetected by using the dark.

    I’m sure some of my hunting experience is laughable to some but I will point out the animal kingdom is full of predators and prey both are massively more attuned to their environment than a burglar in my house. So I feel there is plenty to learn from nature.

    Gotcha. I respect that you are doing something, but I do urge you to take formal low light training, especially some that involves Sim rounds.

    There are people and companies who spend a lot of time researching, studying, and developing best practices.

    Practicing bad techniques is similar to studying the wrong material for a test and then expecting to do well on the test. If the information is similar, you may do okay on the test, but you won't pass it with stellar results.

    As for your comment about nature, I disagree. Hunting an animal that is eating grass or feed is very different than defending yourself against someone who intends to do you harm, whether at home or not.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    Gotcha. I respect that you are doing something, but I do urge you to take formal low light training, especially some that involves Sim rounds.

    There are people and companies who spend a lot of time researching, studying, and developing best practices.

    Practicing bad techniques is similar to studying the wrong material for a test and then expecting to do well on the test. If the information is similar, you may do okay on the test, but you won't pass it with stellar results.

    As for your comment about nature, I disagree. Hunting an animal that is eating grass or feed is very different than defending yourself against someone who intends to do you harm, whether at home or not.

    I’m not sure you are all that keen on hunting as you are adventure defensive training. There is a big difference in piling up in a blind or shooting house and getting lucky, and consistently having up close encounters with wild animals.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,712
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Yeah no I haven’t had a course in low light. I practice moving about in verying conditions in my house and I a often move afield in the dark. I like to use as little light as possible because light in a dark environment is hard to contain. A lesson learned from hunting is you have a much better shot moving in extremely close (couple of yards close) to animals undetected by using the dark.

    I’m sure some of my hunting experience is laughable to some but I will point out the animal kingdom is full of predators and prey both are massively more attuned to their environment than a burglar in my house. So I feel there is plenty to learn from nature.

    Thats also not to say low light courses would not be helpful.

    You can learn from nature. But one difference between hunting and home defense is what happens if you get it wrong. In hunting, the animal generally runs away. In a home defense situation, the animal may return fire.

    All people are trying to do is make sure you have as much knowledge as possible so you can make the best decision for your specific situation. Some people just have a better delivery than others. If you gain more knowledge and decide your preference is the best for your situation, great. You're still good and you have more tools to use for other situations. But if the new knowledge shows some deficiencies in your preferences, you're better able to adjust as needed.
     
    Last edited:

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    You can learn from nature. But one difference between hunting and home defense is what happens if you get it wrong. In hunting, the animal generally runs away. In a home defense situation, the animal may return fire.

    Noted and I can attest to that I had a rather close encounter with a very large cat +60lbs by my estimate, and it made me and was gone. We have had some coyotes willing to push the boundaries though. But they don’t shoot guns at least not the ones I mess with.

    All people are trying to do is make sure you have as much knowledge as possible so you can make the best decision for your specific situation. Some people just have a better delivery than others. If you gain more knowledge and decide your preference is the best for your situation, great. You're still good and you have more tools to use for other situations. But if the new knowledge shows some deficiencies in your preferences, you're better able to adjust as needed.

    That would be nice, I’m not sure how what I asked cake across as ‘f-you I’ll do what I want’ but I guess it did. My intent was to see what others do. I’ve strategized that so long as I have power and the 80billion nightlights as well as ambient light from the outside provide me with enough light to move about my flashlight will remain off until it’s absolutely necessary. I would certainly be interested to know why that seems like a bad idea to some but maybe I’ll have to pay to find out.
     
    Last edited:

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,791
    113
    Noted and I can attest to that I had a rather close encounter with a very large cat +60lbs by my estimate, and it made me and was gone. We have had some coyotes willing to push the boundaries though. But they don’t shoot guns at least not the ones I mess with.



    That would be nice, I’m not sure how what I asked cake across as ‘f-you I’ll do what I want’ but I guess it did. My intent was to see what others do. I’ve strategized that so long as I have power and the 80billion nightlights as well as ambient light from the outside provide me with enough light to move about my flashlight will remain off until it’s absolutely necessary. I would certainly be interested to know why that seems like a bad idea to some but maybe I’ll have to pay to find out.

    Wild animals aren't comparable to humans who have made the conscious decision to cause others harm.

    You really should pay the money for formal low-light, close-quarters training. It's really not even that expensive compared to other classes out there. I think that a Sims low-light class will be incredibly eye-opening for you.

    It's the same as preparing your whole life for a boxing match by only punching a bag. Yes, you may get strong, fast, and good at hitting the bag, but everything changes whenever you get hit in the nose for the first time and the bag is now a person moving who intends to harm you. Your first time doing any Sim class, you will absolutely be shot repeatedly and be wowed. It's not a game, like some have noted above - it's a dose of reality that hits pretty damn hard.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    Personally, I seek formal training. I'd rather pay an expert than spend hours attempting to learn something new that isn't new at all.

    Dude I’m working really hard not to be an ass. Apparently I come across that way. But throw me a bone it’s hard to take you seriously. I ask ‘great gun guru what when do you cut your light on’. You say ‘I take classes were people shoot at me in the dark so I know the right time and place and position to use light’.

    What are you selling classes. You are starting sound like one of those buy and sell real estate gurus.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    Damn. Did you miss your afternoon nap?

    No. It was asked what others do and that's what I do. I attend training when I want to learn.

    I formed that opinion after finding out the hard way. There is not much in the shooting world that is new. Things work because they do. It's that simple. Training evolves, but old techniques are often rehashed with a new spin on them. As technology advances, some things may change, but often times the basics haven't changed.

    At one point in time I thought pistol optics were the devil. Then I listened to a podcast where a few instructors were talking about the RDS they were putting on rifles in the 80's, later placing RDS on pistols in the early 90's. I gave it a shot, put thousands of rounds through an optic equipped pistol, and formed an opinion from my experience. Now I see the value.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    Dude I’m working really hard not to be an ass. Apparently I come across that way. But throw me a bone it’s hard to take you seriously. I ask ‘great gun guru what when do you cut your light on’. You say ‘I take classes were people shoot at me in the dark so I know the right time and place and position to use light’.

    What are you selling classes. You are starting sound like one of those buy and sell real estate gurus.

    Don't take it as a personal attack.

    I don't care to waste the time and effort to attempt to learn something that has already been learned some time ago by others. I would rather have a quality credible instructor explain, demonstrate, and be there to help with the learning process. Having taken numerous classes from many instructors, I see the value in it. It does not bother me if you do not see value in it, because I did not see the value of training until I trained.
     

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,791
    113
    I think this thread is a great example of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

    In 2011, David Dunning wrote about his observations that people with substantial, measurable deficits in their knowledge or expertise lack the ability to recognize those deficits and, therefore, despite potentially making error after error, tend to think they are performing competently when they are not: "In short, those who are incompetent, for lack of a better term, should have little insight into their incompetence—an assertion that has come to be known as the Dunning–Kruger effect". In 2014, Dunning and Helzer described how the Dunning–Kruger effect "suggests that poor performers are not in a position to recognize the shortcomings in their performance"

    You don't realize how poor your (anything related to shooting/tactics/anything in life) skills are until you see/learn from someone more competent (subject matter expert).

    As Dave said recently: You don't know what you don't know.
     

    Bangswitch

    Well-Known Member
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 10, 2019
    2,221
    38
    a location near you
    Don't take it as a personal attack.

    I don't care to waste the time and effort to attempt to learn something that has already been learned some time ago by others. I would rather have a quality credible instructor explain, demonstrate, and be there to help with the learning process. Having taken numerous classes from many instructors, I see the value in it. It does not bother me if you do not see value in it, because I did not see the value of training until I trained.

    Well I give up. I was polite, then an ass, then was convinced you might have some valuable knowledge worth share if I ignored your horrible delivery, and now I see you have no intent on sharing your knowledge with us little peons, so have fun.

    One day I hope to be half as cool as whoever this guy is.
     

    AustinBR

    Make your own luck
    Staff member
    Admin
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Oct 22, 2012
    10,791
    113
    Well I give up. I was polite, then an ass, then was convinced you might have some valuable knowledge worth share if I ignored your horrible delivery, and now I see you have no intent on sharing your knowledge with us little peons, so have fun.

    One day I hope to be half as cool as whoever this guy is.

    See my post, above.

    #253:
    https://www.bayoushooter.com/forums...fense-weapon&p=1682141&viewfull=1#post1682141

    Sharing knowledge on a forum isn't the same as being taught skills in person.

    I can watch a ton of videos on how to skateboard and I guarantee you that I will absolutely mess it up until someone shows me in person or helps correct my errors in realtime. Dave is trying to say that training is key to getting better - which I wholeheartedly agree with. His delivery is a bit vague and I don't think he made that point clear.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    Well I give up. I was polite, then an ass, then was convinced you might have some valuable knowledge worth share if I ignored your horrible delivery, and now I see you have no intent on sharing your knowledge with us little peons, so have fun.

    One day I hope to be half as cool as whoever this guy is.

    If your intent was to see what others do, then for me it's to seek training. The answer you're looking for extends beyond a simple sentence or even what can be typed out in a short post. There is simply too much to interpolate into the conversation.

    My question to you is, what do you seek? If your default is to give up when you don't get the answer that you seek, then I can't help you very much.
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,712
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    No. It was asked what others do and that's what I do. I attend training when I want to learn.

    I formed that opinion after finding out the hard way. There is not much in the shooting world that is new. Things work because they do. It's that simple. Training evolves, but old techniques are often rehashed with a new spin on them. As technology advances, some things may change, but often times the basics haven't changed.

    At one point in time I thought pistol optics were the devil. Then I listened to a podcast where a few instructors were talking about the RDS they were putting on rifles in the 80's, later placing RDS on pistols in the early 90's. I gave it a shot, put thousands of rounds through an optic equipped pistol, and formed an opinion from my experience. Now I see the value.

    "Personally, I seek formal training. I'd rather pay an expert than spend hours attempting to learn something new that isn't new at all."

    "I've had some formal training and my situation may not be the same as yours. You'd be better off getting some training than trying to adopt what others do."

    Close to the same message without much more typing. It's in the presentation. Or maybe he wasn't trying to learn a new method. Maybe he was just curious. Maybe he was curious to learn what other chose and why they chose it, kinda like to OP was curious to learn what people chose for home defense and why?
     
    Last edited:

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________
    His delivery is a bit vague and I don't think he made that point clear.

    It is intentional.

    I am not an instructor and cannot offer what a quality instructor can. Learning occurs in many forms, but the ability to perform learned tasks comes with practice. I truly wish I could become a Grand Master by reading a book, but it simply does not work that way.
     

    DAVE_M

    _________
    Rating - 100%
    32   0   0
    Apr 17, 2009
    8,288
    36
    ________

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
    Staff member
    Gold Member
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 28, 2015
    5,712
    113
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Then it is of no use to all.



    Questions seek answers. More questions seek more answers.



    Vague questions often receive vague answers.

    Really? Nothing about your delivery style? It's simple. Talk to people. Stop talking down to people. Right or wrong, you don't encourage learning by talking down to people. It's human nature to become defensive and less receptive when being talked down to. At that point, all the knowledge you may have is lost. But hey...you keep doing you. That's worked so far on here, right?
     

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    195,222
    Messages
    1,546,091
    Members
    29,168
    Latest member
    Lyle.lejeune2017
    Top Bottom